Kickham Barracks

Fionn

so the powers that be have finally cast their vote - on the fate of Kickham Barracks.

Hope they remember it the next time the word VOTE is mentioned around these parts!!

and that goes for any member of the ruling puppets not just the cabinet.

wonder will Tom Hayes follow the example of Minister of State Willie Penrose??????

anyway the protest should go on

Facebook link here

tippspur

Scandalous decision,and not a word from the local politicians.

Vizzy

Saw a few of them on the news(in the background) and Pat English spoke but he didn't come across very well.

daithi55

stupid so it is
wait till the hard winter comes and theres no soliders local for the snow floods etc
they will either be in kilkenny or limerick

Fionn

redone this photograph that appeared on the Facebook page against the closure of the barracks just before Christmas

thank you so much! Mr. Shatter and your gutless colleagues

Santa's last Christmas in Kickham Barracks :mad:

Duggys Housemate

Is this not happening today?

callaway92

it already happened, the march

Fionn

last time the flag will be lowered in Kickham Barracks, Clonmel!!

tippspur

An awful shame,so sad to see it closed down.someone told me that Tom Hayes was at the Army march.If that's true he has some neck.

JabbaTheHut

That's sad.So so sad. What's going to happen to it now

kildarecommuter

It will be wrecked and robbed by various louts scumbags etc as will Columb Barracks Mullingar, just look what happened to McGee Barracks in Kildare.

In the long run, this will cost Clonmel more rather than save them if you take the local economy into consideration etc. The money that was spent on KB over the years you wouldnt mind. My dad is an ex soldier so i would have seen around the place the odd occasion. Daft decision and a pure waste. its a fine set up in there. govt should really put their thinking hats on and come up with something good to replace it that will create jobs and help the local economy

JabbaTheHut

It has been suggested to me that since the North Tipp/South Tipp riding councils are to be amalgamated, that the premises could be used as a new base for the new setup. Don't know what the logistics on this would be, but it would make use of it.

martin09

no one lost their job.
perhaps the money saved will help the less fortunate
it is an outdated relic of a time when the british required military posts all over ireland
i served there and im well aware that it was more like the personal fiefdom of a limited number of officers, with limited ability - at a huge cost to the state.
sad it may be for the soldiers who are serving there but its hardly a tragedy

DT100

martin09 wrote: »

no one lost their job.
perhaps the money saved will help the less fortunate
it is an outdated relic of a time when the british required military posts all over ireland
i served there and im well aware that it was more like the personal fiefdom of a limited number of officers, with limited ability - at a huge cost to the state.
sad it may be for the soldiers who are serving there but its hardly a tragedy

How long were you there? Are you still in the Army?

martin09

martin09 wrote: »

no one lost their job.
perhaps the money saved will help the less fortunate
it is an outdated relic of a time when the british required military posts all over ireland
i served there and im well aware that it was more like the personal fiefdom of a limited number of officers, with limited ability - at a huge cost to the state.
sad it may be for the soldiers who are serving there but its hardly a tragedy

but will it actually save money?

martin09

I was there for many years and remember a time when the commanding officer of the day (who did hold a relatively minor rank) would have a waiter/barman on standby all day to meet his food and considerable alcohol needs. He would also have had a personal driver who might wait for hours on end while his drunken OC attended some conference or other.

This little barracks had THREE bars - for officers, NCOs and private soldiers - with the natural consequence that each bar its own bar manager, barmen/waiters, and administration. At an earlier time it also had three dining halls for officers, NCOs and privates - though this did change.

Many officers (not all of course) abused such positions. The messes (bars) were full of a morning with soldiers talking over the issues of the day. Lunchbreaks,in many instances, stretched from 1230 to 2pm and finishing time (if one was not on duty) was 4.30. Hardly a productive environment - even if anything could be produced.

Until recently the barracks housed the HQ of the Reserve Defence Forces: this unit would have been served by many senior officers and NCOs - whom (at a great cost to the State) were employed pushing paper from A to B in order to prop up a reserve army that is, in itself an utter waste of taxpayers cash. These officers, in particular, receive huge salaries, substantial mileage and disturbance allowances, 40+ days annual leave, golf days-out, pensions etc etc.

Small military posts like Kickham Barracks did serve a purpose and were a great boost to the local community - for both social, employment and emergency purposes. However, the aforementioned do not, on their own or in their totality, justify keeping such barracks open.

Hospital wards are closing, people are lying on trolleys and thousands are losing their jobs. In this context it is difficult to support the maintenance of a small military post in a small inland town. In essence, 150 troops enter the barracks each day: they cook meals for each other, carry out administrative tasks, do some training, go to the mess or the canteen - all for what? So that they can perform the occasional cash escort, prison duty or overseas trip?

Certainly it is problematic for serving personnel who will have to move. For historical/sentimental reasons it is also a sad occasion. And while we can blame this, and previous governments for many things, it is almost impossible to justify the maintenance of this relic of a bygone age.

Fionn

nobody lost their job - yet!!!
the local economy wont feel the impact of this until probably towards the end of the year. The closure of the barracks and the distribution of personnel means that the income that Clonmel benefited from it is now transferred to other constituencies, see we dont have any viable politicians here, those constituencies with more powerful politicians trampled over our local economy and walked off with the spoils.

There is no savings to be made - that was ok when barracks were closed a few years back and SOLD!
Kickham Barracks wont be sold, at least not in the short term

you remember a time when the army was a very different place to what it is now, what went on there years ago has no bearing now!! the Defence Forces have changed radically in the last 10 years or so, often held up by government as an example of an efficient and progressive organisation.


there was a thread in the Economics Rection here on Boards
i'm not going to re-type my views on this but they are there in these links;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75495721&postcount=12

Theres other threads on whether we need an army or not, really it's not a valid discussion here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75498099&postcount=16

martin09

It certainly is valid to discuss what is a waste of public funds. One cannot separate the issue of the cost of something and whether that something is relevant or useful.

The local economy argument has been used ad nauseum for years. Every little town in Ireland had a hospital: it is now accepted that this was a complete waste of public funds.

There is no military/strategic/social/economic reason for having a military post in all of the following: Cork, Clonmel, Kilkenny, Limerick, Tralee (Limited numbers I agree),Galway, Athlone, Dundalk, Dublin, The Curragh, etc.

What need in 2012 does the population of Clonmel and its hinterland have for a military barracks? And please let no one suggest that 'the lads are great for helping out in the snow': it is not their role or purpose.


"held up by government as an example of an efficient and progressive organisation": efficient at what, progressive at what? Lets double the numbers in the Defence Forces and build an extension to Kickham Barracks "because they are more efficient and progressive".

We have relative stability on the border, there has been no mass break-out from Portlaoise Prison in decades. In spite of all the cutbacks there has been no social unrest. We contribute a tiny number of personnel to overseas missions. There is no significant terrorist threat. It is acknowledged that things can change but it should also be acknowledged that 150 ladies and gentlemen in Kickham barracks and thousands more in many other barracks have very little to do.

Fionn

hmmmm theres a lot of ad nauseum around!!

sort of like what you might hear from a bitter person
but whatever :rolleyes:


anyway - you'll be happy now!! i've noticed weeds already growing there...


along with the barracks does anybody realise that clonmel is looking more and more like a ghost town nowadays?

martin09

You will notice that in my argument I refrained from making any personal comment - as should be the case in all arguments. We sink to lesser standard when we use words like 'ad nauseum' and 'bitter' about another persons opinion. It is your right to hold an opinion and to state that opinion: it is also my right - without my being accused of bitterness.

Like most soldiers I have many memories of happy years spent in Kickham Barracks and other locations. Those whom I have served with have invariably been kind, generous and the very essence of decency. It is sad to see the closure of any source of employment and especially so when it is located in an historic and beautiful building.

Notwithstanding that, I have argued, in previous posts that I believe it is the right thing to do. You will notice that there is no bitterness in what I write - just logic. You would do well to make your case with logic and with fact alone. You might also remember that you begin to lose your argument when you have to resort to personal comment about one, whose opinion differs from yours..

Yours respectfully.