The Sign of Peace at Mass

The Quadratic Equation

A question for fellow Mass goers . . . .

Rightly or wrongly I thought (and was hoping) the much used and abused "Sign of Peace" was to be done away with as part of the recently revised and more accurate missal translation.

Each Sunday I can't help notice people (often with colds and flues) cough, splutter, sneeze, pick their nose and wipe all sorts into their hands etc., and then insist I shake their hands before I go up to receive communion.

It also seems to turn into a competition to see who can shake the most hands the hardest and give the broadest fake smile, and if you don't play along with this charade and furiously compete to shake hands with as many people as possible, and shake at least 3-4 peoples hands, you are the worlds worst.

I find the whole thing a very unnecessary and uncalled for distraction in the middle of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Our Priest seems to be really excited about it, seemingly far more so than about the liturgy of the Eucharist. He does a big build up to it, gives a big grin and does bouncing motions with his own hands to encourage us to go on this handshake fest.

Just wondered do any other mass goers feel the same ?

lmaopml

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

A question for fellow Mass goers . . . .

Rightly or wrongly I thought (and was hoping) the much used and abused "Sign of Peace" was to be done away with as part of the recently revised and more accurate missal translation.

Each Sunday I can't help notice people (often with colds and flues) cough, splutter, sneeze, pick their nose and wipe all sorts into their hands etc., and then insist I shake their hands before I go up to receive communion.

It also seems to turn into a competition to see who can shake the most hands the hardest and give the broadest fake smile, and if you don't play along with this charade and furiously compete to shake hands with as many people as possible, and shake at least 3-4 peoples hands, you are the worlds worst.

I find the whole thing a very unnecessary and uncalled for distraction in the middle of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Our Priest seems to be really excited about it, seemingly far more so than about the liturgy of the Eucharist. He does a big build up to it, gives a big grin and does bouncing motions with his own hands to encourage us to go on this handshake fest.

Just wondered do any other mass goers feel the same ?

No, it's the complete opposit in my Parish. People are shy of turning around in their seat to shake your hand and only shake the persons hand either side rather swiftly - If you smile, sometimes if they're your own age they go a bit pink out of embarrassment too...

Ah Quadratic, there's nothing wrong with a good shaking hands, even if they have a cold or whatever, there's always soap and water when you get home. I think it's nice. Also, it helps to build that sense of a community, which has been devasted in communities that used to meet up regularly at mass...

The Quadratic Equation

lmaopml wrote: »

No, it's the complete opposit in my Parish. People are shy of turning around in their seat to shake your hand and only shake the persons hand either side rather swiftly - If you smile, sometimes if they're your own age they go a bit pink out of embarrassment too...

Ah Quadratic, there's nothing wrong with a good shaking hands, even if they have a cold or whatever, there's always soap and water when you get home. I think it's nice. Also, it helps to build that sense of a community, which has been devasted in communities that used to meet up regularly at mass...

A lot of people take commuinion in the hand, so its a bit late washing your hands when you get home. Small point, but I for one don't like having to take time off work for the flu each winter.

Of course I appreciate the sentiment, but in practice it does not really work. I Much prefer to make a genuine effort at saying hello / talking to people outside the Chapel afterwards, than the empty show of a ritual handshake.

I read that many parishes in America, UK etc. have had to cut it out as people starting walking around to shake hands, even hugging kissing and backslapping, and it was taking about 5 mins to restore order.

An older Priest sometimes says mass in our Parish and he skips the optional sign of peace nonsense. Makes for a much smoother more fitting Mass. Just my opinion of course.

antiskeptic

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

A question for fellow Mass goers .

Just wondered do any other mass goers feel the same ?

I'm a mass goer by way of funerals and the like and find it cringe inducing. The false holy smiles (like we're all supposed to be buddies before God) .. from me included.

What a crock..

If I wasn't a believer, it's this kind of thing that would turn me to atheism

Manach

I take it to be a fairly harmless custom. Turn left, right, and shake in each direction. It is a gesture of the community that we belong on. However, do not get me started on the quality of singing

Onesimus

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm a mass goer by way of funerals and the like and find it cringe inducing. The false holy smiles (like we're all supposed to be buddies before God) .. from me included.

What a crock..

If I wasn't a believer, it's this kind of thing that would turn me to atheism

WOW!

gbee

I'm an atheist but have to work during mass and other ceremonies ~ I just refuse with a very few exceptions.

This goes back to my wedding photography days and one picture request was the actual handshake, I was on the balcony, long lens and the bride and groom would turn to ceremoniously make the gesture and I was to catch it.

SUDDENLY ~ a stupid choir conductor PUSHED ME and offered her hand in friendship ~ YOU **** idiot I MISSED my shot.

I did get a close enough shot so the couple were satisfied but I've threatened to actually hit people ~ as mentioned, I'm only ever in church for work, so I'm more sensitive ~

Onesimus

It is something directed to us by the Apostles in the Scriptures. it is known as the Kiss of Peace, and in the latin rite eventually it went from Kiss to handshake.

In the Eastern Rite we still do the Holy Kiss, although not done always among the laity universally it is most common amongst priests and deacons mid way through the Liturgy. So how would you like a big kiss OP? hmmm. It is not a canonical requirement and can be excluded at the priests discretion but...I have to say...I'd expect a ridicolous comment like that from Antiskeptic but had no idea it would be thanked by a Catholic.

Anyhow, It is biblical, directed by the apostles to do, and our Liturgy dates back to 4th century and 1st century and the Kiss ( closer than handshake ) of Peace has never changed.

Plus greeting with a kiss in France is common and I do not see anyone giving out. But to respond to antiskeptic, yes we are a community of believers who love one another, this sign of peace brings us closer as not just a community, but in making this sign of peace demonstrates that we are more than just a community and a family in Christ.

I'm totally shocked at Q and A and their response to this sign of peace.

tommy2bad

I find the whole thing a very unnecessary and uncalled for distraction in the middle of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Love one another as I have... and all that?

Each Sunday I can't help notice people (often with colds and flues) cough, splutter, sneeze, pick their nose and wipe all sorts into their hands etc., and then insist I shake their hands before I go up to receive communion.

Bottle of this in your pocket and a quick squirt, your good to go!
http://www.boots.com/en/Carex-Moisture-Plus-Hand-Gel-50ml_870362/

gbee

Onesimus wrote: »

Plus greeting with a kiss in France is common

They don't touch [mostly] and a common greeting in Ireland is to have an empty whiskey bottle thrown at one.

And if you are familiar with the traditional Irish shillelagh greeting, held over the head so it can instantly become a weapon to crush your skull as easily as shaken in the air in a welcoming salute.

tommy2bad

gbee wrote: »

They don't touch [mostly] and a common greeting in Ireland is to have an empty whiskey bottle thrown at one.

And if you are familiar with the traditional Irish shillelagh greeting, held over the head so it can instantly become a weapon to crush your skull as easily as shaken in the air in a welcoming salute.

Can't see that taking off in a liturgical context to be honest, suppose it depends on what denomination you are.

gbee

Onesimus wrote: »

Plus greeting with a kiss in France is common

AND, yer would not be brignin French Kissing to church, surely not,

prinz

Yeah. It bugs me. I don't mind sharing the sign of peace with family and friends or with genuine folk around, but there's often a feeling of being obligated to shake hands with randomers who look about as interested to shake hands as they would be to shake a poisonous snake and I too have noticed the 'holier than thou' brigade for whom the sign of the peace turns into a 'who can shake the most hands' competition. Both are off putting.

Shaking hands with your neighbours on the pew is one thing, leaning over two pews to say howaya to someone you kind of know is the ridiculous.

kelly1

Nothing wrong with shaking hands with the people beside you but I think it should be kept brief and don't bother with the people in front/behind.

lmaopml

There is a book by Dr. Scott Hahn, it's called 'The Lambs Supper' and it is beautifully written - focus on Liturgy and Scripture and how the Old Covenant translates the New Covenant - special focus on the mass, and the divine Liturgy at mass that was forever transformed by Jesus Sacrifice on the Cross. Just how 'old' and 'new' and wonderfully continuous God is and how important the sacrament is that Jesus gave us...

It's a wonderful read, and really explains the mass, actually it brought it more alive for me...gave every sentence more depth more deep meaning etc.

Just thought I'd slip in a book recommendation on the thread for the heck of it. Hope you don't mind Quadratic.

Tbh, you wouldn't be the first to feel awkward shaking a strangers hand, I think it's a good practice though....I used to get the flu and colds all the time before I learned how to drive and used the public transport - I used to feel like the snots and sneezes magnet because they always sat behind me...lol....ahh fun times, holding my breath waiting for the germs to dissipate....:)

lmaopml

kelly1 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with shaking hands with the people beside you but I think it should be kept brief and don't bother with the people in front/behind.

I agree. Unless you know there is only one person in the pew behind, then it's nice to include them.....I've often felt like Billy no friends if I was in a pew on my own...

Keaton

The sign of peace in the New Mass is an anachronism. Just like Communion in the hand. Both where brought back, but in a form that was not actually used in the early Church. Basically, Communion in the hand was received in the palm of the hand, and this palm was brought directly to the mouth, with no finger contact. Women had to use a little white cloth on their hand, and the people's hands were purified afterwards carefully. The modern practise is actually a Protestant innovation used to destroy belief in the Real Presence, introduced by the Reformers.

As regards the sign of peace, it was only exchanged between those who were in the state of grace, whilst other folks, including catechumens, where ushered out of the church after the 'Mass of Catechumens', so they didn't get to receive the sign of peace.

So really, this modern Americanism of shaking hands and 'making peace' with folks you don't even know, is a nonsense and it ought to be dispensed with.

This is hilarious:

A few years ago I sometimes went to Mass with a very Right-wing Australian who hated the sign of peace. Actually, he pretty much hated Mass, judging by his repertoire of liturgical yawns and clock-watching. The only moment his attention was fully engaged was when the priest said the dread words and he would sink to his knees in the "deep prayer" gambit. His explanation for refusing to shaking hands didn't suggest a particularly deep well of Christian charity. "I always get stuck next to a **** or a ******," he would tell me. (I'll leave his actual words to your imagination: think of minorities disliked by Right-wing Australians – though that doesn't narrow it down very much.)

Keylem

Michael Voris mentions the sign of peace among other things in his latest video!

tommy2bad

shaking hands and 'making peace' with folks you don't even know, is a nonsense and it ought to be dispensed with.

Yeah, Jesus was dead set against making peace with people, down with this sort of thing!

CMpunked

I refuse to shake anyones hand when i attend a ceremony in a chapel.
I would rather actually making a point to share peace with others around me instead of giving them a false smile and a nod before turning away and not giving it another thought.
And i wouldnt let anyone have to go through the motions with me, either.

homer911

Our minister (Presbyterian) does this from time to time. Just like many of my fellow Catholics here I don't like it - its so false

I generally know the people around me (in church) well and we will chat after the service anyway. If there is somebody I dont know beside me I'll say 'hello' anyway. I dont need insincere handshaking with people I know really well where we wouldnt bother shaking hands normally. With a stranger shaking hands is normally accompanied with 'Hello, my name is ... Pleased to meet you' .. and this is the start of a conversation, rather than just shake hands, grunt, and then turn to the next person..

Whoever thought this up needs to stand in a pew and do it themselves!

Fr.Harry Bell

Maybe we are thinking too much about it, just shake hands and wish the person peace.

I can see peoples point of view, but let's not blow the thing out of proportion.

If I was put in a spot I would dispense with it, in fairness.

Mint Sauce

I dont go to Mass to often, but when I do, I only shake hands with those who I have gone to Mass with, or those who either side of me.

It does seem to be a competition at times or people trying to be seen to shake as many as possible, even reaching over pews to do so.

Keaton

Some people don't like shaking hands with strangers. It is an unwanted imposition.

PatricaMcKay2

Keylem wrote: »

Michael Voris mentions the sign of peace among other things in his latest video!

Im trying to get over the nasty tendency in my soul to laugh at other people's stupidity but Michael Voris and Willie Frazer always give make laugh so much.

Kneeling on Sunday would have seemed total blasemphy for nearly all Christians for the first thousand years of Christianity, the sign of peace exists to this day in Syriac and Coptic liturgies which have been less distorted than the Latin or Byzantine ones which have been subject to all sorts of secular influences through their history; its ancient and totally in line with the Spirit of the Gospels, unlike kneeling on Sunday which Mr Voris would like to bring back.

The objections to the sign of peace are typical uptight Irish and American uncomfortableness with intimacy.

PatricaMcKay2

Keaton wrote: »

Some people don't like shaking hands with strangers. It is an unwanted imposition.

They should not be in Church on Sunday if they are going to have a dislike of shaking hands with the family of God; if they are going to consider the family of God strangers than they are strangers to God and in a state of damnation. That isnt rocket science.

Keaton

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

They should not be in Church on Sunday if they are going to have a dislike of shaking hands with the family of God; if they are going to consider the family of God strangers than they are strangers to God and in a state of damnation. That isnt rocket science.

How much genuine 'community' is there between those who go to Mass?

Many of the people go to Mass out of obligation. There is often little in the way of genuine 'community' or what I would prefer to call Christian fraternity. This community cannot come artificially; it can only come through a genuine, sincere conversion to Jesus and a living out of that communion.

In my own opinion, many of the people who still go to Mass do not believe in the entire Catholic faith. How much communion can there be between light and darkness? What communion can there be between those who believe in the Real Presence, and those who do not? Between those who revel in sinful lifestyles and those who long for holiness? Can a lack of real spiritual communion with the Body of Christ be patched over with a grunt and a handshake?

Mass is not the place for 'building community'. Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. If people want to 'build community', let them meet after Mass for Bible study, catechism class, support groups, and barbecues.

tommy2bad

If people want to 'build community', let them meet after Mass for Bible study, catechism class, support groups, and barbecues.

Sounds a bit protestant to me!

PatricaMcKay2

Keaton wrote: »

How much genuine 'community' is there between those who go to Mass?

Mass is not the place for 'building community'. Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. If people want to 'build community', let them meet after Mass for Bible study, catechism class, support groups, and barbecues.

If you want to put it that way, you could also say its about people Communing on the Eucharist which is supposed to be creating a very intimate physical and Spiritual bond between people- isnt the Sacrament of the Altar the community builder par excellence? St Paul certainly suggests so. To say that Sunday Liturgy is not about community building is a bizzare comment, what else is it about?

Christ died for the Church, not for individuals- and salvation comes through the Church, through the bond of love, prayer and sacrifice that unites concrete individuals together in God; without that actual concrete experiance of community there is no salvation. If there is no genuine sense of community between those who you worship with than there is something seriously wrong. It is concrete union with other concrete individuals that saves and not abstract mental assent to an idea of the Church.

If someone cannot see Christ in a fellow believer to the point of not wanting to even shake their hand, how are they in a state to actual take Communion?

Keaton

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

If you want to put it that way, you could also say its about people Communing on the Eucharist which is supposed to be creating a very intimate physical and Spiritual bond between people- isnt the Sacrament of the Altar the community builder par excellence? St Paul certainly suggests so. To say that Sunday Liturgy is not about community building is a bizzare comment, what else is it about?

Christ died for the Church, not for individuals- and salvation comes through the Church, through the bond of love, prayer and sacrifice that unites concrete individuals together in God; without that actual concrete experiance of community there is no salvation. If there is no genuine sense of community between those who you worship with than there is something seriously wrong. It is concrete union with other concrete individuals that saves and not abstract mental assent to an idea of the Church.

If someone cannot see Christ in a fellow believer to the point of not wanting to even shake their hand, how are they in a state to actual take Communion?

The communion that Christians share in Christ is much deeper and more mystical than the cheap, common, banal gesture of the street, the handshake.

Von Hildebrand has some thoughts abut community here: http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/spirituality/the-case-for-the-latin-mass.html

CMpunked

tommy2bad wrote: »

Sounds a bit protestant to me!

Also sounds like a great way to actually build a community, all "other denomination negativity" comments aside..

tommy2bad

If someone cannot see Christ in a fellow believer to the point of not wanting to even shake their hand, how are they in a state to actual take Communion?

The communion that Christians share in Christ is much deeper and more mystical than the cheap, common, banal gesture of the street, the handshake.

Theirs the problem, If all Christianity is is a mystical self appreciation ritual then you might as well join the angel readers and Feng shuae and whatever new age spiritualism club you want.

all "other denomination negativity" comments aside..

Check your irony meter, it seems faulty.

CMpunked

tommy2bad wrote: »

Check your irony meter, it seems faulty.

cad é?

lmaopml

Keaton wrote: »

How much genuine 'community' is there between those who go to Mass?

Many of the people go to Mass out of obligation. There is often little in the way of genuine 'community' or what I would prefer to call Christian fraternity. This community cannot come artificially; it can only come through a genuine, sincere conversion to Jesus and a living out of that communion.

In my own opinion, many of the people who still go to Mass do not believe in the entire Catholic faith. How much communion can there be between light and darkness? What communion can there be between those who believe in the Real Presence, and those who do not? Between those who revel in sinful lifestyles and those who long for holiness? Can a lack of real spiritual communion with the Body of Christ be patched over with a grunt and a handshake?

Mass is not the place for 'building community'. Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. If people want to 'build community', let them meet after Mass for Bible study, catechism class, support groups, and barbecues.

Keaton, I think you are very wrong here. Fair enough if the 'Sign of Peace' makes people feel uncomfortable, then nobody is going to grab you if you kneel or keep your hands clasped and your eyes ahead.

....but I agree with the guy who said we're making a bit 'too much' of it here. I think 'Communion' is about our 'Communion' with God through the Sacrament of the Eucharist, however it is also about the 'Communion of the Saints' and eachother ( God's Community ) - nowhere else are we more closely united in the body and blood of Christ to eachother as sons and daughters of God.

You know, Mother Theresa lived a 'Holy' life - she touched people with every single illness with her bare hands and didn't think twice...

It's only a handshake. A sign of peace between brothers and sisters - Fair enough if somebody is jumping over pews ( and maybe this happens in the USA) but in my experience Irish people are far more reserved and skittish about invading anybodies space and the handshake is literally a touch of hands - Just sometimes though, you get to shake the hand of a very good person, and I think that small prayer of peace among the People of God for and with eachother is rather beautiful in it's own way...

...and Keaton, you don't know what 'many of the people who go to mass believe'....gosh, that's so presumptuous - Join a monastery where there is lots of silence, no children, and the type of prayer that you seem to want in solitude.

Mass is a gift from God to ALL his people, it doesn't have to be dour and cold in order to honour and revere God - It can and should be a celebration ( with dignity of course ) too....

Keaton

lmaopml wrote: »

Keaton, I think you are very wrong here. Fair enough if the 'Sign of Peace' makes people feel uncomfortable, then nobody is going to grab you if you kneel or keep your hands clasped and your eyes ahead.

...and Keaton, you don't know what 'many of the people who go to mass believe'....gosh, that's so presumptuous - Join a monastery where there is lots of silence, no children, and the type of prayer that you seem to want in solitude.

Mass is a gift from God to ALL his people, it doesn't have to be dour and cold in order to honour and revere God - It can and should be a celebration ( with dignity of course ) too....

Well people do grab and poke you. Sometimes, I might reach for a tissue and blow my nose at the right moment, but that is no good, since people will wait to shake hands afterwards. I've also been prodded from behind by folks looking to shake my hand, and in a near empty church, a lady insisted on getting up and walking back about 8 rows just to shake my hand, and all this in Ireland. There's a social pressure to conform, and if you don't, you feel like a freak and people look at you funny.

As regards judging faith, I listen to the racket after Mass as people ignore the Lord in the tabernacle and yack their heads off, hence I say they love to talk more than they love to adore Jesus in the tabernacle. I even hear people chatting and laughing immediately after Holy Communion! By their fruits and all that... However, the priests bear responsibility since they never taught the people, so...

Mass is the re-presentation of the same sacrifice as Calvary. It is not a celebration as the modern world understands it and that misuse of the word celebration and the modern concept behind it has done much harm.

lmaopml

I suppose you are entitled to your feelings Keaton, ( I keep getting yourself and Keylem mixed up..) ....and honestly I don't know where you are going to Mass, but maybe change time to later on a Sunday, or a different Parish if it upsets you so...

You know what - the woman who walked back in the near empty Church to shake your hand may have embarrassed you slightly, but she's my kind of hero ...I think she meant well...Maybe she thought, 'Well it's just you and me sir tonight'....and was glad of the company in very many near empty Churches.

Doc Farrell

What a great lady, lol, maybe she reads souls!

Masses come in all shapes and forms, I was at a couple in Vilnius at the start of the summer that were very touching. Couldn't understand a word! Personally the quieter the better but I'm an old fart!

PatricaMcKay2

tommy2bad wrote: »

Theirs the problem, If all Christianity is is a mystical self appreciation ritual then you might as well join the angel readers and Feng shuae and whatever new age spiritualism club you want.
.

Exactly, if other people are not around to annoy you its easy to slip into delusions about your spiritual state, which is why God brings very different people together in His Church. The original sign of peace was a kiss and hug- Im sure that would annoy Michael Voris a lot more.