Dealing with casual racism......

LegacyUser

Hi,

As you can guess from the title, I am trying to have a go in a roundabout way of people who use the "N" word for black people. I absolutely detest the word, and it makes my skin crawl every time I hear it.

A few friends of mine would occasionally use it, when telling a joke for example.
They would never slag off people off different skin colours to me, or on tv, outside etc. They would never use this word in public, in the pub, with strangers, having a chat. But sometimes when in the house on my own, and a joke might come up, they will use it, and I detest each time. I would love to flip out and say "you ignorant pr1cks, stop using it!!", but I know I'll start a big debate and argument. I think the fact I have let it slide for so long, it's only going to make it worse.

How do I bring it up? I heard it again tonight, and was going to say "man, I hate that word, I detest that word...." I know if I bring it up, a big debate will start "I'm only having a laugh etc etc" will be wheeled out.....

LeeHoffmann

sometimes you have to have those awkward discussions. Break an egg to make an omelette and all that. But you don't have to be confrontational about it (or flip out) if you don't want to. Just tell your friends that you really hate that word and think he/she shouldn't use it. If your friend says he/she doesn't mean it/is only having a laugh etc, just say that you understand but you'd still much prefer they don't use it. If you want/need to explain that the word is offensive, racist etc, then do. It's up to you what tone of voice and how direct/confrontational you want to be. They'll probably continue as long as they think it's acceptable. Somebody telling them it is not acceptable might put an end to it - maybe it will take a bit of perseverance or a few other like-minded people to make the point clear, but definitely a step in the right direction.

im the same as you, i hate when people use that word, now i know they actually wouldnt use it in public either, but still, i dont like being present when that word is used and i would go absolutely beserk if anyone ever said it around my child.

I did have to have a word to my brother in law for this reason. Now i love a laugh and have what some people think is a bizzare sense of humour, but no human being deserves to be labelled in such derogatory terms. You just have to tell your friends (quite calmy) that it offends you and that its not appropriate for adults to address people like that and that you would appreciate if they didnt use that term, not just in your presence but in general. If they are rational and matue adults there will be no need for the "debate" you are fearing

LegacyUser

A friend of mine does this too.

He's an intelligent guys. Late 30s.

The odd time he uses it... I just say "dude, please don't use that word around me..... can't stand it".

That seems to work.

LegacyUser

yeah, I guess I am hoping for a complete stranger to pull them on it, but they wouldn't mention it or even discuss anything like that in front of strangers, it just seems to be "ah shur anything goes with you, you won't get offended", but I do.....

I am beginning to think that the fact that someone thinks it is ok in any situation to use the N word, then they must be racist?? I don't know....

hatecasualracism

hatecasualracism wrote: »

yeah, I guess I am hoping for a complete stranger to pull them on it, but they wouldn't mention it or even discuss anything like that in front of strangers, it just seems to be "ah shur anything goes with you, you won't get offended", but I do.....

I am beginning to think that the fact that someone thinks it is ok in any situation to use the N word, then they must be racist?? I don't know....

hi op, are you black? just wondering why you get personally offended by them using this term?

its one of those things isnt it, blacks can use it to describe themselves but other people cant use it because its racist. do you think your friends are racist? would they ever actually treat someone worse because of the colour of their skin?

maybe your being a bit too sensitive about this. just say 'jesus, i hate that word' or something like that, whats the problem? they are your friends, say what you feel.

unless of course you are black. and then maybe you should say that you feel offended. perhaps your friends just dont know.

Malari

If their attitude is 'you won't get offended' then you need to correct them and they shouldn't use these terms in front of you again. Everyone sort of knows what's acceptable in what company. You don't tell sex jokes in front of your boyfriends mother and you don't use racist slurs in front of people who are uncomfortable with it. Which is most people. Not sure why this guy hasn't copped yet, but you need to say in no uncertain terms you don't like it.

Stinicker

Racism is a personal choice and opinion like for example if a person decides to smoke, do drugs or vote for someone you might not like. You might not like the person saying racist words or being prejudiced but it is his opinion and he is entitled to it, you might not like to hear his views but similarly he might not like to hear your anti-racist views also.

People are too politically correct nowadays and if you feel so strongly about it then confront the guy however he will probably tell you to cop on or even worse tell you the "F" word. He in airing his opinion in private company either hardly like that film "Die Hard with Vengence" holding up a placard saying I hate "N".

These are just my opinions but someone telling me what words I can and cannot use would quickly lead to a souring of friendship.

Nodin_

First off, are you black? If not, you're getting offended on someone else's behalf. Which is a bit silly.

Secondly, are your friends who use this word black? Surely you would object to black people using the word, as well as whites. Otherwise you have double standards and are a hypocrite.

Censorship is a dangerous thing. Maybe Dubliners don't liked being called Jackeens. Maybe people from Cork object to being called culchies. Are you going to flip out every time somebody uses the word jackeen in a conversation? Nobody likes a controlling fascist.

LegacyUser

Nope, I am not black, neither are my friends. They have never treated anyone from a different background badly, nor would they, nor have they ever suggested doing it, but for some reason, when the N word is mentioned, it makes my skin crawl. I just detest that word so much........

!!!

Nodin_ wrote: »

First off, are you black? If not, you're getting offended on someone else's behalf. Which is a bit silly.

Secondly, are your friends who use this word black? Surely you would object to black people using the word, as well as whites. Otherwise you have double standards and are a hypocrite.

Censorship is a dangerous thing. Maybe Dubliners don't liked being called Jackeens. Maybe people from Cork object to being called culchies. Are you going to flip out every time somebody uses the word jackeen in a conversation? Nobody likes a controlling fascist.

You are absolutely ridiculous. It is extremely offensive for any human being to use that word in any situation. Also, weather you 'deem' it offensive or not is irrelevant. Paedophiles do not hurt me but they still piss me off, does that mean I'm getting "offended on someone else's behalf, and being silly"?

There is a big difference between culchie and the N word. I hope you are not a professional adult yet, as your attitude scares me.

By the way to the OP, if somebody was acting racist in my presence I would (and do) definitely clearly challenge them.

Deus Ex Machina

It is often the case that when somebody has a problem with a particular word and they make this known they are seen as a bit of a stuffy gimp. However in this instance I think you would be better off raising the issue because it seems to cause you a lot of concern. If you can communicate the depth of your feeling to your friends I am sure they will understand.

Personally I don't have a problem with the use of any particular word, it is more the intent behind it that matters to me. Somebody could be 100 times more offensive without using any of these magic words that people get upset about these days by expressing a genuine adherence to a racist belief. Words are just tools in my opinion.

Nodin_

Nodin_ wrote: »

First off, are you black? If not, you're getting offended on someone else's behalf. Which is a bit silly.

Secondly, are your friends who use this word black? Surely you would object to black people using the word, as well as whites. Otherwise you have double standards and are a hypocrite.

Censorship is a dangerous thing. Maybe Dubliners don't liked being called Jackeens. Maybe people from Cork object to being called culchies. Are you going to flip out every time somebody uses the word jackeen in a conversation? Nobody likes a controlling fascist.

Seriously? - so only black people have a right to be offended by the "N" word ? - EVERBODY has a right to be offended by the use of that word because it is referring to a person in the lowest most degrading of terms.

Theres a massive difference between calling a person a Jackeen / Culchie and calling them them the "N" word - one term is a mildly humorous cultural reference and the other is a means of reducing a person to the lowest form possible. Its the same as the terrible term used in reference to travellers and Gay people. I am not black or a traveller or gay but i take Massive offence on their behalf when thoses terms are used in my presence - and it is my obligation as a parent to do so - racism starts in the home most definately. My mother would have killed me if i used word like that to describe people, and she would have been right

Nodin_

^^^^^

LOL fight for your right to get offended YEAH!

I presume nobody here listens to rap music with its frequent and casual use of the word nigger, intended to offend other rappers. You can't control what people say. North Korea tries to do that - no criticising the government! OP you can try to bring it up with your friend quietly and calmly, but I wouldn't be surprised if he told you to eff off. Who are you to tell others what to do?

LegacyUser

If it bothers you OP then it's a real issue for you

Lots of us have issues that seem trivial to others but it bothers you so address on the spot with your friends.

I also suggest you stay away from rap music since this upsets you.

You would be having a meltdown if you listen to Jay-Z or Dr.Dre or lots of others

LegacyUser

I think you're being a bit too sensitive OP.

Basically you've admitted your friends aren't actually racist and that they don't say it during some kind of racist tirade. Basically they use the word jokingly.

You're going completely over the top. Your not a blackman living in 1950s America being racially abused, your friends dont even intend to use it in an offensive way. If anything your friends are simply making a mockery of a negative word.

Deus Ex Machina

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? - so only black people have a right to be offended by the "N" word ? - EVERBODY has a right to be offended by the use of that word because it is referring to a person in the lowest most degrading of terms.

Theres a massive difference between calling a person a Jackeen / Culchie and calling them them the "N" word - one term is a mildly humorous cultural reference and the other is a means of reducing a person to the lowest form possible. Its the same as the terrible term used in reference to travellers and Gay people. I am not black or a traveller or gay but i take Massive offence on their behalf when thoses terms are used in my presence - and it is my obligation as a parent to do so - racism starts in the home most definately. My mother would have killed me if i used word like that to describe people, and she would have been right

Most annoying thing ever written?

Farold

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? - so only black people have a right to be offended by the "N" word ? - EVERBODY has a right to be offended by the use of that word because it is referring to a person in the lowest most degrading of terms.

Theres a massive difference between calling a person a Jackeen / Culchie and calling them them the "N" word - one term is a mildly humorous cultural reference and the other is a means of reducing a person to the lowest form possible. Its the same as the terrible term used in reference to travellers and Gay people. I am not black or a traveller or gay but i take Massive offence on their behalf when thoses terms are used in my presence - and it is my obligation as a parent to do so - racism starts in the home most definately. My mother would have killed me if i used word like that to describe people, and she would have been right

:rolleyes:

OP, its not a big deal at all. Theres clearly no malice involved and no offense is intended. Its just a word that carries no weight unless the mouth that is saying it actually believes in its negative connotations. From the sounds of things your friends occasionally use the word in a joking manner in private in perhaps the same way that a person might make a controversial joke amongst friends rather than at a confrence meeting.

Malari

The point is, I have friends who I can say anything in front of and I have friends who I know would take offence to certain terms. If one of them took me aside and said they didn't like a certain slang word then I wouldn't say it in front of them again. It's a matter of respect, but I won't just stop using the word in front of others who are ok with it.

Ickle Magoo

Nodin_ & Deus Ex Machina - please desist from getting into petty squabbles - report posts or posters in breach of forum/site rules otherwise take it to PM.

This is an advice forum - replies should be on topic and helpful to the OP - please be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

LegacyUser

So a lot of you seem to be suggesting that if someone was telling you a joke for example, and said "A n**ger walks into a bar......" instead of "A black man walks into a bar......." you would think nothing of it???

LegacyUser

Is that what they're saying? I'd have a problem with that. From the way you construed your post however it seemed like they were saying n*i*gger in a joking manner or using the word as part of the joke. I suppose describing someone as a n*i*gger when its not actually needed for the joke is a bit racist.

indough

what would it matter if they used that specific word? a racist joke is racist either way

LegacyUser

I'm the poster who said that the language someone uses is a personal choice. Yes, it's not pretty, but it certainly doesn't sound like they're trying to hurt anyone with it. When I lived in America my white friends would call themselves ****. It's hard to explain the context but it came with a very heavy dose of irony. They also described a minority of black people as ****, only criminal types, not regular people. And of course my black friends used the word all the time too. It seems that this word has developed different meanings over the years.
But that's not even my point. You know when someone is using a word to hurt another. Is this how your friends have used it? Really?
And I strongly believe that it's not right to censor private conversations. People talk nonsense to let off steam. It seems like you are taking everything very literally.
If you must, tell them once you're not into it. But don't become the language police. Because by suppressing certain words, you are giving those words more power to hurt. That's why the blacks originally reclaimed the N word, and the gays reclaimed 'queer', so they could neutralise the power of these words to hurt. Think about it. Now personally, because we all speak the same language, I don't think that one section of society can then go tell they other that only they are allowed use it, especially because my reclaiming the word, they've already changed it's meaning.
Also, if someone I knew was telling others what they shouldn't say, I would consider that person boring and priggish. We all know we're not 'supposed to' say the n word or make paedo jokes - that's why we do it! Get it?

LegacyUser

indough wrote: »

what would it matter if they used that specific word? a racist joke is racist either way

well, yes, you're right, but there is no "ah shur I'm only joking" way about it......

ziedth

I'm with the people who think you are a little overreacting. If they don't say it in public and don't treat any black people differently then they are not racis(that some have called them)t all they are doing is saying jokes that could offend people. The term racist gets thrown around way to much these days.

Anyway, how often would this happen? I mean myself and the lads have this kind of running joke behind closed doors that we are really racist when we are anything but. Granted we wouldn't say the "N" word much if at all and I can understand you'd be upset if it was a few times a night everytime you saw them. But, if someone only says it once only every couple of weeks to be honest I'd leave it off. Out of interest would a racist joke without the word annoy you?

If you can't take it anymore don't make a big stand against it like you said they are your friends and at the end of the day are only having a laugh behind closed doors. I'd suggest the next time it is said in a half joking way just say you know what I really hate that word.

Good luck.

A word is just a word, especially when there's no malice behind it. Calling someone a Jackeen/Culchie can be as bad as the N-word, especially if there is the same level of malice behind them.

I, for instance, love the C-word, but only say it when I know the people I'm around are not offended by it. If they're not, then it's C-word this, C-word that. However, if they don't like the word then I won't say it.

Are you offended by the use of the N-word or racist jokes in general?

Just tell your friends you dislike this word and if they continue to say it in your company, then they're being extraordinarily ignorant.

LegacyUser

Banning a word is like inviting people to use it. I gaurantee they are using it precisely because it's a subversive thing to do. People get a thrill out of what's forbidden. A small thrill in this case, but still. It's not they don't know it's not pc, right? So what are you really 'teaching' them by banning this word in your presence?
I find it's always better to lead by example than go around telling other people what to do.

LegacyUser

I wouldn't be a fan of racist jokes. It's not my type of humour. Saying that I would tell a few Paddy Irishman, Scotsman etc jokes......(I'm Irish)

Eric Cartman

OP if you ask your mates to not use the word around you its as far as you can go , I love casual racism and racist jokes are hillarious , im a big fan of racial slurs as many people on here know, but I have friends who are not comfortable with it and I dont make any of these remarks around them (unless in my own house, in my house its my descision)

WindSock

If a person uses the word nigger, it doesn't automatically make them a racist. It completely depends on the context. It's just that it has managed to become the most taboo words in the English language and a lot of people are very uncomfortable when it us used. Kinda counter productive as there is is more power given to the word than what its worth.

crazygeryy

I only use the n word when I'm telling a joke with the n word in it.but if one of my friends said please don't use it in front of me I wouldn't.but i dont consider myself racist.how many paddy jokes or kerry man jokes are there.i couldn't care less if someone told one of them to me.

vicecreamsundae

OP, I know that if I were in your shoes, what would make me feel really uncomfortable is that by saying nothing it appears as if you agree with their usage of the word.
If it bothers you so much (and apparently it does) then next time they say it, call them out. I recommend having something better to say than "I just detest that word, it makes my skin crawl!" though. Point out why you find it problematic, tell them it makes them sound ignorant, or whatever.

As for the whole "I tell n***** jokes but I'm totally not racist" spiel, I think Jay Smooth does a pretty good job of talking about that. <Mod Snip>

Taltos

OP - you have received a wealth of advice here.
The next step is up to you - either accept your friends for who and what they are or speak to them about how uncomfortable they make you feel.

Closing this thread.
Taltos