Which option is best to fix mould and moisture problems?

goodlad

Hey everyone,

I have some on-going problems with moisture and condensation and mould in my house.
I currently have a few suggestions on how to tackle the problem. I’m just wondering what you guys think is the best.
Currently the issue is a lot of mould growing on the ceilings upstairs in the house.
We also get a crazy amount of condensation on all the upstairs windows.
The house upstairs also doesn’t hold heat at all.
In the attic I rolled back the fibreglass, there is then plastic sheeting which is providing a vapour barrier. There is a LOT of moisture under these plastic sheets. Which makes me think the vapour barrier is not working.

The ventilation in the house is also awful. Inspecting the vents showed they are far too small. Some vents are blocked and some are actually just fake… As in there is no vent on the outside of the house.
I will be making the vents bigger. About 6 inches by 6 inches, putting in a plastic box linking the inside vent to the outside one.
While we had the vent covers off I put my arm into the walls and they feel very damp and I couldn’t feel any insulation in there at all.

Currently the suggestions for tackling the problems are:
1 - Take down the ceilings upstairs and re-do the vapour barrier properly.
2 - Take a blade and cut the plastic sheeting out of the attic and then spray down a paint vapour barrier
3 - Make the vents a proper size and put in vents where there are no vents.
4 - Put in a mechanical ventilation system

Im also thinking of getting a thermal survey done so I can see if the walls are insulated properly.

So what do you guys think is the best way to tackle this problem?
Im trying to find the solution that’s cheapest and that insurance is most likely going to cover.

BryanF

goodlad wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I have some on-going problems with moisture and condensation and mould in my house.
I currently have a few suggestions on how to tackle the problem. I’m just wondering what you guys think is the best.
Currently the issue is a lot of mould growing on the ceilings upstairs in the house.
We also get a crazy amount of condensation on all the upstairs windows.
The house upstairs also doesn’t hold heat at all.
In the attic I rolled back the fibreglass, there is then plastic sheeting which is providing a vapour barrier. There is a LOT of moisture under these plastic sheets. Which makes me think the vapour barrier is not working.

plastic sheets do not constitute a vapour barrier, however, the amount of moisture suggests in adequate ventilation of the house

The ventilation in the house is also awful. Inspecting the vents showed they are far too small. Some vents are blocked and some are actually just fake… As in there is no vent on the outside of the house.
I will be making the vents bigger. About 6 inches by 6 inches, putting in a plastic box linking the inside vent to the outside one.
While we had the vent covers off I put my arm into the walls and they feel very damp and I couldn’t feel any insulation in there at all.

Currently the suggestions for tackling the problems are:
1 - Take down the ceilings upstairs and re-do the vapour barrier properly.
2 - Take a blade and cut the plastic sheeting out of the attic and then spray down a paint vapour barrier
3 - Make the vents a proper size and put in vents where there are no vents.
4 - Put in a mechanical ventilation system

Im also thinking of getting a thermal survey done so I can see if the walls are insulated properly.

So what do you guys think is the best way to tackle this problem?
Im trying to find the solution that’s cheapest and that insurance is most likely going to cover.

you seem to half an idea of what's going on:) there is no one solution, get and arch/arch tech/eng/ to survey and assess

goodlad

Yeah, the ventilation is absolutely causing a lot of the problems.
It have actually had 4 engineers out looking at the place. Each with their own speciality area but all with experience with this type of problem.

They all agree that the ventilation needs to be fixed.
Some said that fixing the size of some vents to 6 inches and then adding the the plastic boxes and also adding in more vents to the house would be enough.
Where as another engineer said that a mechanical system would be needed.

All agree that the plastic sheeting needs to be removed and fixed.
But the suggestions about how to fix it are mixed.
Some say knock the ceilings out and do it and others say just cut it up and spray down the paint barrier.

Im just having a hard time deciding on which suggestion to actually go with.
I need to pick an option that will absolutely fix my issues and get it sorted.

Too many engineers giving too many different opinions is making the choices difficult.

henryporter

Worthwhile having a look at this: <removed link to company>

BryanF

goodlad wrote: »

Yeah, the ventilation is absolutely causing a lot of the problems.
It have actually had 4 engineers out looking at the place. Each with their own speciality area but all with experience with this type of problem.

That's a pickle because useless you give us all the info that they could readily see on site then how are you going to get any better advice here?

They all agree that the ventilation needs to be fixed.

Some said that fixing the size of some vents to 6 inches and then adding the the plastic boxes and also adding in more vents to the house would be enough.
Where as another engineer said that a mechanical system would be needed.

how old?
what are the walls?
what is the area?
I have recommended Mechanical ventilation systems in the past but the system and install is at least a 1g, so get back in your preferred (1 of 4 engineers) and have it out with him first;)

All agree that the plastic sheeting needs to be removed and fixed.
But the suggestions about how to fix it are mixed.
Some say knock the ceilings out and do it and others say just cut it up and spray down the paint barrier.

forget spray paint! what kind of engineer suggested that??

Im just having a hard time deciding on which suggestion to actually go with.
I need to pick an option that will absolutely fix my issues and get it sorted.

Too many engineers giving too many different opinions is making the choices difficult.

too many cooks:D I sympathise with you. and you clearly still have some issues to address/solve..

creedp

It have actually had 4 engineers out looking at the place. Each with their own speciality area but all with experience with this type of problem.

Too many engineers giving too many different opinions is making the choices difficult.

This is the real problem for us mere mortals. The view is always expressed that you hire a professional and they will tell you what to do. Job done. However, as this e.g. shows if you hire 4 yes they will tell you what to do alright but the directions will differ. How is the mere mortal to decide what's best?

BryanF

henryporter wrote: »

Worthwhile having a look at this

Hi henry, may i ask why your preference for Positive input ventilation over mechanical extract? is there an efficiency to be gained by PIV over MEV. would wall mounted RH sensor MEV's not be the simplest retro-fit option?

BryanF

creedp wrote: »

This is the real problem for us mere mortals. The view is always expressed that you hire a professional and they will tell you what to do. Job done. However, as this e.g. shows if you hire 4 yes they will tell you what to do alright but the directions will differ. How is the mere mortal to decide what's best?

Now i do apologies in advance for this, but Goodlad hasn't said whether he paid for this advice or whether he went to four guys until he got what he considered to be the cheap option he was looking for:P.

creedp

BryanF wrote: »

Now i do apologies in advance for this, but Goodlad hasn't said whether he paid for this advice or whether he went to four guys until he got what he considered to be the cheap option he was looking for:P.

Good point but I wouldn't have thought this is an isolated example of the problem. How about the argument among several guys about chimney design with one juy swearing that putting a bend in a chimney flue results in the best draw while another laughs and wonders how this particular wives tale is still doing the rounds. Now as a mere mortal taking advice from an 'experienced' builder which one one you believe?

Maybe there are mere mortals and mere ejits but this is a very simple issue and views differ. Its not always down to the cheapest option but how do you assess which experts opinion/option among many is best.

goodlad

I have only paid for one of the engineers to come out.
To cut it short. 2 engineers are friends of the family and kept canceling coming out.
I got impatient and paid an engineer to come out. His area was insulation.
He recommended removing the ceilings, putting in a proper vapor barrier then getting the ceilings fixed.
He then contacted a ventilation and heat recovery engineer and asked him to check the place out (no charge).
He recommended the mechanical ventilation system.

Then the two family friends showed up.
They recommended getting a thermal survey of the house done to see if the walls are properly insulated. And they both agreed that the plastic sheeting was an attempt at a vapor barrier by the builders but it basically sucks and needs to be replaced.

Supposedly there are some paints that can act as a vapor barrier as they have a low permability rating? (not sure if i spelled that right).

The mechanical ventilation system is out of the question as i havent the money for something like that. So for the ventilation issue im going to just do the work on the vent sizes and add in vents where there are none. Im hoping that will solve the ventilation issue.

The biggest issue seems to be with this vapor barrier that should be in the ceilings upstairs. How to actually fix/replace/add a vapor barrier seems to be the cause of all the headache.

I really dont want to remove ceilings in my house. But is there another way to put in a vapor barrier? Obviously the plastic sheeting currently there is causing problems anyways as as heat rises up from the house, through the plaster its contacting the plastic sheers and just turning into moisture and then soaking the plaster underneath and then the mould is growing.

Quick edit. The reason im posting here for even more opinions is im under pressure to fix this problem the fastest way, but also the right way. And hopefully a way insurance will sort.
Currently my gf and the 2 kids are not staying here because the mould is too bad and we dont feel right having our very young kids in the house at the moment.

MicktheMan

creedp wrote: »

This is the real problem for us mere mortals. The view is always expressed that you hire a professional and they will tell you what to do. Job done. However, as this e.g. shows if you hire 4 yes they will tell you what to do alright but the directions will differ. How is the mere mortal to decide what's best?

creedp wrote: »

Maybe there are mere mortals and mere ejits but this is a very simple issue and views differ. Its not always down to the cheapest option but how do you assess which experts opinion/option among many is best.

It's called building physics expertise. Moisture generation and exhaustion is where its at. As we insulate to higher standards etc, moisture within the building fabric becomes critical especially where due care and attention was not applied to different construction details and so called "improvements".
It is no longer good enough to assess a house just for insulation, or ventilation or window quality etc etc. Each house needs to be viewed as a whole with all the bits taken together (including owner behaviour) and proposals made to tackle all of the issues which are interacting to give such problems as mould.
Recently, this has come to the fore with our very mild winter so far in that a lot of people who here to fore have not really had a mould problem but suddenly has gotten a lot worse.

The solution will depend on the cause(s) uncovered by a good experienced surveyor/building physicist and gathered data and on the budget / preferences of the home owner.

There is expertise out there, it's a case of finding it.:)

creedp

The biggest issue seems to be with this vapor barrier that should be in the ceilings upstairs. How to actually fix/replace/add a vapor barrier seems to be the cause of all the headache. [/QUOTE]

That's a tough situation to find yourself in and it obviously needs sorting quickly. It is clear that I'm no expert and it seems even the experts differ in relation to the solution. I would just wonder whether it is a priority to rip down ceilings and replace vapour barrier when your dampness/mold issue is on the ceiling side of the barrier. My understanding is the VB stop moisture getting in to attic and causing condensation and dampness in the attic but will installing a VB have a significant impact on dampness in your actual living area? If you short on funds the important issue in the short term is to reduce the amount of moisture in your house by ventilating it out. So installing vents in all rooms and mechanical vents in bathrooms and kitchens. You should also ensure the house is heated throughout to encourage the warmer internal air to absorb moisture which can then be ventilated outside and replaced with colder dryer air. Also ensure your attic is insulated and if there is no insulation in your cavity walls consider pumping them. You may be able to get a grant to defray some of these costs but I'm not familiar with the conditions to qualify for these grants.

Best of luck with sorting the problem.

BryanF

goodlad wrote: »

I got impatient and paid an engineer to come out. His area was insulation.
He recommended removing the ceilings, putting in a proper vapor barrier then getting the ceilings fixed.

yes, good idea but deal with ventilation first

He then contacted a ventilation and heat recovery engineer and asked him to check the place out (no charge).
He recommended the mechanical ventilation system.

Yes certainly the solution, but I wonder why he suggested that over enlarging the wall vents?
btw is there WC and kitchen extracts etc?

Then the two family friends showed up.
They recommended getting a thermal survey of the house done to see if the walls are properly insulated.

yes, insulation/ thermal bridging mat be a factor but deal with the ventilation issue first (*)

And they both agreed that the plastic sheeting was an attempt at a vapor barrier by the builders but it basically sucks and needs to be replaced.

yes, but when that's installed where does does the humid air that turns to moisture go then? *

Supposedly there are some paints that can act as a vapor barrier as they have a low permability rating? (not sure if i spelled that right).

I don't like the sound of that in a moist attic space with structural timber about..

The mechanical ventilation system is out of the question as i havent the money for something like that.

have you priced just having wall mounted extract vents that come on when RH is high?

So for the ventilation issue im going to just do the work on the vent sizes and add in vents where there are none. Im hoping that will solve the ventilation issue.

I hope so too *

The biggest issue seems to be with this vapor barrier that should be in the ceilings upstairs. How to actually fix/replace/add a vapor barrier seems to be the cause of all the headache.

I'm not sure its the cause, surely the moisture is the cause? *

I really dont want to remove ceilings in my house. But is there another way to put in a vapor barrier?

I've wondered about this myself, but have yet to come up with an infallible alternative.

Obviously the plastic sheeting currently there is causing problems anyways as as heat rises up from the house, through the plaster its contacting the plastic sheers and just turning into moisture and then soaking the plaster underneath and then the mould is growing.

yes, but *

Quick edit. The reason im posting here for even more opinions is im under pressure to fix this problem the fastest way, but also the right way. And hopefully a way insurance will sort.
Currently my gf and the 2 kids are not staying here because the mould is too bad and we dont feel right having our very young kids in the house at the moment.

re insurance - let us know how that one goes..
you keep saying you want to fix this the 'right way' well why not start with cleaning the mould, drying out the space, and widen the vents (and open the window more often) and keep background heating on - all of these can be done for relatively cheap - trail and error is the poor man's option