Students pay for collage while Apprentices get payed while in FAS

c montgomery

So collage registration fees are going up. I finished collage a few years ago. About half of my friends went to collage while the other half went to do trades.
6 months of the year the apprentices were in FAS being payed for attending an education course while i was paying to attend my course.
Now after a number of years i pay about double the amount of tax that they pay, this is true for almost all of my friends that attended collage.

If they increase the fees for collage maybe they could look at the money given to apprentices attending FAS. Why should they get payed for something that we have to pay for when in the majority of cases collage graduates pay more tax?

RichardAnd

Surely it's only fair to pay for a collage?

Godge

RichardAnd wrote: »

Surely it's only fair to pay for a collage?

If you search online, you will find collage makers for free to download.

Riskymove

English and Journalism?

Nothingbetter2d

c montgomery wrote: »

So collage registration fees are going up. I finished collage a few years ago. About half of my friends went to collage while the other half went to do trades.
6 months of the year the apprentices were in FAS being payed for attending an education course while i was paying to attend my course.
Now after a number of years i pay about double the amount of tax that they pay, this is true for almost all of my friends that attended collage.

If they increase the fees for collage maybe they could look at the money given to apprentices attending FAS. Why should they get payed for something that we have to pay for when in the majority of cases collage graduates pay more tax?

pity you did not learn how to spell while you were in College....

also its employers that pay apprentices their wages not fas. The ones being paid by fas directly are not apprentices and therefore get the same as they would if they were sat at home scratching their asses and claiming dole.

pragmatic1

Always thought this was really unfair. The money paid to apprentices would be better used to improve facilities at colleges and universities. ****in backwards country.

Slideshowbob

The chap has a typo, no need for an orgasm over it.

I think there's actually a scheme here where electricians out of work for more than 6 months and finished their apprentices can work for a firm and the government pay their wages!!! Crazy

Having said that I have come across some useless college courses that don't justify taxpayers support ...

amacachi

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

also its employers that pay apprentices their wages not fas. The ones being paid by fas directly are not apprentices and therefore get the same as they would if they were sat at home scratching their asses and claiming dole.

Wrong. Depending on how long they're into the process when doing the bits that are done in an IT apprentices get paid by the government and also get an accomodation allowance. Last year a friend was getting over 500 a week to go to classes in Athlone IT for 12 weeks, 2 years before that he got 300 per week to go to classes in DIT.

EDIT: http://www.fas.ie/en/Training/Apprenticeships/default.htm

femur61

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

pity you did not learn how to spell while you were in College....

also its employers that pay apprentices their wages not fas. The ones being paid by fas directly are not apprentices and therefore get the same as they would if they were sat at home scratching their asses and claiming dole.

FAS do pay their wages when at college which they do for a few months every year before they can move up to the next phase, that is the next year of their apprenticeship.

-Chris-

c montgomery wrote: »

So collage registration fees are going up. I finished collage a few years ago. About half of my friends went to collage while the other half went to do trades.
6 months of the year the apprentices were in FAS being payed for attending an education course while i was paying to attend my course.
Now after a number of years i pay about double the amount of tax that they pay, this is true for almost all of my friends that attended collage.
If they increase the fees for collage maybe they could look at the money given to apprentices attending FAS. Why should they get payed for something that we have to pay for when in the majority of cases collage graduates pay more tax?

So, what you're saying is that after paying to attend college you're now paid significantly more than someone who did an apprenticeship (I don't know why else you'd pay double the amount of tax).

Would you not consider, in that case, paying for college being a FAR better investment than taking the short term decision to be paid while in education and then make a lesser income for the rest of your life?

jjspine

Im sorry if this is to negative for the sensitive ears of a college student but im ****** off listening to all of them moaning about college fees !!! what in gods name makes them think they deserve a free education ?? They are getting worse than the taxi drivers for giving out and there just lethal !!!

Lord knows i agree, half the ppl out there on benefits dont deserve them but the other half dont want to be listening to all the whining going on by POOR college students !!!

Get a job !!

Rant over

amen

The problem with the college fees it that they are not called fees. They are "student service fee" and as such they are meant to be used for examinations, student facilities etc. They started off at a low level and are now around €2,000.

If they were true fees you could claim tax relief at 20% but as they are not there is not relief.

jackiebaron

c montgomery wrote: »

So collage registration fees are going up. I finished collage a few years ago. About half of my friends went to collage while the other half went to do trades.
6 months of the year the apprentices were in FAS being payed for attending an education course while i was paying to attend my course.
Now after a number of years i pay about double the amount of tax that they pay, this is true for almost all of my friends that attended collage.

If they increase the fees for collage maybe they could look at the money given to apprentices attending FAS. Why should they get payed for something that we have to pay for when in the majority of cases collage graduates pay more tax?

I'd ask for my money back if I was you.

The Mulk

An apprenticship lasts for 7 phases consisting of 4 on the job and 3 off the job(in FAS/college).The duration of the apprenticship is for 4-4.5 years, so the apprenicship last for approx. 210 weeks.
Of these 210 weeks 40 are spent in FAS/college, meaning the apprentices work and pay tax,prsi and usc for 170 weeks over the course of the aprrenticeship. Obviously their wages would increase over the 4 years.
I'm sure this balances out, not counting tax paid by the companies employing the aprentices and the €2000 bursary the employer pays.
During my apprenticship we were asked to work for our companies on a Saturday too(during the boom obviously) paying tax on this also.

I'm sure if the OP worked during the 3 month summer break they would claim tax back;)

jackiebaron

jjspine wrote: »

Im sorry if this is to negative for the sensitive ears of a college student but im ****** off listening to all of them moaning about college fees !!! what in gods name makes them think they deserve a free education ?? They are getting worse than the taxi drivers for giving out and there just lethal !!!

Lord knows i agree, half the ppl out there on benefits dont deserve them but the other half dont want to be listening to all the whining going on by POOR college students !!!

Get a job !!

Rant over

So you are stating that 50% of benefits recipients in Ireland should not be getting them? Do you have anything to back up this gross overgeneralisation?
And who are you to say whether or not people are entitled to a free education? Since when do you and you alone get to decide what we as a society collectively agree upon should be provided for all by the state (funded by tax revenue) and what should be paid for by the individual?

You are probably a typcial bitchy crank who spends his entire life complaining about where his taxes are going yet fiddles his bill nonetheless. And please, spare us the trite "get a job" quip.

You don't pay for the air you effing breath do you? How about someone determines that you should now pay oxygen duty?

I don't have kids. I am a male. I am not old. Though I have a driving license I don't drive. I do not eat junk food. I do not go sailing in hazardous conditions or climbing up mountains.
YET my taxes go towards schools and playgrounds, research and preventative medicine for gynaecological maladies and breast cancer, senior citizens' pensions and their travel benefits, road repairs and highway construction, treatment for obesity and diabetes, the coast guard and the rescue services, i.e. things that don't directly benefit me.....and DAMN happy I am to pay too..

You don't want to pay taxes or you want to lives in a society where there is absolutely no free or subsidised services that assist anybody (God forbid someone might get something. God forbid someone might get a bit of assistance) in any way shape or form? Then why don't you p!ss off to Saudi Arabia or better still Afghanistan. There you won't have to worry about anyone else having anything provided for them. You can sit there happy in the knowledge that you're alright and everyone around you is fcuked.

yosser hughes

Slideshowbob wrote: »

The chap has a typo, no need for an orgasm over it.

..

It's not a typo. A typo would suggest a genuine mistake and that the OP knew how to spell college. He obviously does not know how to spell college. It is indicative of the standards of literacy in this country;which is quite bad according to the latest survey. You would expect more from a college graduate and it is right to point it out.

swordofislam

The OP reads like it was just cut and pasted. tbh

AlekSmart

Slideshowbob wrote: »

The chap has a typo, no need for an orgasm over it.

I think there's actually a scheme here where electricians out of work for more than 6 months and finished their apprentices can work for a firm and the government pay their wages!!! Crazy

Having said that I have come across some useless college courses that don't justify taxpayers support ...

I think Slideshowbob is thinking of the ESB initiative to allow over 400 APPRENTICE Electricians made redundant to COMPLETE their apprenticeship and thus qualify as Tradespeople.

http://www.esb.ie/main/press/press-release349.jsp

Its one of the rare occasions where we have a really meaningful response to a disaster in economic and social terms,which will at least see that some continuity is maintained for this group of young aspiring tradespersons.

Well done the ESB I say.

jjspine

jackiebaron wrote: »

So you are stating that 50% of benefits recipients in Ireland should not be getting them? Do you have anything to back up this gross overgeneralisation?
And who are you to say whether or not people are entitled to a free education? Since when do you and you alone get to decide what we as a society collectively agree upon should be provided for all by the state (funded by tax revenue) and what should be paid for by the individual?

You are probably a typcial bitchy crank who spends his entire life complaining about where his taxes are going yet fiddles his bill nonetheless. And please, spare us the trite "get a job" quip.

You don't pay for the air you effing breath do you? How about someone determines that you should now pay oxygen duty?

I don't have kids. I am a male. I am not old. Though I have a driving license I don't drive. I do not eat junk food. I do not go sailing in hazardous conditions or climbing up mountains.
YET my taxes go towards schools and playgrounds, research and preventative medicine for gynaecological maladies and breast cancer, senior citizens' pensions and their travel benefits, road repairs and highway construction, treatment for obesity and diabetes, the coast guard and the rescue services, i.e. things that don't directly benefit me.....and DAMN happy I am to pay too..

You don't want to pay taxes or you want to lives in a society where there is absolutely no free or subsidised services that assist anybody (God forbid someone might get something. God forbid someone might get a bit of assistance) in any way shape or form? Then why don't you p!ss off to Saudi Arabia or better still Afghanistan. There you won't have to worry about anyone else having anything provided for them. You can sit there happy in the knowledge that you're alright and everyone around you is fcuked.

Who lit the fuse on your tampon ???

Have a bit of cop on and open your eyes one thing is certain in life thats taxes we all have to pay them my point ( which you seem to have overlooked ) is why should i pay for someone else education ??

And what about all the social welfare benefit being handed out willy nilly and the taxpayer getting the bill !!!

As for money being pumped into research thats money well spent in my opinion and its also way off the point if you read the original thread by the OP

pieface_ie

Apprentices get paid by FAS only when they are attending their three stints in college, the rest of the time they are paid by their respective employer and pay taxes in the process. Students do not pay tax if they are not working while in college.

The apprentices paying tax no doubt contributes in some form to the "free fees" for third level students.

Captain Chaos

We get to claim the tax back on the wages we are payed while in college too. And work up tax free credits for when we go back to the on the job phase.

So yes they are payed fees in a way. Not bad really if can manage to stay employed in your trade.

c montgomery

I’m in agreement that spelling is not my strong point but in fairness debate the issue and not the spelling.
English is not everyone’s strong point, science is mine which is why I have a masters in engineering.

c montgomery

pieface_ie wrote: »

Apprentices get paid by FAS only when they are attending their three stints in college, the rest of the time they are paid by their respective employer and pay taxes in the process. Students do not pay tax if they are not working while in college.

The apprentices paying tax no doubt contributes in some form to the "free fees" for third level students.

So apprentices get paid by the state to attend college.

AlekSmart

c montgomery wrote: »

So apprentices get paid by the state to attend college.

It seems that c montgomery is somehow surprised that apprentices are actually required,as an integral part of their apprenticship,to attend day or block release courses related to their trade discipline.

Of course it's entirely posible to do a Pol Pot on it and revert to year zero...then we can have a return of the indentured apprentice days....and a bit of forelock-tugging for good measure ?

jackiebaron

jjspine wrote: »

Who lit the fuse on your tampon ???

Have a bit of cop on and open your eyes one thing is certain in life thats taxes we all have to pay them my point ( which you seem to have overlooked ) is why should i pay for someone else education ??

And what about all the social welfare benefit being handed out willy nilly and the taxpayer getting the bill !!!

As for money being pumped into research thats money well spent in my opinion and its also way off the point if you read the original thread by the OP

What kind of a cretinous question is that?

To counter, I would ask this: Why the hell should anyone else pay for the police or fire brigade to come to your aid when you have a problem paying for other peoples' education?

As I stated before, if you don't want to contribute to ANY social programs, then don't. Just don't avail of any of them either. The desert, the jungle or the Arctic awaits you.

And what benefits are being handed out "willy-nilly" in your eloquent turn of phrase? In Ireland there is a social safety net for those who have either fallen through the cracks, fallen on hard times or essentially need a helping hand.

Why the fück should my taxes go towards your kids getting BCG vaccinations when they're tiny? Because I agree that they should! CAPISCE?
Why the fück should my taxes go towards your daughter getting State provided counselling if she's been sexually harassed? Because I AGREE she should get such counselling...and more!
Why should my taxes go towards you being given a chance to stay in your home with your family and try to find a new job when you've lost your existing emploi? Because I AGREE you should be able to.
Like I mentioned before, I don't have kids yet and I'm not griping about my taxes going towards your kids' education (if indeed you have any). I'm glad to have my taxes go towards education. Maybe at the other end of the tunnel the taxes that I pay would ensure that your damn offspring are better educated and more empathetic than you are.

I earn 120k a year and own 3 apartments so it would be very fücking easy for me to scream "get a job", like you glibly do. But I don't. I know there are people on benefits who take the pïss, just like there are people who have jobs who actually accomplish LESS than many unemployed people. But you with your "turf 'em all out into the street" mentality is nauseating moreso than it is immature.

You state that you shouldn't have to pay for anybody's education. That said, you should have absolutely no problem then, when those students graduate and enter the workforce, them refusing to pay for your fücking pension, right?

And THAT'S what "lights the fuse on my tampon".



One final question.....who paid for you to learn to read and write? Were you educated at home by nannies, butlers and governesses?

jjspine

jackiebaron wrote: »

What kind of a cretinous question is that?

To counter, I would ask this: Why the hell should anyone else pay for the police or fire brigade to come to your aid when you have a problem paying for other peoples' education?

As I stated before, if you don't want to contribute to ANY social programs, then don't. Just don't avail of any of them either. The desert, the jungle or the Arctic awaits you.

And what benefits are being handed out "willy-nilly" in your eloquent turn of phrase? In Ireland there is a social safety net for those who have either fallen through the cracks, fallen on hard times or essentially need a helping hand.

Why the fück should my taxes go towards your kids getting BCG vaccinations when they're tiny? Because I agree that they should! CAPISCE?
Why the fück should my taxes go towards your daughter getting State provided counselling if she's been sexually harassed? Because I AGREE she should get such counselling...and more!
Why should my taxes go towards you being given a chance to stay in your home with your family and try to find a new job when you've lost your existing emploi? Because I AGREE you should be able to.
Like I mentioned before, I don't have kids yet and I'm not griping about my taxes going towards your kids' education (if indeed you have any). I'm glad to have my taxes go towards education. Maybe at the other end of the tunnel the taxes that I pay would ensure that your damn offspring are better educated and more empathetic than you are.

I earn 120k a year and own 3 apartments so it would be very fücking easy for me to scream "get a job", like you glibly do. But I don't. I know there are people on benefits who take the pïss, just like there are people who have jobs who actually accomplish LESS than many unemployed people. But you with your "turf 'em all out into the street" mentality is nauseating moreso than it is immature.

You state that you shouldn't have to pay for anybody's education. That said, you should have absolutely no problem then, when those students graduate and enter the workforce, them refusing to pay for your fücking pension, right?

And THAT'S what "lights the fuse on my tampon".



One final question.....who paid for you to learn to read and write? Were you educated at home by nannies, butlers and governesses?

LOL

were talking college here not primary school !!

mind you you do go on like that sometimes !!!
Hmmm lets show the world what i have you and your so called 3 apartments !!
Who do you think honestly cares ?? Look around you !!

You seem to troll looking for a row judging by the stuff you put on here and soon as you get shot down your off
And you call other ppl immature !!

Being so intelligent i would have thought you understood everyone to have their own opinion but your a bit of a hitler underneath it all me thinks

Good luck Buddy hope ya find what your looking for

Oh and in case you want to sound good in future

Its spelt Capiche

nesf

Less of the handbags please. Less sniping at each other's spelling too, it's neither big nor clever.

jackiebaron

jjspine wrote: »

LOL

were talking college here not primary school !!

mind you you do go on like that sometimes !!!
Hmmm lets show the world what i have you and your so called 3 apartments !!
Who do you think honestly cares ?? Look around you !!

You seem to troll looking for a row judging by the stuff you put on here and soon as you get shot down your off
And you call other ppl immature !!

Being so intelligent i would have thought you understood everyone to have their own opinion but your a bit of a hitler underneath it all me thinks

Good luck Buddy hope ya find what your looking for

Oh and in case you want to sound good in future

Its spelt Capiche

I know we're talking about college. But why are you willing to pay for the primary education and secondary education of other people but not the tertiary education? What's the difference?
Did you go to college yourself and if so did you pay fees? Are you bitter that you paid fees and that later on fees were abolished? If you did pay fees then what was your stance regarding people who qualified for grants?

In fact what's your stance on those who get grants now? Are you as snide and bitchy and begrudging of them as you are of students who complain about the costs of their education? After all you're paying for the education of grants recipients.

And in conclusion to your post...you're wrong yet again:

Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.

So if you don't want to appear dumb in future then spell it correctly.
Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.



Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.



Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.

nesf

jackiebaron wrote: »

I know we're talking about college. But why are you willing to pay for the primary education and secondary education of other people but not the tertiary education? What's the difference?
Did you go to college yourself and if so did you pay fees? Are you bitter that you paid fees and that later on fees were abolished? If you did pay fees then what was your stance regarding people who qualified for grants?

In fact what's your stance on those who get grants now? Are you as snide and bitchy and begrudging of them as you are of students who complain about the costs of their education? After all you're paying for the education of grants recipients.

And in conclusion to your post...you're wrong yet again:

Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.

So if you don't want to appear dumb in future then spell it correctly.
Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.



Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.



Capisce 384 up, 25 downCapisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you. Capisce, in Italian, is used only to address the second person formally (like when speaking to an elder or someone you don't know) or to express that a third person (he, she, it) understands. The correct Italian pronunciation of capisce is cah-PEE-shay.

Banned for ignoring warning.

G2ECE

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think Slideshowbob is thinking of the ESB initiative to allow over 400 APPRENTICE Electricians made redundant to COMPLETE their apprenticeship and thus qualify as Tradespeople.

http://www.esb.ie/main/press/press-release349.jsp

Its one of the rare occasions where we have a really meaningful response to a disaster in economic and social terms,which will at least see that some continuity is maintained for this group of young aspiring tradespersons.

Well done the ESB I say.

The Electrical Apprentices were the first to be taken on on the Redundant Apprentice Placement Scheme (RAPS) Since then other trades have been included. info here, http://www.fas.ie/NR/rdonlyres/3791E378-FF24-4C23-9277-EEDC1127C330/1594/EnglishBrochureV11.pdf
With regard to Apprentice pay, AFAIK it stems from a social partnership agreement when the Standards Based Apprenticeship was introduced, it meant that apprentices would recieve a percentage of the "Qualified Rate" depending on the phase they were at in their apprenticeship, ranging from 1 to 7. I do believe that the apprenticeship system is being looked at, with rumours that it may take the form similar to that of degree courses. I am being told that the Institutes of Technology will take over the delivery of apprenticeship training in its entirety with 3 years in college and the final year on placement. I'd like to stress that this is not concrete info but its what i am hearing.

NewHillel

c montgomery wrote: »

So collage registration fees are going up. I finished collage a few years ago. About half of my friends went to collage while the other half went to do trades.
6 months of the year the apprentices were in FAS being payed for attending an education course while i was paying to attend my course.
Now after a number of years i pay about double the amount of tax that they pay, this is true for almost all of my friends that attended collage.

If they increase the fees for collage maybe they could look at the money given to apprentices attending FAS. Why should they get payed for something that we have to pay for when in the majority of cases collage graduates pay more tax?

That Masters you achieved was heavily subsidised by the state. I don't have an exact figure, but it was certainly to the tune of €40k+ over the four years. As a result your earning potential is greater, and it is right and proper that you should pay more in taxes. (Just my tuppence worth. )

On the bright side, engineering is a fantastic degree and it opens many doors. On balance, I think you have come out on the right side of this equation.