On the bubble Hall of Famers

themont85

Was thinking this through earlier. A lot of Chicago Bears guys came to mind. Hester, Urlacher and Peppers are certainly already in the discussion. Perhaps Lance Briggs in time.

From other teams like the Colts I think Manning, Saturday are locks whilst you have bubble guys like Freeney and Wayne.

matthew8

The Ravens have a lot: Lewis and Reed are locks while Ngata is likely if he can remain the top DT for the next few years.

FreeOSCAR

IMO Definites are Woodson, Brady, Lewis, Reed, Urlacher, Manning, Adam Viniteri, Tomlinson. Then you have the likes of Jason Taylor, Suggs, Big Ben, Polomalu, Hester, Hines Ward, AP, Demarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Champ Bailey who will all be in discussion.

themont85

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

IMO Definites are Woodson, Brady, Lewis, Reed, Urlacher, Manning, Adam Viniteri, Tomlinson. Then you have the likes of Jason Taylor, Suggs, Big Ben, Polomalu, Hester, Hines Ward, AP, Demarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Champ Bailey who will all be in discussion.

In terms of DEs you're right there with Ware being ahead of say Peppers/Freeney in the discussion. Thing about a guy like Peppers though is that his numbers don't back up the high standard of his play. He is just so versatile and easily the best athlete of the three. He'll need close to a 20 sack year in the next 4 to have a chance.

Hines Ward may be unfortunate that his numbers too don't back up his place. How do we quantify blocking which he has been the best WR around for a decade nearly? With TO, Andre Johnson, Megatron, Larry Fitzerald, Jennings behind him he may be unlucky. Cris Carter and Tim Brown still aren't there for God's sakes!

If Hester gets a few more returns I think he has to go in. He is just an impact player. This nonsense over skill players being ignored is just silly. If you're the best in your position you should get in. Nobody comes close to Hester, one commentator was saying this week that the gap between Hester and the field is bigger than that of Jerry Rice and the other WRs.:eek:

spiralism

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

IMO Definites are Woodson, Brady, Lewis, Reed, Urlacher, Manning, Adam Viniteri, Tomlinson. Then you have the likes of Jason Taylor, Suggs, Big Ben, Polomalu, Hester, Hines Ward, AP, Demarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Champ Bailey who will all be in discussion.

Bias alert but if Champ Bailey doesnt get in with the career he's had it'll be a disgrace. Absolute nailed on and belongs with the players in the first bracket, should be a first ballot tbh. Woodson couldnt dream of being as good as him, he just had the good fortune to be on very good teams a lot of the time. That's not saying he isnt class either but Champ has been with us through what's hardly our golden era.

10 pro bowls, most ever by a CB (good chance of 11 this year)
Did not give up a TD in coverage in 06 season, 09 season
In 06 season he was tested 35 times total, allowing 4 catches but ten INTs.
50 INTs

matthew8

Surely Shane Lechler deserves a spot. 8 pro bowls, highest punting yards average in history.

eagle eye

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

IMO Definites are Woodson, Brady, Lewis, Reed, Urlacher, Manning, Adam Viniteri, Tomlinson. Then you have the likes of Jason Taylor, Suggs, Big Ben, Polomalu, Hester, Hines Ward, AP, Demarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Champ Bailey who will all be in discussion.

Highlighted ones are all certainties imo, and the rest will get in too I think.

FreeOSCAR

Also Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates.

Peyton Manning

James Harrison too, and his induction speech would be must-see TV.

Lirange

I notice the distinct lack of O-linemen in these lists. Criminally underrated position. The fact that many think Will Shields won't be voted to the Hall on the first ballot further proves it. Orlando Pace, Jeff Saturday, and Steve Hutchinson are among the linemen that have a genuine shot.

death1234567

Lirange wrote: »

Steve Hutchinson are among the linemen that have a genuine shot.

Shouldn't even be a question. Played for the Seahawks when Shaun alexander was 1,000+ yard rusher. Moved to Vikings and blocked for C.Taylor and A. Peterson. One of the best O-linemen ever.

Dodge

Yeah, he'll get in. So ill most of the ones above
Of these

Then you have the likes of Jason Taylor, Suggs, Big Ben, Polomalu, Hester, Hines Ward, AP, Demarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Champ Bailey who will all be in discussion.

I'd imagine most will be OK. Certainly players like bailey, AP and Polomalu will be absolute locks

As lock as Kurt Warner gets in I don't care...

tallaghtoutlaws

Offensive linemen in my mind off the top of my head who will have a shot of getting in:

No order:

Flozell Adams
Steve Hutchinson
Orlando Pace
Matt Light
Jeff Saturday
Kevin Mawae
Brian Waters
Logan Mankins
Brian Waters
Chris Samuels
Joe Thomas

Chucky the tree

Just from the names mentioned in this thread

Definites:Urlacher,Reed,Lewis,Manning,Jason Taylor, Woodson, Brady, Polamalu, Demarcus Ware, Champ Bailey, Steven hutchinson, Orlando Pace, Tony Gonzalaez, Antonio Gates, Tomlison,

Good chance/Make if they keep producing as they are capable of: Joe Thoams, Jake Long, Adrian Peterson, Ben Rothleisberger(needs better stars or another ring), Ngata, Kevin Mawae (certainly has the body of work just not the big name otherwise he'd be a difinite)

Unlikely: Heinze Ward, Flozell Adams, Jeff Saturday, Adam Vinteri,

Very unlikely: James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Brian Walters, Brian Waters, Chris Samuels,


Hester is a tough one because specialist positions like kickers, punters and returners are always shunned. He should be in though.

matthew8

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Just from the names mentioned in this thread

Definites:Urlacher,Reed,Lewis,Manning,Jason Taylor, Woodson, Brady, Polamalu, Demarcus Ware, Champ Bailey, Steven hutchinson, Orlando Pace, Tony Gonzalaez, Antonio Gates, Tomlison,

Good chance/Make if they keep producing as they are capable of: Joe Thoams, Jake Long, Adrian Peterson, Ben Rothleisberger(needs better stars or another ring), Ngata, Kevin Mawae (certainly has the body of work just not the big name otherwise he'd be a difinite)

Unlikely: Heinze Ward, Flozell Adams, Jeff Saturday, Adam Vinteri,

Very unlikely: James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Brian Walters, Brian Waters, Chris Samuels,


Hester is a tough one because specialist positions like kickers, punters and returners are always shunned. He should be in though.

I like that analysis, but I would have Saturday as definite. He gets a lot more publicity than most offensive linemen which should help him, and he plays to a HOF standard. I also agree that Suggs and Harrison are very unlikely because although they are both outstanding players they're not the best in their position.

Chucky the tree

matthew8 wrote: »

I like that analysis, but I would have Saturday as definite. He gets a lot more publicity than most offensive linemen which should help him, and he plays to a HOF standard. I also agree that Suggs and Harrison are very unlikely because although they are both outstanding players they're not the best in their position.

Don't think he's a definite at all. 5 pro bowls and 4 All pros over 13 years isn't good enough to be a HOFer imo, his big name and player for a Superbowl contenders nearly every year is what gives him an edge over some players. Kevin Mawae is a much better centre who should will make the HOF most likely and he played when Saturday did, 8 pro bowls and 8 all pros while being on the nfl team of the decade give him an excellent chance.

ReacherCreature

Cam Newton wrote: »

James Harrison too, and his induction speech would be must-see TV.

And that's a fine from Goodell!

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Offensive linemen in my mind off the top of my head who will have a shot of getting in:

No order:

Flozell Adams
Steve Hutchinson
Orlando Pace
Matt Light
Jeff Saturday
Kevin Mawae
Brian Waters
Logan Mankins
Brian Waters
Chris Samuels
Joe Thomas

I don't think Light is HOF material. Always rated better than he actually plays. Great player though but I can't see him getting to Canton.

D3PO

First of all regarding Linemen I cant believe noboidy has mentioned Nick Mangold for me hes in the conversation ahead of many of the linemen mentioned to get in.

I also didnt see Larry Fitzgerald name listed

also there are a lot of people listing a lot of "locks" on this thread. Let us not forget that there is a max of 7 inductees in a year and that has only happened 6 times since 1970 and that includes possible coaches etc aswell.

so yes there are a lot of great players listed here but they aint all gonna make it to Canton especialy if they dont make it in their first 2-3 nominations.

Also you need to remember other players recently retired that are likely to get in or at least be in the conversation

Shaun Alexander, Brett Farve, Kurt Warner, Tiki Barber, Jerome Bettis, Randy Moss, Micheal Strahan, Johnathon Ogden, Warren Sapp, Marvin Harrison, Junior Seau, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace and then coaches like Bill Cowher, Bill Parcels, .

Just put that full list together and then start dividing it out, then think of others that might then have retired and be eligible that might be in the discussion the likes of a potential Rodgers, AP etc etc.

hell there a lot of worthy guys

Its harder to get to Canton than people seem to appreciate here. Lots of great players listed mind you.

frostie500

D3PO wrote: »

Also you need to remember other players recently retired that are likely to get in or at least be in the conversation

Shaun Alexander, Brett Farve, Kurt Warner, Tiki Barber, Jerome Bettis, Randy Moss.

Its harder to get to Canton than people seem to appreciate here. Lots of great players listed mind you.

Good point about how difficult it is to get into the Hall. Look at players like Cris Carter and Andre Reed are still not in the hall, hopefully one of them gets in this year. Both of these guys have numbers similar or better to a lot of HoF players yet for the last four or so years havent been able to get the nod even though they have been finalists for each of these seasons. When you look at the players at reciever that will be under discussion in the coming years you have Tim Brown (finalist last year iirc) and then recent retirees such as Issac Bruce and Marvin Harrison who will each be given serious consideration. Add players like TO and its clear that there are lot of players at this position alone that would be worthy of the hall.

When we look past this you have to remember coaches like Bill Cowher, Bill Parchells and Tony Dungy are all hall elligible in the coming years and all are hall worthy.

Looking even at offensive and defensive lineman of recent vintage and there are sure-fire locks like Jon Ogdon, Walter Jones and Orlando Pace are the tackles that will come out in the next few years. Even guards are stacked with Larry Allen, Alan Faneca and Will Shields all due for discussion in the next few years. Then you've got the Jeff Saturday's, Steve Hutchinson's etc playing today that are nearing the end of their careers.

On the D-line side of things players like Michael Strahan and Jason Taylor in the next few years. Add in current players like Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Julius Peppers and its clear that there are lots of pure DEs looking to get in as well and thats not even considering the blitzing OLBs that are a hybrid of end and linebacker.

Inside the lines and there are players like Warren Sapp who is a sure fire Hall of Famer. Not too sure beyond that who else would be considered such in the league.

But from the small sample size of WR and lineman on both side of the trenches and its easy to illustrate just how difficult it is to be elected...at least with Tiki having refiled his papers we wont have to think of him for another five years minimum!

Jopari87

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Don't think he's a definite at all. 5 pro bowls and 4 All pros over 13 years isn't good enough to be a HOFer imo, his big name and player for a Superbowl contenders nearly every year is what gives him an edge over some players. Kevin Mawae is a much better centre who should will make the HOF most likely and he played when Saturday did, 8 pro bowls and 8 all pros while being on the nfl team of the decade give him an excellent chance.

There is actually a thread on the colt's forum at the moment discussing whether Saturday is HOF.

The consensus seems to be no, because of the likes of Mawae and Mangold, if he keeps playing at the same level, have a better shot.

Very few centres make the HOF.

D3PO

frostie500 wrote: »

...at least with Tiki having refiled his papers we wont have to think of him for another five years minimum!

are you sure ? i thought unless you actually sign for a team your still considered "retired"

Chucky the tree

Surprised Drew Brees and Richard Seymour haven't been mentioned. Brees is on course to break Marinos record this year and if he does he'll definitly make it.

frostie500

D3PO wrote: »

are you sure ? i thought unless you actually sign for a team your still considered "retired"

Tiki is a free agent right now so I would be nearly certain that he cant be a candidate for the hall at any time in the near future.

themont85

D3PO wrote: »

First of all regarding Linemen I cant believe noboidy has mentioned Nick Mangold for me hes in the conversation ahead of many of the linemen mentioned to get in.

I also didnt see Larry Fitzgerald name listed

also there are a lot of people listing a lot of "locks" on this thread. Let us not forget that there is a max of 7 inductees in a year and that has only happened 6 times since 1970 and that includes possible coaches etc aswell.

so yes there are a lot of great players listed here but they aint all gonna make it to Canton especialy if they dont make it in their first 2-3 nominations.

Also you need to remember other players recently retired that are likely to get in or at least be in the conversation

Shaun Alexander, Brett Farve, Kurt Warner, Tiki Barber, Jerome Bettis, Randy Moss, Micheal Strahan, Johnathon Ogden, Warren Sapp, Marvin Harrison, Junior Seau, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace and then coaches like Bill Cowher, Bill Parcels, .

Just put that full list together and then start dividing it out, then think of others that might then have retired and be eligible that might be in the discussion the likes of a potential Rodgers, AP etc etc.

hell there a lot of worthy guys

Its harder to get to Canton than people seem to appreciate here. Lots of great players listed mind you.

The most locks mentioned have been 15 by Chucky which I don't think is an unreasonable figure.

They won't all be retiring the same year (indeed some mentioned were retired like Orlando Pace). If they all retired over a span of fours years there would easily be a spot for every one. Back logs will be cleared and guys coming behind will be, eh, coming behind and not eligible.

How many active Hall of Famers in the modern era has there been per year on average I wonder.

davyjose

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Just from the names mentioned in this thread

Definites:Urlacher,Reed,Lewis,Manning,Jason Taylor, Woodson, Brady, Polamalu, Demarcus Ware, Champ Bailey, Steven hutchinson, Orlando Pace, Tony Gonzalaez, Antonio Gates, Tomlison,

Good chance/Make if they keep producing as they are capable of: Joe Thoams, Jake Long, Adrian Peterson, Ben Rothleisberger(needs better stars or another ring), Ngata, Kevin Mawae (certainly has the body of work just not the big name otherwise he'd be a difinite)

Unlikely: Heinze Ward, Flozell Adams, Jeff Saturday, Adam Vinteri,

Very unlikely: James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Brian Walters, Brian Waters, Chris Samuels,


Hester is a tough one because specialist positions like kickers, punters and returners are always shunned. He should be in though.

There's no real bias when i say this (because most of his truly heroic exploits were with the Pats), but Adam Vinateri is an absolute fùcking lock. 1st ballot!

They should rename it the "Hall of Fame (excluding kickers)" if he doesn't get in. It bugs me a bit that kickers get such meagre respect, because they really play such an important role in the game. But aside from the Four Rings (two of which he sealed), it goes back to the point made about Hester. If you're the undisputed king of your position, you deserve in.

Itssoeasy

Speaking of the hall of fame. The list of the 26 modern era semi-finalists have been announced.

The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:
» Steve Atwater, S -- 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets
» Jerome Bettis, RB -- 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
» Tim Brown, WR/KR -- 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
» Cris Carter, WR -- 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
» Don Coryell, Coach -- 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
» Roger Craig, RB -- 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
» Terrell Davis, RB -- 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
» Dermontti Dawson, C -- 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
» Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner -- 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers
» Chris Doleman, DE/LB -- 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
» Kevin Greene, LB/DE -- 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
» Charles Haley, DE/LB -- 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
» Cortez Kennedy, DT -- 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
» Curtis Martin, RB -- 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets
» Clay Matthews, LB -- 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons
» Karl Mecklenburg, LB -- 1983-1994 Denver Broncos
» Bill Parcells, Coach -- 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys
» Andre Reed, WR -- 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
» Willie Roaf, T -- 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
» Donnie Shell, S -- 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers
» Will Shields, G -- 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs
» Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner -- 1989-2006 National Football League
» Steve Tasker, ST/WR -- 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
» Aeneas Williams, CB/S -- 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
» Ron Wolf, Contributor -- 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991-2001 Green Bay Packers
» George Young, Contributor -- 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

eagle eye

Some of you guys probably never heard of Tim Brown. I'm certain Chucky has and TO too. The guy was awesome and surely has to be a lock and I presume its his first time up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyazfF5vkFM

themont85

eagle eye wrote: »

Some of you guys probably never heard of Tim Brown. I'm certain Chucky has and TO too. The guy was awesome and surely has to be a lock and I presume its his first time up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyazfF5vkFM&feature=related

I mentioned him on the first page. Quality receiver. Might find it tough with all the guys coming through at the minute if he doesn't get in soon.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

Tim Brown. . The guy was awesome and surely has to be a lock and I presume its his first time up?

Not his first time up hes been eligible two previous years (i think). He missed out last year as a finalist. You would think he will get in this year but given he didnt make it last year you can never call it a lock :cool:

From that list Im thinking

Bettis
Brown
Reed
Doleman
Roaf

and although dislisked by many in the NFL probably

Tagliabue aswell

Dodge

Am I right in thinking Shields is the only first time eligible this year? That could clear a bit of back log...

vinny chase

Dodge wrote: »

Am I right in thinking Shields is the only first time eligible this year? That could clear a bit of back log...

I don't know if the 5-year distinction applies to coaches and officials too, as Bill Parcells and Paul Tagliabue are also on the list.

Guys like Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis are only six years away from playing too. Might finally be the year for people like Cris Carter. Don Coryell is surely an absolute must at this point too!

Dodge

Think its different for commissioner types. Forgot about Parcells but he's been on/off retired so wouldn't have been sure anyway

Itssoeasy

In the article for nfl.com i read with this list it suggests that the five year rule came into being something between 2003 and 2006. So if parcells had finished the first time and not gone back to coach the cowboys in 05(?) he would have been eligible in 03 and not have to wait the five years.

So parcells in a first year eligible even though he was on the list before.

frostie500

This is what I love about the NFL Hall of Fame. There are so many worthwhile candidates and only a max of five to get in from the modern class. Looking at the list of players is there anyone there that can be deemed "unworthy?"

Personally I think Parcells is a lock to get in this year. As well as him I'd think that Will Shields has to go in. One of the best O-Lineman ever and he would halp redress the balance by bringing in a lineman. Willie Loaf was a great tackle so I expect one of these to make it.
I'd love to see Coryell inducted, he was a truly innovative offensive mind but I think he will be passed on again. Cris Carter is one of the best WRs Ive seen, his understanding of the game and his sideline catching ability was sublime and hopefully this is his year. Terell Davis....I think he's worthy. I know he only has a body of work from four seasons before injury ended his career but a 2000 yard season, two rings and MVP award speaks for the quality of his career.
Roger Craig played for two dynastys and won five rings with the Niners and 'Boys. I dont think he'll get in but Id love him to be in the final round of discussions.

Vikings

How has nobody mentioned Brett Keisel's beard? Certain lock!

eagle eye

frostie500 wrote: »

This is what I love about the NFL Hall of Fame. There are so many worthwhile candidates and only a max of five to get in from the modern class. Looking at the list of players is there anyone there that can be deemed "unworthy?"

Personally I think Parcells is a lock to get in this year. As well as him I'd think that Will Shields has to go in. One of the best O-Lineman ever and he would halp redress the balance by bringing in a lineman. Willie Loaf was a great tackle so I expect one of these to make it.
I'd love to see Coryell inducted, he was a truly innovative offensive mind but I think he will be passed on again. Cris Carter is one of the best WRs Ive seen, his understanding of the game and his sideline catching ability was sublime and hopefully this is his year. Terell Davis....I think he's worthy. I know he only has a body of work from four seasons before injury ended his career but a 2000 yard season, two rings and MVP award speaks for the quality of his career.
Roger Craig played for two dynastys and won five rings with the Niners and 'Boys. I dont think he'll get in but Id love him to be in the final round of discussions.

I'm actually shocked now. I just skimmed over the list and spotted Brown who for me should be already in but I never spotted Roger Craig and again I'm shocked. I don't know how he hasn't been inducted already.

Parcells is a lock for sure. Brown for me should be next to him. After that there are so many great candidates but I'd probably go with Craig, Shields and Atwater buts its very hard to leave out the likes of Doleman, Greene, Carter, Mecklenberg and then you've got Tagliabue who is likely as well as the legendary 49ers owner de Bartolo. I don't think Martin or Davis will make it this year but in time I can see both getting in.

D3PO

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So parcells in a first year eligible even though he was on the list before.

Parcells has been on the ballot previously and didnt get in.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

Parcells is a lock for sure. .

most commentators would disagree and say he will be overlooked and infact many think he will never get into the HOF

eagle eye

D3PO wrote: »

most commentators would disagree and say he will be overlooked and infact many think he will never get into the HOF

Find that hard to believe, he has two superbowl rings and to be fair turned around the ailing New England Patriots franchise and has to be given a lot of credit for the squad that he put together there.

Did I mention I despise the man despite giving him this much credit?