Republican challengers to Romney have crumbled and Gingrich leads

Tiocfaidh Armani

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/republican-challengers-to-romney-have-crumbled-and-gingrich-leads-2939363.html

HE is the new flavour of the moment in the race for the Republicans' presidential nomination, but former Speaker Newt Gingrich is discovering what many of his rivals know well already.
No sooner do you bob to the top of the popularity polls than a tempest of media scrutiny and investigation threatens to push you back under again.

But then Mr Gingrich, who was Speaker of the House for much of Bill Clinton's span in the White House, is – as he likes to remind all of us often – wiser than any of the other runners for the nomination, and is a historian.

He therefore cannot be too surprised. "Everything is legitimate," he told reporters this week. "This is the presidency."

As Herman Cain, the former pizza tycoon, has faded after allegations of inappropriate behaviour towards women, so Mr Gingrich has risen, and he is now in high orbit alongside Mitt Romney, the former Governor of Massachusetts.

A new Fox television poll released this week put him at 23 per cent, against 22 per cent for Mr Romney and 15 per cent for Mr Cain.

His is a space ship heavily stacked with baggage, however, some of which Republican voters, who begin choosing their nominee in Iowa in just 45 days, may have trouble overlooking.

The latest has to do with the very lucrative relationship he struck after retiring from Congress in 1999 with Freddie Mac, the government-backed mortgage lending agency that conservatives have long excoriated for helping create the housing bubble and its collapse.

The possible counts against Mr Gingrich are numerous. They range from his having married three times and admitted to having been in an adulterous relationship at the time he was noisily assailing Mr Clinton for his indelicacies with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

These are things conservatives will especially dislike. Some in the party will also remember his reputation as Speaker for moments of ill-temper and petulance.

He knows he could flame out just as quickly as some of his rivals have before him. Michele Bachmann, Governor Rick Perry and Herman Cain had their moments atop the polls before self-destructing.

It is as if the party faithful are still not convinced by the only one whose polls numbers have held strong and steady, Mr Romney. They rush repeatedly to embrace alternatives who are more conservative only to discover that they have flaws too large to ignore.

Mr Gingrich, 68, says he is someone who made his share of mistakes but who has learned from them and is stronger and wiser.

The evidence from his campaign so far, and certainly his debate performances, suggests he may indeed be more disciplined and mellow, even if his talent for scorn and condescension has surely survived.

He is ready to let the voters take a closer look now he is in the spotlight thanks to his new poll numbers and the Freddie Mac flap.

"If three or four weeks from now, I have confronted the scrutiny, as you put it, in an even-keeled way, then they'll be able to relax and go, 'Oh, he was certainly even-keeled,'" he said this week.

"If I blow up and do something utterly stupid, they'll be able to say, 'Gee, I wonder who the next candidate is?'"

In a debate last week, Mr Gingrich allowed that he had been paid $300,000 by Freddie Mac for "advice as a historian", but this week Bloomberg News revealed he had received more than $1.6m.

There is nothing illegal implied, but Mr Gingrich is painted as just the kind of Washington insider Tea Party members abhor – quitting Congress and then making wild sums of money from his connections with it. That it was Freddie Mac paying him will make it worse.

Nomination race: Crashing candidates


Michele Bachmann

The congresswoman from Minnesota and Tea Party standard-bearer had her moment in August when she topped the traditional Ames Straw Poll in Iowa. Yet her habit of making statements that suffer either from exaggeration or absence of truth punctured her fuel tank.

Rick Perry

The instant he joined the race, the Texas Governor shot to the top of the polls and appeared to pose a serious threat to Mr Romney. Yet he began to skid thanks to poor debate performances, not least when he suffered a brain freeze trying to remember government agencies he wants closed.

Herman Cain

With a low-budget campaign and no record of governing, Cain was overlooked at first. But he caught fire after introducing his 9-9-9 taxation plan (9 per cent for people and corporations and a 9 per cent sales tax). Then came the sexual harassment claims and repeated foreign policy gaffes.

- David Usborne

Carcharodon

I really dont see how he can lose this, the rest of the pack are just insane to be honest, Bachman is laugable, Caine is scary laughable and Gingrich is just dodgy.

I would love to hear some honest republican views, because ever since a black man became president, it has become nothing but painful rhetoric, I dont think there has ever been such a lack of respect for a countrys leader ever, and before people yap on about policies and whatever, it has been from day one that people hated him. The more I think about it the more angry it makes me, I do hate politics!!!!

I really fee sorry for some Republicans, because I know that most are not Fox news driven psychopaths that twist the truth to suit there own agendas.

Amerika

Carcharodon wrote: »

I would love to hear some honest republican views, because ever since a black man Marxist became president, it has become nothing but painful rhetoric, I dont think there has ever been such a lack of respect for a countrys leader ever (well... since George W Bush that is), and before people yap on about policies and whatever, it has been from day one that people hated distrusted him.

I changed that around for you in order for it to be more accurate sentiment.

And yeah... Newt is a smart man and a realist. He knows you can’t go wrong with Republicans when you attack the bias and double standards of the media.
　

But here’s the key thing to remember. We all complained correctly when the news media failed to investigate Barack Obama. We complained when they refused to look at William Ayers. We complained when they didn’t actually explain what Saul Alinsky and what it was all about and what community organizer meant. We were right to complain about that. So now they’re actually doing for us what they wouldn’t do for Obama. They’re doing it partly out of bias.

I understand that, and I understand there are places like MSNBC that are essentially the Obama re-election team. But that’s fine. This is a free society. You can say that Fox tends to be nicer to (inaudible) than it is to Obama. In the next three weeks I predict to you we’ll have all sorts of questions about me. And it’s fine. You cannot ask the people of the United States to loan you the most powerful governmental job in the world, particularly on a campaign that is promising very dramatic change, and not have them vet you carefully and thoroughly.

Carcharodon

An attack on Obama is just illogical in y opinion, he is clearly one of the most intelligent leaders, he has given the US a clear boost in perception since the quite clearly idiotic Bush, I dont think anyone with clear perception can deny this.

Marxism.... really, things are really that simple :rolleyes:

Oh and Newt is smart but that doesn't mean he is the right man

karma_

Amerika wrote: »

I changed that around for you in order for it to be more accurate sentiment.

And yeah... Newt is a smart man and a realist. He knows you can’t go wrong with Republicans when you attack the bias and double standards of the media.
　

You think Obama is a Marxist?

Says it all really...

AhSureTisGrand

Amerika wrote: »

Obama is a Marxist

*

Ah FFS

*Disclaimer: this is not a direct quote. Amerika did not post the sentence "Obama is a Marxist"
He merely "changed that around for you (Carcharodon) in order for it (Carcharodon's post) to be more accurate sentiment". Contained in the aforementioned sentiment is an allegation that Barack Obama, the 44th President of The United States of America, heretofore to be referred to as Obama, is a Marxist.**

**It is also worth noting that Amerika in a later post said, "Obama can be considered a Marxist".

matthew8

Carcharodon wrote: »

An attack on Obama is just illogical in y opinion, he is clearly one of the most intelligent leaders, he has given the US a clear boost in perception since the quite clearly idiotic Bush, I dont think anyone with clear perception can deny this.

Marxism.... really, things are really that simple :rolleyes:

Oh and Newt is smart but that doesn't mean he is the right man

Is it illogical to complain about higher unemployment? Is it illogical to complain about increasing the national debt by trillions and the deficit by billions? Is it illogical to complain about people being forced to buy health insurance if they don't want it? You're just defending him because he's a democrat.

Also, we have to stop all this "republicans are racist" rubbish. It destroys any logical argument.

Amerika

karma_ wrote: »

You think Obama is a Marxist?

Says it all really...

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

Ever since the 2008 election, there have been numerous writings explaining why Barack Obama can be considered a Marxist.

Some examples.
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/obama-and-marxism-a-legitimate-question/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2289

Suryavarman

matthew8 wrote: »

Is it illogical to complain about higher unemployment? Is it illogical to complain about increasing the national debt by trillions and the deficit by billions? Is it illogical to complain about people being forced to buy health insurance if they don't want it? You're just defending him because he's a democrat.

Also, we have to stop all this "republicans are racist" rubbish. It destroys any logical argument.

Don't forget the murdering innocent people in the middle east and keeping Gitmo open.

Amerika

Carcharodon wrote: »

An attack on Obama is just illogical in y opinion, he is clearly one of the most intelligent leaders, he has given the US a clear boost in perception since the quite clearly idiotic Bush, I dont think anyone with clear perception can deny this.

What causes you to believe any of that? I have never seen proof, unless you consider people's "feelings" as proof, to back any of that up.

karma_

Amerika wrote: »

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

Ever since the 2008 election, there have been numerous writings explaining why Barack Obama can be considered a Marxist.

Some examples.
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/obama-and-marxism-a-legitimate-question/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2289

Look, it's downright insanity to even think he's a Marxist. He's clearly on the Right of the political divide.

matthew8

Suryavarman wrote: »

Don't forget the murdering innocent people in the middle east and keeping Gitmo open.

And infringing on state's rights and on and on. He's really done a lot of awful things. The thing is he played an empty hand very well in 2008, and if anyone pointed out he was bsing it would be perceived as being a personal attack, and a racist one.

Amerika

Suryavarman wrote: »

Don't forget the murdering innocent people in the middle east and keeping Gitmo open.

A section from a piece I read today in RealClearPolitics - "The Imaginarium of Barack Obama" - fits as excellent answer to this type of thinking.

Catching known terrorists and putting them in Guantanamo is very bad; killing suspected ones by drone assassinations — and anyone unlucky enough to be in their general vicinity — is exceptionally good. Tribunals, renditions, preventative detention, and all that were bad ideas under Bush-Cheney, but could become good ideas under Barack Obama, the law professor who often sees no need to follow the law when an immigration or marriage statute is deemed regressive.

Amerika

karma_ wrote: »

Look, it's downright insanity to even think he's a Marxist. He's clearly on the Right of the political divide.

Maybe by european standards, but not by US standards.

Carcharodon

matthew8 wrote: »

Is it illogical to complain about higher unemployment? Is it illogical to complain about increasing the national debt by trillions and the deficit by billions? Is it illogical to complain about people being forced to buy health insurance if they don't want it? You're just defending him because he's a democrat.

Also, we have to stop all this "republicans are racist" rubbish. It destroys any logical argument.

Well the fact is that racism plays a big part of it whether you wish to believe it or not, it may not seem relevant to you but black people were SLAVES not so long ago, time does change things but it is a slow process.

Why bother argue with you about policies since you obviously have no idea about economic policies of previous administrations, just bash the big bad black man in the white house :rolleyes: Regan is king, bla bla bla

I am not too fond of having to purchase healthcare but I see the logic, but you should be more worried about what a corrupt and disgusting industry health care is in this country.

matthew8

Well the fact is that racism plays a big part of it whether you wish to believe it or not, it may not seem relevant to you but black people were SLAVES not so long ago, time does change things but it is a slow process.

This is pure ignorance. The democrats owned the slaves. The republicans abolished slavery, and then the democrats brought in Jim Crow.

Why bother argue with you about policies since you obviously have no idea about economic policies of previous administrations, just bash the big bad black man in the white house :rolleyes: Regan is king, bla bla bla

I'm not a racist of a Ronald Reagan fan. Also, if you can't spell his last name, call him Ronald Wilson.

I am not too fond of having to purchase healthcare but I see the logic, but you should be more worried about what a corrupt and disgusting industry health care is in this country.

The thing is, there's a decent chance I'll be emigrating, which is part of my interest in the US.

Amerika

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Ah FFS

And what does that make you... Show me where I said what you quoted me as saying "Obama is a Marxist." If you are going to misquote me, at least have the decency to inform people you are doing so.

Carcharodon

matthew8 wrote: »

This is pure ignorance. The democrats owned the slaves. The republicans abolished slavery, and then the democrats brought in Jim Crow.

I'm not a racist of a Ronald Reagan fan. Also, if you can't spell his last name, call him Ronald Wilson.

The thing is, there's a decent chance I'll be emigrating, which is part of my interest in the US.

I think everyone owned the slaves young man, does it matter to you if it was Democrats or Republicans, that seems like a rather childish view of things.

Sorry I spelled his name wrong, you are obviously not mature enough yet to not focus on the irrelevant things but try and gain some little victories via a message board over a speling :rolleyes:

karma_

Amerika wrote: »

And what does that make you... Show me where I said what you quoted me as saying "Obama is a Marxist." If you are going to misquote me, at least have the decency to inform people you are doing so.

You changed the previous post to say it, and followed up with;

'I changed that around for you in order for it to be more accurate sentiment.'

I was under the impression that mucking around with posts like that breached the rules here also, so no need to be a prime pedant about it.. eh?

Carcharodon

Amerika wrote: »

And what does that make you... Show me where I said what you quoted me as saying "Obama is a Marxist." If you are going to misquote me, at least have the decency to inform people you are doing so.

Ah..........ok.......It was like twenty minutes ago, if you are going to lie at least make it big like weapons of mass destruction and such, have they not taught you anything.

Amerika

karma_ wrote: »

You changed the previous post to say it, and followed up with;



I was under the impression that mucking around with posts like that breached the rules here also, so no need to be a prime pedant about it.. eh?

I changed some of the wording, and explained that I changed it, crossed out the changes so people could see the original content, and even bolded the changes so as not to have any confusion. Do you not see the difference?

karma_

Amerika wrote: »

I changed some of the wording, and explained that I changed it, crossed out the changes so people could see the original content, and even bolded the changes so as not to have any confusion. Do you not see the difference?

You're just back peddling now, not only did you change a post to 'make it more accurate', you followed up with another post that clearly indicated that it is your belief that Obama is a Marxist.

Also, you obviously have no understanding of logic, nor irony.

Carcharodon

Amerika wrote: »

I changed some of the wording, and explained that I changed it, crossed out the changes so people could see the original content, and even bolded the changes so as not to have any confusion. Do you not see the difference?

Yes but do you ?

Amerika

Carcharodon wrote: »

Yes but do you ?

Yes.

Carcharodon

Amerika wrote: »

Yes.

I am both :eek: and but as always I am

Entertaining if anything.

Amerika

Carcharodon wrote: »

I am both :eek: and but as always I am

Ahhhh.... shock, yaw and guffaw?

Carcharodon

Amerika wrote: »

Ahhhh.... shock, yaw and guffaw?

Best part is that you hold true to your values and ignore everything. I love it

AhSureTisGrand

Amerika wrote: »

And what does that make you... Show me where I said what you quoted me as saying "Obama is a Marxist." If you are going to misquote me, at least have the decency to inform people you are doing so.

Fine then. Post edited

Amerika

Carcharodon wrote: »

Best part is that you hold true to your values and ignore everything. I love it

Or as I would rather put it... "An expert is someone who has succeeded in making decisions and judgements simpler through knowing what to pay attention to and what to ignore." -- Edward de Bono

AhSureTisGrand

Amerika wrote: »

Or as I would rather put it... "An expert is someone who has succeeded in making decisions and judgements simpler through knowing what to pay attention to and what to ignore." -- Edward de Bono

Sadly I fear this may be somewhat lacking

Amerika

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

*
*Disclaimer: this is not a direct quote. Amerika did not post the sentence "Obama is a Marxist"
He merely "changed that around for you (Carcharodon) in order for it (Carcharodon's post) to be more accurate sentiment". Contained in the aforementioned sentiment is an allegation that Barack Obama, the 44th President of The United States of America, heretofore to be referred to as Obama, is a Marxist.**

Thanks for the attempt, but actually I was noting what a more acurate feeling of many republicans view Barack Obama as. (I'm not so kind... I actually believe Barack Obama leans more towards being a Socialist - by US standards that is)

**It is also worth noting that Amerika in a later post said, "Obama can be considered a Marxist".

Selective editing... but that’s okay. The entire quote was "Ever since the 2008 election, there have been numerous writings explaining why Barack Obama can be considered a Marxist."

matthew8

I think everyone owned the slaves young man, does it matter to you if it was Democrats or Republicans, that seems like a rather childish view of things.

The republicans were the ones who ended slavery, the democrats fought tooth and nail to defend this, they lost but did not give up and made more racist laws.

Sorry I spelled his name wrong, you are obviously not mature enough yet to not focus on the irrelevant things but try and gain some little victories via a message board over a speling :rolleyes:

I just think it's disrespectful, a bit like that guy on p.ie who likes to say "Barak Hussein". You also seem to be keen to focus on the more minor points of my posts.

conrow

Amerika wrote: »

Maybe by european standards, but not by US standards.

By european standards, the only people who are considered Marxists are actual Marxists.

Barack Obama is not anywhere near a Marxist or socialist by any standard.

Just because opinion about the ideologies is different across the Atlantic does not make the definition of the words any different.

First post bitches!!!!

Amerika

conrow wrote: »

By european standards, the only people who are considered Marxists are actual Marxists.

Barack Obama is not anywhere near a Marxist or socialist by any standard.

Just because opinion about the ideologies is different across the Atlantic does not make the definition of the words any different.

First post bitches!!!!

Welcome... You may be a newbie, but you sound like an old pro at this.

Carcharodon

matthew8 wrote: »

The republicans were the ones who ended slavery, the democrats fought tooth and nail to defend this, they lost but did not give up and made more racist laws.

I just think it's disrespectful, a bit like that guy on p.ie who likes to say "Barak Hussein". You also seem to be keen to focus on the more minor points of my posts.

I honestly think you should see beyond the whole Republican v Democrat rhetoric when it comes to things like slavery. Why would it matter as to which party ended slavery ? Any concept of right of right versus wrong is only a cultural concept relative to a specific time and place, we can safely say that neither the left or right covered themselves in glory in the period of slavery. I am just happy that it ended and if the Republicans want to claim victory for it then so be it, the end result is what matters don't you think ?

I am sorry if leaving an "a" out of his name caused you to feel disrespected and obviously it is the very same as calling the President of the United States "Barak Hussein" any mature adult will be able to relate the two :rolleyes:
The only reason i focused on your minor points was it was the only point you made.
I apologize if any of my posts offended you, feel free to message me with any grievances, a personal appeal would be more beneficial rather than an automated warning

Amerika

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Sadly I fear this may be somewhat lacking

Yeah, I agree. "Expert" is pushing it a bit too far.

Overheal

I've since stopped caring about caucus politics. You all of course release it's all a giant smoke screen to drum up a bunch of publicity and billions of dollars in campaign contributions, all the while dancing around having to focus on Romney as the next president too early. All these other jokers are just appetizers to stop people from finishing with Romney too soon, so that he will still stand half a chance at voting out Obama once this thing really starts going down.

Just saying. The whole thing is a show.

kenco

Its going to be Romney and all thats left now is - possibly critically - the running mate. Romney has all the way through this (and it could be argued 2008) been 'normal'. The fact that the GOP has come up with a bunch of loons as possible alternatives demonstrates that they deep down know Romney is their best (though limited) chance....

Lets face it he would have done better than McCain in 2008 while losing. The general perception is that your average 'joe public' US voter is ill informed and apathetic is not true. A lot of same voters looked at McCain in 2008 and thought nice guy but getting on a bit. In Romney they see someone who rightly or wrongly they respect and regard as Presidential. He is the alternative to Obama in most US eyes and while he may not win he will certainly put it up to Obama and might even pull it off.....

Still think he needs a strong VP and I would think David Partreus (i.e. General) fits the bill

jank

In fairness I think they are all pretty weak! I can see Obama getting another 4 years.

sarumite

matthew8 wrote: »

Is it illogical to complain about higher unemployment? Is it illogical to complain about increasing the national debt by trillions and the deficit by billions?

It is illogical to attribute these genuine compaints solely to Obama. Unemployment was rocketing before he took office as was the national debt/deficit. You can complain that maybe he hasn't done enough to solve these problems, though I think both major parties share that burdon.

Is it illogical to complain about people being forced to buy health insurance if they don't want it?

This could be a legitimate complaint. I say could because the access to healthcare in America was a problem and needed changing (and yes it was. America might have the best healthcare in the world, but if a large proportion of people cannot access it then it becomes a problem). Republicans had 8 years to try and fix it their way and didn't. Now they complain because someone chose to do it a different way to them.

You're just defending him because he's a democrat.

I do love ad hominem's. I suppose a person could equally argue that you are just attacking him because he's a democrat.

Also, we have to stop all this "republicans are racist" rubbish. It destroys any logical argument.

As soon as we stop "democrats are marxists" rubbish as it has the same effect.

Amerika

jank wrote: »

In fairness I think they are all pretty weak! I can see Obama getting another 4 years.

I dunno. When you start having diehard Obama supporters like Chris Matthews giving interviews like this about our president who chooses to lead from behind, I think it's time for worry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4b11_LREA&feature=player_embedded
After a closer look, it appears the tingle feeling was just a reaction to some tinkle.

jackiebaron

sarumite wrote: »

It is illogical to attribute these genuine compaints solely to Obama. Unemployment was rocketing before he took office as was the national debt/deficit. You can complain that maybe he hasn't done enough to solve these problems, though I think both major parties share that burdon.

This could be a legitimate complaint. I say could because the access to healthcare in America was a problem and needed changing (and yes it was. America might have the best healthcare in the world, but if a large proportion of people cannot access it then it becomes a problem). Republicans had 8 years to try and fix it their way and didn't. Now they complain because someone chose to do it a different way to them.
I do love ad hominem's. I suppose a person could equally argue that you are just attacking him because he's a democrat.
As soon as we stop "democrats are marxists" rubbish as it has the same effect.

I had full medical coverage when I lived in the US and availed of it a few times when I sustained sports injuries and also when I hurt myself on a camping trip.
I can tell you right now that the quality of healthcare there doesn't come close to the excellent service I received when I needed medical attention in Holland or Germany. Best in the world? Not from what I've seen.

20Cent

Gingrich is after calling child labour laws stupid and wants poor kids to work as janitors in their own schools. Looks like Romney might come back.