Free GP visits for families by 2015.....I believe it when I see it

Shattered Dreamer

http://www.herald.ie/news/free-gp-visits-for-all-by-2015-minister-2939271.html

Saw this article on Yahoo, somehow I can't see GP's giving anything for free. And the idea that it will allegedly be budgeted for by the Government basically means we'll pay more tax to further line the pockets of the medical profession lol If pay more tax meant better health care I wouldn't mind but this will literally along with the Medical card payments from the government go straight in the GP's pocket.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/news/free-gp-visits-for-all-by-2015-minister-2939271.html

Saw this article on Yahoo, somehow I can't see GP's giving anything for free. And the idea that it will allegedly be budgeted for by the Government basically means we'll pay more tax to further line the pockets of the medical profession lol If pay more tax meant better health care I wouldn't mind but this will literally along with the Medical card payments from the government go straight in the GP's pocket.

So what if taxes go up. There's no such thing as a free lunch and these sort of initiatives cost money. I'd be delighted to see this come in. Health care should be free at the point of use for everybody, just as it is in Britan.

Shattered Dreamer

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

So what if taxes go up. There's no such thing as a free lunch and these sort of initiatives cost money. I'd be delighted to see this come in. Health care should be free at the point of use for everybody, just as it is in Britan.

I'm not complaining about paying more tax I'm complaining about where that tax will go. The only way this won't be a scam that favours the medical profession is if it replaces the medical card. I can't believe you don't see anything wrong with already overpaid doctors getting more money from the government.

Fbjm

Yay, I'm one of the first posts in an AH thread.

*ahem*

Blast them with piss.

Thank you, thank you.

snubbleste

Free GP visits for families by 2015.....
What about singletons, or couples, or widows?

Sulmac

I presume they plan for it to work like the system described in Labour's health policy document from earlier this year (pages 36-37):

How GPs will be paid under universal primary care insurance

Under universal primary care insurance, GPs will be paid as they are currently paid under the medical card system. This means that they will be paid by capitation, a fixed amount for each person on their register in a given year. They will also be able to earn additional fees, as they currently do, for particular services such as vaccination that are public health priorities. Capitation payments will prevent the internationally recognised problem of supplier-induced demand. This can happen when suppliers of health care are paid by fees for each visit, which incentivises doctors to encourage unnecessary visits. Health system experts recognise that this is a particular risk when there is fee payment in a universal system, where doctors receive fees for each visit which are paid by an insurer or the state, without representing an immediate, additional cost to the patient.

Capitation payments along with universal registration of patients with primary care teams will give GPs a secure income. In return for that income and security, there will be a new GP contract, which requires much more active patient management by doctors and the integration of GPs with the rest of the primary care team. Where aspects of care can be safely and appropriately delivered by a practice nurse or other primary care team member, the patient will receive care from such other team members rather than the GP. This will make much better use of the skills that already exist in primary and community care. This also offers a realistic pathway to build up the supply of care despite the current shortage of GPs in Ireland.

This will not be a compulsory system for GPs. If GPs choose to stay outside the system and continue to charge private fees, they may do so. But the entire population will be compulsorily insured under universal primary care insurance; and will be required to register with GPs within the system. GPs within the system will not be allowed to charge fees outside it.

smk89

Great now gp's can spends more time explaining to Mr and Mrs snively nosed brat why he won't be getting an antibiotic for a viral cold.

mackg

you shoul embed the text OP

MANCHESTER City boss Roberto Mancini today insisted Carlos Tevez has played his last game for the club.
Tevez was suspended for two weeks and fined after City found him guilty of five breaches of contract for refusing to warm up in a Champions League match against Bayern Munich.
He flew home to Argentina early last week without permission from City.
Asked today if Tevez could play for the club again, Mancini replied: “I don't think so. “I know he is in Argentina. I don't know what he is doing.”
City are at home to Newcastle tomorrow and Mancini added: “Why are we continuing to talk about Carlos? We have an important game.”

obviously that's not the article, it's just an example.

My name is URL

snubbleste wrote: »

Free GP visits for families by 2015.....
What about singletons, or couples, or widows?

I think it applies to everyone. The thread title is slightly incorrect.

FREE family doctors' visits for all from 2015 is part of a new Government plan, according to minister Roisin Shortall.

Son Of A Vidic

A great idea, assuming of course there will be a 2015. Now where did I leave that roll of tin foil?

gurramok

Better than paying 60quid to rip-off doctors(all docs) just to diagnose you with a cold or flu. Roll on free or even near free GP visits and watch the cartel of these rip-off merchants actually work for a change.

Annabella1

Sounds like utopia....not going to be!
I'm familiar with the nhs in the uk
The era of same day appointments to gp's will be a thing of the past which will increase pressure on hospitals
Anything that is free is open to abuse

RichieC

how will they do this? surely the gubmint wont be giving GP's 60 quid for every visit, so the GP's will stand to lose, and they are wealthy people with more say.

how how how!

mickydoomsux

There was an expert on the radio saying that this can and will happen and it will mean that you'll have to make an appointment a week in advance like you do i n England because we don't have enough GPs in Ireland.

No more wandering in to see the doctor about your crotch rot

Bottle_of_Smoke

Free GPs isn't all its cracked up to be. I have to wait 8 or 9 days to get an appointment.

Should be about 20euro so people don't go for pointless reasons.

Annabella1

gurramok wrote: »

Better than paying 60quid to rip-off doctors(all docs) just to diagnose you with a cold or flu. Roll on free or even near free GP visits and watch the cartel of these rip-off merchants actually work for a change.

Not gp's fault that people choose to attend with self limiting conditions

My name is URL

RichieC wrote: »

how will they do this? surely the gubmint wont be giving GP's 60 quid for every visit, so the GP's will stand to lose, and they are wealthy people with more say.

how how how!

It's supposed to save the state money in the longer term. If diagnoses are made earlier then the cost laden on the exchequer for treatment will be reduced. Or so the legend goes..

I don't think it's a bad idea. It's a better use of revenue than many other initiatives.. it would at least be interesting to see if Ireland could make it work.

afaik, no doctors will be required to take part in the scheme. It's up to themselves whether or not they do. And there's no way in hell the government will be paying them €60 for every patient they see.

gurramok

Annabella1 wrote: »

Not gp's fault that people choose to attend with self limiting conditions

What? Justify that statement, GP fees at 60 quid charge for any visit to the GP.

Annabella1

gurramok wrote: »

What? Justify that statement, GP fees at 60 quid charge for any visit to the GP.

My GP charges Eur 45 and gives an excellent service.That said,I would never attend a doctor for a self limiting condition such as a cold/flu which can be treated with Paracetamol,fluids rest etc.

sh1tstirrer

Is this a move to soften the blow from the budget :rolleyes: If they are going to allow free visits it will be abused, they should charge a minimum fee of around €20. That will weed out the abusers of the system.

Jane5

gurramok wrote: »

Better than paying 60quid to rip-off doctors(all docs) just to diagnose you with a cold or flu. Roll on free or even near free GP visits and watch the cartel of these rip-off merchants actually work for a change.

No matter how often I hear this argument, I NEVER understand it!

gurramok, if you are attending a GP with a cold or a 'flu, and they diagnose you with one, how are they ripping you off, may I ask? Sounds like they are just correctly diagnosing you with the illness that you have, one which, I might add, does not warrant medical attention.
Should they pretend you have cancer instead and give you some chemo to justify their fee?

They are a business, not a charity. You exchange money for their services. If you inappropriately engage their services, such as attending for a common cold, you still have to pay.

If you are going to argue that, in the unlikely event of you, an adult, never ever having had a cold or 'flu before and having no idea whatsoever what was happening to you, going to the GP and being diagnosed correctly, and advised accordingly, should then somehow have the fee waived because you are not sick with an illness that requires a prescription, well, that is utter nonsense.

If you have a cold, and you don't like handing over 60 euros to someone to tell you, that, yes, you do have a cold, then DON'T INAPPROPRIATELY ATTEND A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!

I'm here all week.

sh1tstirrer

Jane5 wrote: »

No matter how often I hear this argument, I NEVER understand it!

gurramok, if you are attending a GP with a cold or a 'flu, and they diagnose you with one, how are they ripping you off, may I ask? Sounds like they are just correctly diagnosing you with the illness that you have, one which, I might add, does not warrant medical attention.
Should they pretend you have cancer instead and give you some chemo to justify their fee?

They are a business, not a charity. You exchange money for their services. If you inappropriately engage their services, such as attending for a common cold, you still have to pay.

If you are going to argue that, in the unlikely event of you, an adult, never ever having had a cold or 'flu before and having no idea whatsoever what was happening to you, going to the GP and being diagnosed correctly, and advised accordingly, should then somehow have the fee waived because you are not sick with an illness that requires a prescription, well, that is utter nonsense.

If you have a cold, and you don't like handing over 60 euros to someone to tell you, that, yes, you do have a cold, then DON'T INAPPROPRIATELY ATTEND A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!

I'm here all week.

Just to add to that if someone had the flu they wouldn't be able to get out of bed as their joints would be stiff. They would need the doctor to come to them. When will people learn that a head cold is not the flu :mad:

professore

I agree there should be some sort of charge, even say € 5, to put people off going unnecessarily. Free is a bad idea.

ejmaztec

Jane5 wrote: »

No matter how often I hear this argument, I NEVER understand it!

gurramok, if you are attending a GP with a cold or a 'flu, and they diagnose you with one, how are they ripping you off, may I ask? Sounds like they are just correctly diagnosing you with the illness that you have, one which, I might add, does not warrant medical attention.
Should they pretend you have cancer instead and give you some chemo to justify their fee?

They are a business, not a charity. You exchange money for their services. If you inappropriately engage their services, such as attending for a common cold, you still have to pay.

If you are going to argue that, in the unlikely event of you, an adult, never ever having had a cold or 'flu before and having no idea whatsoever what was happening to you, going to the GP and being diagnosed correctly, and advised accordingly, should then somehow have the fee waived because you are not sick with an illness that requires a prescription, well, that is utter nonsense.

If you have a cold, and you don't like handing over 60 euros to someone to tell you, that, yes, you do have a cold, then DON'T INAPPROPRIATELY ATTEND A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!

I'm here all week.

GPs are robbers - end of.

ejmaztec

Annabella1 wrote: »

Sounds like utopia....not going to be!
I'm familiar with the nhs in the uk
The era of same day appointments to gp's will be a thing of the past which will increase pressure on hospitals
Anything that is free is open to abuse

They expected that on a large scale before the NHS kicked off in the UK, but it didn't happen.

ceegee

ejmaztec wrote: »

Annabella1 wrote: »

Sounds like utopia....not going to be!
I'm familiar with the nhs in the uk
The era of same day appointments to gp's will be a thing of the past which will increase pressure on hospitals
Anything that is free is open to abuse

They expected that on a large scale before the NHS kicked off in the UK, but it didn't happen.

Arent waiting times for appointments much longer over there?

Jane5

http://www.independent.ie/health/health-news/superbug-immune-to-antibiotics-detected-in-patients-2939744.html

Haha-like the new "pad" GPs have been issued with. Now attendees with colds, 'flus and viral illnesses WILL indeed get an official prescription-of things to do when one has a viral illness and an explanation about the differences between bacteria and viruses. Me like a lot.

To the poster who stated that "people who have 'flu cannot get out of bed as their joints are stiff and the GP would have to come to them".

Unfortunately people who have the 'flu may indeed suffer with joint pain-however, the vast VAST majority are not immobilised beyond any capacity to move, and do indeed go to their GP and the shops and lots of places they shouldn't and help spread the virus around, instead of staying in bed like they should.

Jane5

ejmaztec wrote: »

GPs are robbers - end of.

Statement with little to back it up. GP fees here are high, no question, but as you well know, private patients are essentially subsidising the medical card patients at the moment. Medical card patients can attend as often as they like, use as much of the practices resources as they like, and the practice is still only paid a once off fee for that patient per year, regardless of how often they use the service.

This is an inefficient and badly thought out move on the State's part-as it forces GPs to have higher fees for their private patients in an effort to balance the books, pay themselves and their practice employees and overheads, insurance etc.

Free GP care for all, with the GPs salaried by the State would be wonderful from the GPs perspective, as the State is then essentially responsible for all running costs of the practice, lighting, heating, insurance, nursing and admin staff, blood tests, equipment maintenance, housecalls etc. If I were a GP I would welcome this iniative with open arms.

Mike 1972

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

Free GP visits for families by 2015......

Thread title fail.

The article claims it will apply to everyone.

Annabella1 wrote: »

That said,I would never attend a doctor for a self limiting condition such as a cold/flu which can be treated with Paracetamol,fluids rest etc.

Treating a flu with paracetamol is pretty counter productive.

ceegee wrote: »

Arent waiting times for appointments much longer over there?

It depends.

ejmaztec

ceegee wrote: »

Arent waiting times for appointments much longer over there?

Haven't been there for years, so don't know. It's unfortunate that the the NHS has undergone a multitude of re-organisations since 1948, and I don't think that any of them have been for the better. I blame any problems in the NHS on these "improvements". A person who worked in an NHS finance department told me once, that before one particular re-organisation, she had one boss, and after re-organisation there were eight.

ejmaztec

Jane5 wrote: »

Statement with little to back it up. GP fees here are high, no question, but as you well know, private patients are essentially subsidising the medical card patients at the moment. Medical card patients can attend as often as they like, use as much of the practices resources as they like, and the practice is still only paid a once off fee for that patient per year, regardless of how often they use the service.

This is an inefficient and badly thought out move on the State's part-as it forces GPs to have higher fees for their private patients in an effort to balance the books, pay themselves and their practice employees and overheads, insurance etc.

Free GP care for all, with the GPs salaried by the State would be wonderful from the GPs perspective, as the State is then essentially responsible for all running costs of the practice, lighting, heating, insurance, nursing and admin staff, blood tests, equipment maintenance, housecalls etc. If I were a GP I would welcome this iniative with open arms.

I know of one GP who rakes in almost €300,000 p.a. from the state in medical card fees, and also has many private patients. When one considers that not all of the medical card patients actually visit their GP, the money that the GP gets for them is money for old rope.

The only people that I've heard backing up the extortionate fees of GPs are GPs themselves, and members of staff working for them.

bleg

gurramok wrote: »

Better than paying 60quid to rip-off doctors(all docs) just to diagnose you with a cold or flu.

Yea! For 60 quid they should diagnose you with a proper ****ing disease like AIDS or cancer!!!! They should dose out the ****ing antibiotics for everything too! We don't pay them for a diagnosis, we pay them for the prescription!!

bleg

ejmaztec wrote: »

I know of one GP who rakes in almost €300,000 p.a. from the state in medical card fees, and also has many private patients. When one considers that not all of the medical card patients actually visit their GP, the money that the GP gets for them is money for old rope.

Is it one GP or is it a GP surgery with many different physicians and nurses and receptionists. Dunno how a single GP could handle enough patients to get 300,000 from state fees and still have time to run a private practice.

Jane5

Well, I am neither a GP, nor a GP employee, nor are there any GPs in my family, and while I am not defending the GPs fees, I am explaining why in many cases they are necessary.

Yes, everyone has the "I anecdotally know a GP who gets half a million a year in cash and gold nuggets directly into their hands for medical card patients half of whom are actually dead". Did you know that the plural of "anecdotes" is not "data"?

The facts are, not my opinion by the way, as I have no vested interest other than a great burning desire to see logic win out, but the facts are that the MAJORITY of GPs-apart from the anecdotal one you mention-have to make up the shortfall in income from treating medical card patients by charging their private patients more. This is a fact.

Another fact is this: if the State took over GP care in the manner it says, and was responsible for all the expenses associated with a GP surgery that I mentioned previously, it would vastly benefit GPs in terms of lifestyle, give them security of income, perhaps even a guaranteed pension, and would be infinitely preferable to patients, who could then access primary care free at the point of entry. It would benefit population health as a whole. I'm all for it.

ejmaztec

Jane5 wrote: »

Well, I am neither a GP, nor a GP employee, nor are there any GPs in my family, and while I am not defending the GPs fees, I am explaining why in many cases they are necessary.

Yes, everyone has the "I anecdotally know a GP who gets half a million a year in cash and gold nuggets directly into their hands for medical card patients half of whom are actually dead". Did you know that the plural of "anecdotes" is not "data"?

The facts are, not my opinion by the way, as I have no vested interest other than a great burning desire to see logic win out, but the facts are that the MAJORITY of GPs-apart from the anecdotal one you mention-have to make up the shortfall in income from treating medical card patients by charging their private patients more. This is a fact.

Another fact is this: if the State took over GP care in the manner it says, and was responsible for all the expenses associated with a GP surgery that I mentioned previously, it would vastly benefit GPs in terms of lifestyle, give them security of income, perhaps even a guaranteed pension, and would be infinitely preferable to patients, who could then access primary care free at the point of entry. It would benefit population health as a whole. I'm all for it.

In the same vein, I'll treat the content of your post as anecdotal. The medical card earnings of the GP to whom I referred are in black and white in the public domain, so you can probably find the deatails somewhere if you care to look. I mentioned nothing about gold nuggets and dead patients.

Teyla Emmagan

I would love to think it would be free for everyone to visit the doctor, but it will never happen. There isn't a hope the country could afford such an initiative at the moment.

Also, there are loads of problems in the UK with people not being able to choose the doctor they want, or being stuck with a doctor they aren't happy with. There's no freedom of choice, which is ultimately detrimental to the patient. You have to have faith in your doctor.

I may think that the €60 I have to pay to see my own doctor is pretty horrific, but I trust him, and in the ten years I've been going to him I have never rung up and not been given a same day appointment either. And if fees were free, the surgeries would all be clogged with people going in to moan about every little sniffle.

I would like to see our GP fees being capped at something reasonable, but free fees are a luxury we can't afford. And we already have a system in place to enable people who don't have the money for the high fees to be able to access their doctor - it's called the medical card. If we could clean up the medical card system and make it more accessible (and have it expire so people have to reapply for it - I can't for the life of me understand how you can now get it for life unless you have a long term condition) then I think we would be addressing the issue in a sensible, and sustainable, manner.

Annabella1

ejmaztec wrote: »

They expected that on a large scale before the NHS kicked off in the UK, but it didn't happen.

The nhs started in the uk after the last war! They have ploughed enormous money into their system for the past 50 years and my experience was a 2 to 3 day waiting list for a doctor over there.I have not heard a government minister mention this.there is a recognition that there is a shortage of gps here and little hope of training more as junior doctors are emigrating in droves.

ejmaztec

ejmaztec wrote: »

Haven't been there for years, so don't know. It's unfortunate that the the NHS has undergone a multitude of re-organisations since 1948, and I don't think that any of them have been for the better. I blame any problems in the NHS on these "improvements". A person who worked in an NHS finance department told me once, that before one particular re-organisation, she had one boss, and after re-organisation there were eight.

Annabella1 wrote: »

The nhs started in the uk after the last war! They have ploughed enormous money into their system for the past 50 years and my experience was a 2 to 3 day waiting list for a doctor over there.I have not heard a government minister mention this.there is a recognition that there is a shortage of gps here and little hope of training more as junior doctors are emigrating in droves.

My previous post shows my opinion on what the caused the problems in the NHS. It seems those responsible for running the NHS employed as many unnecessary admin staff as they could lay their hands on, so reducing monies available to the practical side of it.

The ones responsible here aren't exactly smart either. In Tralee they built a new admin block near Kerry General Hospital, then after it was built realised it wasn't big enough to house all of the staff.

MagicMarker

Jane5 wrote: »

No matter how often I hear this argument, I NEVER understand it!

gurramok, if you are attending a GP with a cold or a 'flu, and they diagnose you with one, how are they ripping you off, may I ask? Sounds like they are just correctly diagnosing you with the illness that you have, one which, I might add, does not warrant medical attention.
Should they pretend you have cancer instead and give you some chemo to justify their fee?

They are a business, not a charity. You exchange money for their services. If you inappropriately engage their services, such as attending for a common cold, you still have to pay.

If you are going to argue that, in the unlikely event of you, an adult, never ever having had a cold or 'flu before and having no idea whatsoever what was happening to you, going to the GP and being diagnosed correctly, and advised accordingly, should then somehow have the fee waived because you are not sick with an illness that requires a prescription, well, that is utter nonsense.

If you have a cold, and you don't like handing over 60 euros to someone to tell you, that, yes, you do have a cold, then DON'T INAPPROPRIATELY ATTEND A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!

I'm here all week.

Errr, I think the €60 for 10 minutes of their time is the rip off part.

RichieC

My name is URL wrote: »

It's supposed to save the state money in the longer term. If diagnoses are made earlier then the cost laden on the exchequer for treatment will be reduced. Or so the legend goes..

you say legend I say common sense..

We don't want to turn into America, it's basically a sick farm for big pharma over there... ketchup and pizza are considered a fruit... we shouldn't go there.

Mike 1972

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Also, there are loads of problems in the UK with people not being able to choose the doctor they want, or being stuck with a doctor they aren't happy with.

I have never had this problem. Anytime Ive tried to register Ive been offered a choice of doctors .

woodoo

I'd like to see medical card patients charged €5 or €10 per visit, GP Card Patients charged €15 or €20 and everyone else no more than 30 per visit.

When people get it free they will be up for every little ailment or every little twinge they feel.

Annabella1

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/news/free-gp-visits-for-all-by-2015-minister-2939271.html

Saw this article on Yahoo, somehow I can't see GP's giving anything for free. And the idea that it will allegedly be budgeted for by the Government basically means we'll pay more tax to further line the pockets of the medical profession lol If pay more tax meant better health care I wouldn't mind but this will literally along with the Medical card payments from the government go straight in the GP's pocket.

Nobody works for free!!The term 'Free GP care' has become a political phrase to buy votes.Working people will end up paying hundreds of euro in extra taxes every year to look after the medical needs of the whole population.For the majority of the (thankfully) healthy working population,it will end up costing more than paying the GP a couple of times a year.I am getting tired of subsidising others

Tiocfaidh Armani

woodoo wrote: »

I'd like to see medical card patients charged €5 or €10 per visit, GP Card Patients charged €15 or €20 and everyone else no more than 30 per visit.

When people get it free they will be up for every little ailment or every little twinge they feel.

Damn peasants actually want preventative care, the rascals:rolleyes:

jester77

If they do give free visits, then I hope it doesn't end up like here. In the public system you pay €5 or €10 per quarter (I forget which) for visits and in the private you pay yourself and claim it back from the health insurance. Some doctors will only take private patients while most others have 2 waiting rooms, 1 for private & 1 for public, where the private patient will get preferential treatment and seen to almost immediately.

starbelgrade

bleg wrote: »

Yea! For 60 quid they should diagnose you with a proper ****ing disease like AIDS or cancer!!!! They should dose out the ****ing antibiotics for everything too! We don't pay them for a diagnosis, we pay them for the prescription!!

Antibiotics are no good to you if you have a cold or flu.

Snakeblood

WHERE CAN I GET SOME OF THESE PLACEBOS?

starbelgrade

starbelgrade wrote: »

Antibiotics are no good to you if you have a cold or flu.

.....