FAE 2012 - CAI need Repeats and Pass with Compensation

mydiscworld

Currently there is no system in place in the new Chartered Accountants Ireland FAE course for

a) Repeats; nor

b) Pass with Compensation

In the last two (Autumn) sittings of the Old FAE course the pass rate was 76.3% in 2008 & 76.3% again in 2009.

Under the new FAE course the overall pass rate was 62% in 2010 and dropped to 55% for 2011.

This means a staggering 21.3% fall in overall pass rates in just two years.

Clearly action needs to be taken regarding such a drop off.

One factor could be the loss of Pass with Compensation.

The new FAE has no compensation mechanism.

One proposal I have is as follows:

- if you get 4 or 5 out of 6 in your First Sitting, and

- if in your Second Sitting you both
a) passed the one or two which your failed previously (in the First Sitting); and
b) get at least 4 out of 6 again

You would be deemed to Pass with Compensation.

This seems a fair method as your have showed Competence by passing all 6 over the two years and achieved a majoroity of at least 4 of 6 in both years.


The second issue is the lack of Repeats.

Students have traditionally 'put up' with no repeats for FAEs with CAI because the overall pass rates for FAE were relatively high compared to, for example, ACCA or CPA.

But with CAI's overall pass rate now down at 55% for 2011, why would students continue to take CAI's FAE course, with just one sitting of the Core and Elective per year.

Students will become more inclined to move accountancy body, as their pass rates are now similar (to the 55%) and you can sit their exams twice per year.

Clearly there is a case for Repeats for both Core and Electives to be offered in 2012.

I'm interested in any thoughts people have. Should I send this to the student union to see what they can do?

luco123

yes def do.

Stey_9

Yes, fully agree with everything u said there!!!!!!!

Send it on for sure

pepp

I think you have a point, more so about the chance to repeat though because they changed the system so they could drive down the pass rate! and so I don't think they would consider compensation again.

However repeats means more fees and its the only langauge they speak cold hard cash!

Stabshauptmann

theres no appeals process either, is there?

gmcnams

Would you trust a doctor who only diagnoses 4 of 6 ailments?
Would you trust a dentist who filled the wrong tooth?

I appreciate I sound quite harsh here but its my opinion. With the contraction in the economy there are a number of unemployed accountants who effectively slipped through the old system so I do agree there is a bit of correction in the latest pass rates however if you're failing a number of exams or continously repeating -ask yourself why?

The certificate doesn't make the accountant, you're an accountant now but are you good enough to carve out a career?

Those in practise are insulated from this fact but when you get out into industry you notice the cream rising to the top. You no longer out rank people beause you're the year ahead of them and its staggering the number of duds I've encountered in my working life who carry the qualifiaction / pay their annual fee and don't have the first notion about business.

If you pass its meant to be.
If you fail, take stock, have a drink and decide what's best.

Passing by default is worse that passing as a dud - at least you;re finding out now while you;re young and can make a career decision.

Whiplash85

gmcnams wrote: »

Would you trust a doctor who only diagnoses 4 of 6 ailments?
Would you trust a dentist who filled the wrong tooth?

I appreciate I sound quite harsh here but its my opinion. With the contraction in the economy there are a number of unemployed accountants who effectively slipped through the old system so I do agree there is a bit of correction in the latest pass rates however if you're failing a number of exams or continously repeating -ask yourself why?

The certificate doesn't make the accountant, you're an accountant now but are you good enough to carve out a career?

Those in practise are insulated from this fact but when you get out into industry you notice the cream rising to the top. You no longer out rank people beause you're the year ahead of them and its staggering the number of duds I've encountered in my working life who carry the qualifiaction / pay their annual fee and don't have the first notion about business.

If you pass its meant to be.
If you fail, take stock, have a drink and decide what's best.

Passing by default is worse that passing as a dud - at least you;re finding out now while you;re young and can make a career decision.

It sounds like you are speaking from a pulpit.These analogies don't hold any water with me.I know a guy who is partner in one of the big 4 and he failed his exams 3 times before he passed them.Same goes for several people I know who are in managerial roles in top companies.Some people have bad days in exams,others feel exam pressure like no other.Who knows there might be extenuating circumstances as to why someone didn't pass.Maybe it is down to quality of learning materials,lecturers etc.

I know about 20 people who sat these exams today.About 9 passed.But the 11 who failed, these were the ones that passed cap 1's and 2's without any degree of difficulty.The 9 who passed stumbled through the Cap1's and 2's.These exams are a lottery.You mentioned that would you be happy with a doctor who misdiagnosed 1 out of 6 ailments etc.At least with a patient you will have a clearer picture of the prognosis.By extrapolating your analogy does that mean that a person was to get 60% in an exam that they are only 60% competent in the particular area.Where does time and working against the clock in an exam hall compare realistically with real life.

There are numerous determining reasons why someone might not pass as opposed to lack of ability or knowledge as you have alluded to above.There is no magic bullet for passing these exams.Just Sheer bloodymindedness and determination.If you dont pass the first time do half of what the poster above said.Have a drink and make a promise to yourself that you'll get them the next time.

Why????

Whiplash85 wrote: »

It sounds like you are speaking from a pulpit.These analogies don't hold any water with me.I know a guy who is partner in one of the big 4 and he failed his exams 3 times before he passed them.Same goes for several people I know who are in managerial roles in top companies.Some people have bad days in exams,others feel exam pressure like no other.Who knows there might be extenuating circumstances as to why someone didn't pass.Maybe it is down to quality of learning materials,lecturers etc.

I know about 20 people who sat these exams today.About 9 passed.But the 11 who failed, these were the ones that passed cap 1's and 2's without any degree of difficulty.The 9 who passed stumbled through the Cap1's and 2's.These exams are a lottery.You mentioned that would you be happy with a doctor who misdiagnosed 1 out of 6 ailments etc.At least with a patient you will have a clearer picture of the prognosis.By extrapolating your analogy does that mean that a person was to get 60% in an exam that they are only 60% competent in the particular area.Where does time and working against the clock in an exam hall compare realistically with real life.

There are numerous determining reasons why someone might not pass as opposed to lack of ability or knowledge as you have alluded to above.There is no magic bullet for passing these exams.Just Sheer bloodymindedness and determination.If you dont pass the first time do half of what the poster above said.Have a drink and make a promise to yourself that you'll get them the next time.

Very well said!!!!!! This is most def a lottery! Luckily i passed 2day but i still can't believe it! Keep thinking about all the cock ups i made! I also agree with you saying the people you expect 2 pass(well some of them)...will fail! total luck!

There needs to be some kind of compensation for all because its not fair how previous years have been allowed this benefit! Def bring this issue onwards!!!

Good luck to anyone considering repeats. I had made up my mind that i was def not doing them again if i failed! I wasn't prepared to go thru that again 2 wait another 2 months 2 find out if my luck was in!

These exams are def not a true representation of what u are capable of in practice! Don't lose ur confidence!

For all those who failed - I'm a great believer of everything happens for a reason!! it will all come to light in years to come as to why u failed and it will eventually make sense. Plus there is much more to life! My good friend was killed this year & had his life taken by people who wouldn't let him do the job he loved!!! 25 years old. My boyfriend also lost his gorgeous cousin 2 cystic fibrosis & her only 21. His friend then died of cancer at just 25! All this in the space of one year! Ur health is ur wealth! who cares about these! everything will work out for the best! It puts everything in2 perspective.

Hope everything works out for everyone

kitten_k

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

theres no appeals process either, is there?

Yes you can appeal the FAE results.

kitten_k

Why???? wrote: »

These exams are def not a true representation of what u are capable of in practice! Don't lose ur confidence!

I totally agree. I have struggled with the exams but am still employed by the same company, who regularly let staff go for failing their exams. I have been her 5 years and my training contract was up in May 2006, I feel I am still here because I am good at my job.

I let the pressure on the say of the exams get to me and therefore struggle in the exam but that does not mean I am a bed accountant or should not be an accountant. If that was the case I would have been fired long ago.

NYCROCKS

kitten_k wrote: »

Yes you can appeal the FAE results.

You can appeal but it is an absolute money making scam. €180 to view comments on your paper and €450 to appeal, which as far as I am aware only means the original marks given are re-totted to maker sure no errors occurred that way. Once they can pay for their new building thats all they care about.

kitten_k

NYCROCKS wrote: »

You can appeal but it is an absolute money making scam. €180 to view comments on your paper and €450 to appeal, which as far as I am aware only means the original marks given are re-totted to maker sure no errors occurred that way. Once they can pay for their new building thats all they care about.

I agree that is why I am not going to bother. They will get the €150 for the repeat and that's it. Killed me giving them €4,185 last year to sit the FAE's

froggatt2011

Hi there

I was just wondering if the original poster has brought this issue to CASSI yet and if there has been any response.

Thanks

mydiscworld

froggatt2011 wrote: »

Hi there

I was just wondering if the original poster has brought this issue to CASSI yet and if there has been any response.

Thanks

I brought it to the student union. They were also disappointed with the drop in overall pass rates and Audit Elective.

They didn't hold out much hope of pass with compensation or repeats being brought in though.

Apparently they have a big meeting with Chartered in January to air their concerns, etc but I don't realistically see much coming from it.

I have now switched to CPA. Failed FAE Core twice so not gambling on wasting another year. Can do CPA exams twice a year.

DawnRK

Hey,

Does anyone know where you would get either group or private grinds for the ACA Taxation Elective in Cork????

This will be my 3rd time sitting the exam, so think I need someone help from someone with marking or exam technique experience.

Cheers

martin2012

I meant to do my masters & FAE s after... after talking to different experts I will pursue ACCA rather than ACA as the pass rate declined harshly ...

I love this page and all your discussions , they are very helpful ...

Thank you all:):)

mydiscworld

Bump. I've been out of the loop last two years as I qualified with CPA.

Still no sign of same year repeats for FAEs?

I note FAE 2014 pass rates fell to 50.2% in 2014 (579 of 1,114 (52%) passed on first attempt + 214 of 519 (46%) passed on 2nd or later attempt)