Huge mark up by Irish retailers

Donie75

I'm thinking of building up a carbon bike over the winter and I've started looking at frames. I did some research online and found a UK company selling well respected carbon frames at good prices. The two levels of frame I looked at were both built in Asia but by all accounts they are a good company with good quality standards.
Then I dropped into a large Irish retailer and they had the same frames for sale. I couldn't believe the price difference.
Frame 1 was €583 direct from the UK but €850 in Ireland
Frame 2 was €699 direct from the UK but €1150 in Ireland.
This was a 45% and 65% mark up from the UK. Even if you factor in delivery charges it's still a rip off.
I hadn't seen such blatant robbery in this area before.

Bluefoam

You see, the reason for the huge variation in price has to do with regional economics... The supplier in the UK has a large market base and greater sales at a lower margin. The retailer in Ireland has a smaller buyer base, more costly overheads and a villa in Orlando which was bought during the celtic tiger - when owning a small business (like driving a taxi) was equal to running a multination computer firm...

Lumen

It's only robbery if you don't consent to it.

Consensual robbery is charity.

Jawgap

Donie75 wrote: »

...... Even if you factor in delivery charges it's still a rip off.
I hadn't seen such blatant robbery in this area before.

Strictly speaking it's not robbery - robbery is theft through violence or the threat of violence.

What you've got there is an example of gouging - unfortunately we all have to pay taxes, and that includes the Paddy Tax for those too lazy to use the d'interweb to source better deal from other sellers outside the state.

I always thought it was worth paying the extra just to get the service from the LBS;)

feck sake lads

so have you got a link to the uk company :rolleyes:

velo.2010

Lumen wrote: »

It's only robbery if you don't consent to it.

Consensual robbery is charity.

I would have though of charity as a selfless act - a spontaneous gesture of one with no reward! Open to correction.:)

I thought gambling could be construed as 'consensual robbery' in that handing over your money in the hope of some greater or equal return(that usually doesn't happen). Same with the purchase of an item on the black market for instance, the goods don't meet your expectation but thats the risk you took.

Interesting mind have you Lumen. he says with Yoda-like spirit.

granda

i'm in the same position as the op ie bike build next year, the only difference is i cant get the frame i want in this country which is ok but the groupset i want has about 5 different prices from 5 different online retailers and could be cheaper if i bought it all individually from different retailers but i also use my lbs for some stuff as it may be a bit dearer but there is someone there to advise me and if i have a problem with anything its just a quick trip down there instead of sending it back(postage and hassle) and so far i,ve always been well looked after

cipo

All valid points... I think this could be valid for lots of products we buy in Ireland vs UK..

I like having my LBS for jobs I can't do, chat, advice etc.. A lot to be said for LBS!! Online shops have been getting a lot better with returns etc too which was always an issue years ago!!

I think I've come full circle - from starting out making LBS purchases to learning interwebnets is cheaper for bits and then back to the virtues of the LBS are not to be forgotten especially in a crisis when you need time, advice, service etc.

What they lose in price wars, LBS should make up for in service, friendliness etc... I suppose they ll never be able to compete price wise with online.

Lumen

velo.2010 wrote: »

I would have though of charity as a selfless act - a spontaneous gesture of one with no reward! Open to correction.:)

I thought gambling could be construed as 'consensual robbery' in that handing over your money in the hope of some greater or equal return(that usually doesn't happen).

I don't have any beef with charitable acts, I was just trying to make the point (badly) that paying over the odds in an Irish bike shop is more like an act of charity than robbery.

el tel

Buying overpriced goods in Ireland is reverse prostitution. You give them the money and they **** you.

TontoMurphy

feck sake lads wrote: »

so have you got a link to the uk company :rolleyes:

Still waiting on link...

velo.2010

el tel wrote: »

reverse prostitution. You give them the money and they **** you.

Isn't that just prostitution?

Icyseanfitz

crazy enough all right, a friend of mine got a specilized allez last year, it had a sora groupset and some cheapo wheels, he paid 1000 euro for that in a lbs bloody rip off if you ask me, its probably got to do with taxes and a willingness to rip people off

G2ECE

velo.2010 wrote: »

Isn't that just prostitution?

I guess its all about frame of mind really and what you look for from your service provider.

Leroy42

It does seem that cycling seems to be one of only a few sectors which the recession hasn't really affected.

Unlike many other areas of retail, prices for bikes, componets etc seems to be going up (online as well as LBS)

My guess is that the BTW scheme has helped the LBS to make a killing. Many of the customers really do not have an idea what they are buying, only interested in maximising the spend to €1000, price really isn't an issue.

However, I think if you tell your LBS about the price differences they make make some concessions (don't expect a price match as that is unfair but certainly something closer).

If they don't, well at least you gave them the option. Buy the frame, bits n pieces etc and then drop them all down to them to get it built up for a small (100) service fee. Their loss

fran oconnor

Lumen wrote: »

It's only robbery if you don't consent to it.

Consensual robbery is charity.

This is the reason Canyon get my money every time.

vvvooo

Leroy42 wrote: »

My guess is that the BTW scheme has helped the LBS to make a killing. Many of the customers really do not have an idea what they are buying, only interested in maximising the spend to €1000, price really isn't an issue.

good point. I always though the BTW scheme should be scrapped ...not a bad idea in principle but it distorts the market, and its not fair on the general taxpayer that people buty theior triathlon bike and sports gear + kids bike thrown in free, all at the taxpayers expense. The government can do with the money / lower taxes overall / put the vat on bikes towards taking people off hospital trolleys.

ba

it has to be said that with more people cycling to work people are getting healthier which in turn puts less pressure on our hospitals.

greenmat

I buy everything I need for cycling on-line. Have now started to buy tools to do my own servicing and upgrading. Plenty of videos and Tutorials on-line showing you how. And plenty of advice here on Boards, what could go wrong

feck sake lads

greenmat wrote: »

I buy everything I need for cycling on-line. Have now started to buy tools to do my own servicing and upgrading. Plenty of videos and Tutorials on-line showing you how. And plenty of advice here on Boards, what could go wrong

what can go wrong famous last words.:D:D

Orlock

they are obvioulsly getting the money they are looking for or the market wold have dictated a lower margin, makes you wonder what other retailers and products are out there at way over the odds . . .

Beasty

vvvooo wrote: »

good point. I always though the BTW scheme should be scrapped ...not a bad idea in principle but it distorts the market, and its not fair on the general taxpayer that people buty theior triathlon bike and sports gear + kids bike thrown in free, all at the taxpayers expense. The government can do with the money / lower taxes overall / put the vat on bikes towards taking people off hospital trolleys.

From what I've seen, most users of the BTW scheme comply with the spirit (and letter) of the law. For those that don't, it's absolutely no different in principle to any other type of tax evasion.

The cost of the scheme to the general taxpayer is minimal compared to most other tax breaks out there (the annual cost will almost certainly decline through the initial 5 year period as the "pool" of potential purchasers decreases).

The scheme certainly increases the overall VAT take, as VAT is not recoverable on BTW bikes (except possibly in very rare situations where the bike is used within a business)

midonogh

I always try to buy from the LBS where possible. However, I am getting my son an Islabike for Christmas. I was telling the owner in my LBS almost apologising and he said not to worry at all as LBS make nothing on childrens bikes. Halfords and Smyths BSO's set the ceiling on childrens bike prices and there is no money to be made.

More generally, small LBS take their supply from large distributors like Centro and are price takers rather than setters. I think a considerable part of the mark up over UK prices is taken up by the manufacturers selling into Ireland at a higher price and the distributor taking a chunk.

I know three small LBS owners fairly well. I see all three working long hours in the shops themselves and none of them appears to be coining it in.

There is no doubt that bikes here are more expensive than the UK but it is not the LBS that is creaming it.

Jawgap

vvvooo wrote: »

good point. I always though the BTW scheme should be scrapped ...not a bad idea in principle but it distorts the market, and its not fair on the general taxpayer that people buty theior triathlon bike and sports gear + kids bike thrown in free, all at the taxpayers expense. The government can do with the money / lower taxes overall / put the vat on bikes towards taking people off hospital trolleys.

So, if the Cycle to Work scheme went, then what - lower taxes, no more trolleys in A&Es??????

C3PO

midonogh wrote: »

I know three small LBS owners fairly well. I see all three working long hours in the shops themselves and none of them appears to be coining it in.

There is no doubt that bikes here are more expensive than the UK but it is not the LBS that is creaming it.

I agree entirely - I also know a good few people in the bike business in Ireland and none of them appear to making any fortunes!

greenmat

feck sake lads wrote: »

what can go wrong famous last words.:D:D

Excited to give it a go but hope I have no problems. It would be tail between the legs and back to LBS with all the bits in a bag. In fairness all stores I have dealt with have been very good with info and advice,

Donie75

I suppose I should quantify my original post a bit more. I am a regular shopper in my LBS and they give great service. I've noticed a few items over the last year that surprised me but these were mainly the big bike superstores that were the biggest culprits. I bought a rear mudguard in wheelworx and paid €13.50 for it. It was €10.50 in my LBS and on a weekend away in Westport it was €9.50.
Then I was in Wheelworx looking around the other day. I had been looking at the Dolan Bikes website. The Mythos is their basic carbon bike.
The Mythos frameset was €583 direct from the UK but €850 in Ireland
The Hercules SE frameset was €699 direct from the UK but €1150 in Ireland.
I could understand around a €50 to €100 price difference due to transport and extra duties, etc. but this takes the biscuit.

tunney

cipo wrote: »

What they lose in price wars, LBS should make up for in service, friendliness etc... I suppose they ll never be able to compete price wise with online.

*should*

tunney

Donie75 wrote: »

I suppose I should quantify my original post a bit more. I am a regular shopper in my LBS and they give great service. I've noticed a few items over the last year that surprised me but these were mainly the big bike superstores that were the biggest culprits. I bought a rear mudguard in wheelworx and paid €13.50 for it. It was €10.50 in my LBS and on a weekend away in Westport it was €9.50.
Then I was in Wheelworx looking around the other day. I had been looking at the Dolan Bikes website. The Mythos is their basic carbon bike.
The Mythos frameset was €583 direct from the UK but €850 in Ireland
The Hercules SE frameset was €699 direct from the UK but €1150 in Ireland.
I could understand around a €50 to €100 price difference due to transport and extra duties, etc. but this takes the biscuit.

250 euro difference price in Tacx Flows as well from d'internet.

Wheely GR8

Everyones entitled to earn a crust ,when a dolan frame is sold here the uk probably sells fourthy of them.

bcmf

As my lbs told me a while back when in a conversation about buying online and how they felt and was told that buying wholesale here can be and is a lot of the time more expensive then buying retail abroad.

Bikerbhoy

midonogh wrote: »

I always try to buy from the LBS where possible. However, I am getting my son an Islabike for Christmas. I was telling the owner in my LBS almost apologising and he said not to worry at all as LBS make nothing on childrens bikes. Halfords and Smyths BSO's set the ceiling on childrens bike prices and there is no money to be made.

More generally, small LBS take their supply from large distributors like Centro and are price takers rather than setters. I think a considerable part of the mark up over UK prices is taken up by the manufacturers selling into Ireland at a higher price and the distributor taking a chunk.

I know three small LBS owners fairly well. I see all three working long hours in the shops themselves and none of them appears to be coining it in.

There is no doubt that bikes here are more expensive than the UK but it is not the LBS that is creaming it.

I think the above clarifies the situation very well and states reality.

Tenzor07

Just to add to this.. On the likes of Shimano parts, a few retailers such as CycleSuperstore or Expert Cycles are pretty much the same price as any of the big UK online bike stores...

....And if you include purchasing and fitting in the likes of Expert cycles then you are saving money over buying online.. And that includes things such as fitting of tubeless mtb tyres... Also most wheelsets are machine built so unless you are handy with a spoke wrench then its back to your LBS where you start to loose all the money you have saved..

Centro do control the prices of say Trek bikes... Though I have a 2012 Giant TCR on order thats pretty much the same price in my LBS as is online, when you include free fitting and tune up's/warranty then you are loosing money buying in from the UK....

Of course you will get some real bargains on frames and end of line parts online, but for example it may only be in a XL frame size or non-standard steerer tube size...

smacl

Beasty wrote: »

From what I've seen, most users of the BTW scheme comply with the spirit (and letter) of the law. For those that don't, it's absolutely no different in principle to any other type of tax evasion.

The cost of the scheme to the general taxpayer is minimal compared to most other tax breaks out there (the annual cost will almost certainly decline through the initial 5 year period as the "pool" of potential purchasers decreases).

The scheme certainly increases the overall VAT take, as VAT is not recoverable on BTW bikes (except possibly in very rare situations where the bike is used within a business)

Ì'd guess (and it is just a guess) that the major amount of money lost to the exchequer on the BTW scheme is lost revenue on fuel duties from those using the scheme as intended, which is of course a good thing, much like a successful anti-smoking or anti-drinking campaign. If it helps the LBS as well as the public at large that's all to the good.

The government can do with the money / lower taxes overall / put the vat on bikes towards taking people off hospital trolleys.

Worth remembering that the next big health scare is obesity related diabetes, which apart from anything else, is set to cost the tax payer a fortune. As a nation one of the biggest health savings we can make, in addition to using less booze and fags, is to take more exercise. I'd love to see a bike to school scheme to complement the BTW, where we get in decent kids bikes and get them and the SUV mums to cycle more.

Lumen

smacl wrote: »

As a nation one of the biggest health savings we can make, in addition to using less booze and fags, is to take more exercise.

And/or eat less food. Eating less food is definitely cheaper and more time efficient than eating more food, and requires no special equipment.

ckeego

smacl wrote: »

Worth remembering that the next big health scare is obesity related diabetes, which apart from anything else, is set to cost the tax payer a fortune. As a nation one of the biggest health savings we can make, in addition to using less booze and fags, is to take more exercise. I'd love to see a bike to school scheme to complement the BTW, where we get in decent kids bikes and get them and the SUV mums to cycle more.

I couldn't agree more! There's some cracking looking SUV Mom's around...If only they'd take off the 50/50 sunglasses and see where they are driving, it might mean a few less hospital trollies in use too...

Bring on the Assos Mom's, I say!!