George Lee's 'I'm gonna fix the economy'

Duke Leonal Felmet

I half listened to this on the telly while I made dinner. Apparantly pointing out where thousands of jobs could easily be made, but were being lost because of regulation or the government.

Was it any good, or was he talking ****e?

Bartyman

I thought it was good that he highlighted the amount of government work being sent outside of Ireland.

I know printers who lost their jobs because government work was being sent to England.

We give them the money to spend, the least they could do is spend it within the country.

Feile foods lost a contract because of €6000.00, yet it would have taken 6 people of the dole, that makes no sense at all.

View

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

I half listened to this on the telly while I made dinner. Apparantly pointing out where thousands of jobs could easily be made, but were being lost because of regulation or the government.

Was it any good, or was he talking ****e?

Since he has all the answers maybe George should run for election or something like that?

nesf

Bartyman wrote: »

I thought it was good that he highlighted the amount of government work being sent outside of Ireland.

That's an EU issue, all tenders have to be European-wide and the State can't favour Irish firms over others. Believe it's rough, the company I'm involved in lives and breathes by getting these tenders and it's getting more difficult every year.

Conversely we can do the same with contracts in other countries, but being high wage, high cost it's not as favourable to us.

BeeDI

Clare County Council, have awarded this contract to a company from Northeren Ireland, even though, the construction sector in the south is decimated. http://www.tobin.ie/en/news/contract-signed-for-flood-relief-scheme-at-gort-road-business-park

ardmacha

We give them the money to spend, the least they could do is spend it within the country.

This kind of comment is shortsighted and pointless. Ireland is relying on exports to get out of this and we are members of an economic union. Ireland cannot start discriminating when Irish companies are seeking work all over the world, for instance note the award of road works in Scotland to Roadbridge. They can reorganise the scale of tenders etc, but have to award them fairly and Irish companies have to become competitive to get them.

Bartyman

ardmacha wrote: »

This kind of comment is shortsighted and pointless. Ireland is relying on exports to get out of this and we are members of an economic union. Ireland cannot start discriminating when Irish companies are seeking work all over the world, for instance note the award of road works in Scotland to Roadbridge. They can reorganise the scale of tenders etc, but have to award them fairly and Irish companies have to become competitive to get them.

Well if it keeps going the way it's going, there won't be much left to export, it'll as be sourced abroad.

I understand the tender business, but as George Lee pointed out, if they considered the impact on the country in relation to job creation associated with these tenders, then maybe the contract would be awarded to the company that could take people off the dole.

I'm as much exposed to these tenders as anyone else and yes we are high cost in relation to other countries, but the green flag has to be flown on some occaisions.

testicle

BeeDI wrote: »

Clare County Council, have awarded this contract to a company from Northeren Ireland, even though, the construction sector in the south is decimated. http://www.tobin.ie/en/news/contract-signed-for-flood-relief-scheme-at-gort-road-business-park

So the government should spend more to save Irish jobs? How about Irish companies stop ripping people off, and they might win some tenders?

GetWithIt

Bartyman wrote: »

Feile foods lost a contract because of €6000.00, yet it would have taken 6 people of the dole, that makes no sense at all.

I thought was bs myself. You either have price competitive tenders or you don't.

wildefalcon

vicious cycle

High prices, high taxes = high benefits, large public sector

Which is fine, if you can keep borrowing money to feed the beast.

You can keep borrowing so long as the economy grows, which means "industry" or the private sector must grow.

But if the public sector borrow all the money then the private sector can't.

With no private sector borrowing there will be no growth.

Only solution is to reduce public sector borrowing, not default (as it jacks up the interest rate) and funnel the loan capital into the private sector, where it can grow.

Other pitfalls - private sector includes construction sector, and we know what that means!

And Ireland is in a monetary Union, so it competes for capital and markets, so we've to reduce costs/taxes/benefits for everyone.

Our public sector costs 50 odd billion, revenue is about 30 odd billion, which means we've borrowed 40 to 60 billion in the last 2 to 3 years.

We've got to stop spending on the public sector by about 20 billion, pray to all that's holy that the economy grows and that taxes pay the interest on the 60 billion, and start chipping away at the capital.

That's it.

View

Bartyman wrote: »

I understand the tender business, but as George Lee pointed out, if they considered the impact on the country in relation to job creation associated with these tenders, then maybe the contract would be awarded to the company that could take people off the dole.

Well, if the other member states of the EU adopted that attitude for the purchase of PCs (in terms of both software and hardware components) for their government bodies, presumably our exports would be seriously effected as Intel and Microsoft would find they would be better off setting up shop in one of the "Big 4" or even "Big 6" EU member states. There certainly wouldn't be much point in either of them being here, would there?

It would appear Mr Lee is advocating plain old fashioned protectionism as the solution to our problems which is rather strange given that our exports are at record highs...

BeeDI

testicle wrote: »

So the government should spend more to save Irish jobs? How about Irish companies stop ripping people off, and they might win some tenders?

The problem is that costs on southeren contractors are much higher than counterparts in NI!
Goverment is NOT tackling the issue of competitiveness, and costs of doing business here.
It's bizzare, that an coutfit from NI, can come down to county Clare, and do a basic drainage contract cheaper than equivalent company in south.
Min wage in construction sector in south is more than double that which applies in the north.

Ellis Dee

George Lee had his chance to do something about the problems he is so eager to point to, given that he was elected to the Dáil by something of a landslide. But he threw his rattler out of the pram a few wet days later when, presumably contrary to his expectations, the Blueshirts failed to rally around him and give him his natural due as an omniscient messiah. Then he resigned from both the Dáil and Fine Gael. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

In other words, he got off the pot before he even shat.:D:D

Duke Leonal Felmet

BeeDI wrote: »

testicle wrote: »

So the government should spend more to save Irish jobs? How about Irish companies stop ripping people off, and they might win some tenders?

The problem is that costs on southeren contractors are much higher than counterparts in NI!
Goverment is NOT tackling the issue of competitiveness, and costs of doing business here.
It's bizzare, that an coutfit from NI, can come down to county Clare, and do a basic drainage contract cheaper than equivalent company in south.
Min wage in construction sector in south is more than double that which applies in the north.

Good ol' unions...

ResearchWill

I remember a number of years ago, before the boom, I had a Dutch friend living in Ireland, it used to annoy her no end when Irish people went on about only buying Irish. As she said if all the Dutch and Germans etc. took the same attitude with Ireland we would be really in trouble.

I think George Lee is showing how much of a muppet he really is. He got elected, and just before his sabitical ran out in RTE he ran back to safe job. Put his money where his mouth is leave RTE set up a private production company and try and sell his products to TV companies around the world.

Only one thing worse than armchair football players its armchair business people.

bbam

I think George has no credibility..
He showed is lack of understanding of all things governmental when he threw up his seat at the first hurdle...
The man made an idiot of himself and those who voted for him, now he's back on the telly, now that's Irish:rolleyes:

thebman

nesf wrote: »

That's an EU issue, all tenders have to be European-wide and the State can't favour Irish firms over others. Believe it's rough, the company I'm involved in lives and breathes by getting these tenders and it's getting more difficult every year.

Conversely we can do the same with contracts in other countries, but being high wage, high cost it's not as favourable to us.

There are ways to get around the tendering rules though, well not so much get around them but bias the way contracts are constructed to favor Irish companies.

The government isn't doing it though. The French are better at it than us I believe. France isn't exactly a cheap place to do business but manages to ensure a good proportion of their tenders go to French companies.

Nothingbetter2d

introduce an EU wide law

if you want to sell manufactured goods in the EU you must produce the goods in the EU

then we might actually see the factories with jobs return.

books4sale

I think the OP put it best ........'half listened'

George Lee, nobody listens to this lad anymore!

His creds shot. :cool:

RichardAnd

George Lee could have done more to fix the economy when he was still a TD.

Seth Brundle

RichardAnd wrote: »

George Lee could have done more to fix the economy when he was still a TD.

In fairness, with internal politics he didn't have a chance. This probably was been forecasted from the outset but he still went ahead.

lasnoufle

thebman wrote: »

There are ways to get around the tendering rules though, well not so much get around them but bias the way contracts are constructed to favor Irish companies.

The government isn't doing it though. The French are better at it than us I believe. France isn't exactly a cheap place to do business but manages to ensure a good proportion of their tenders go to French companies.

Apart from the fact that any service will need to be delivered in French so that will naturally reduce tenders from non French speaking companies, do you have any source for that?

Delancey

I have little doubt George Lee's decision to enter politics was out of a genuine desire to serve and perhaps be of some value to this country.
The great irony is that he probably would have been of far greater service had he stayed in RTE and been able to report on the growing disaster that was settling over the country.

Protectionism is an out-dated idea and I'm quite disappointed to hear George Lee advocating it.

Suryavarman

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

introduce an EU wide law

if you want to sell manufactured goods in the EU you must produce the goods in the EU

then we might actually see the factories with jobs return.

EU wide law? Fu*k that. How about a law stating we only by goods manufactured in Ireland? No wait I got that wrong. A law stating we only buy goods manufactured in Dublin? Wrong again! Lets only buy goods manufactured in Swords! Damn it hold on a second, my wife is still out of a job! Lets only buy goods manufactured in our house! Problem solved! Sure we might be poor but at least we all have a job!

If you think it would be silly to limit trade to only among people of one household then you must recognise that it is silly to limit trade to among a few countries. We benefit from having goods manufactured in other countries as it makes goods cheaper and frees up people to specialise in certain areas in our own country. Free trade is a good thing, it always has and it always will. As much as I hate to say it, Paul Krugman said it best when he said:

If there were an Economist’s Creed, it would surely contain the affirmations 'I understand the Principle of Comparative Advantage' and 'I advocate Free Trade.'

thebman

lasnoufle wrote: »

Apart from the fact that any service will need to be delivered in French so that will naturally reduce tenders from non French speaking companies, do you have any source for that?

No I know someone involved in issuing tenders.

We have the same don't we, Irish??

recedite

thebman wrote: »

No I know someone involved in issuing tenders.

We have the same don't we, Irish??

Plus extra jobs for the gaeilgeoir translators needed for the Irish businessmen.
Wait... how do we stop the gaeilgeoirs selling translations to the foreigner?

ianuss

thebman wrote: »

No I know someone involved in issuing tenders.

We have the same don't we, Irish??

Not really. Irish is more or less a dead language.

amacca

Delancey wrote: »

I have little doubt George Lee's decision to enter politics was out of a genuine desire to serve and perhaps be of some value to this country.
The great irony is that he probably would have been of far greater service had he stayed in RTE and been able to report on the growing disaster that was settling over the country.

Protectionism is an out-dated idea and I'm quite disappointed to hear George Lee advocating it.

would there be anyway they could factor in the dole payemnts they wont have to make if they awarded the contracts to irish companies when reviewing the tenders?:D

eg: sure the spanish company appears cheaper...but if we factor in costs we wont incur because of the jobs being here...were afraid the irish company is still ahead...and if the other tenders can beat this price well then at least we will be getting the work done even cheaper!

thebman

recedite wrote: »

Plus extra jobs for the gaeilgeoir translators needed for the Irish businessmen.
Wait... how do we stop the gaeilgeoirs selling translations to the foreigner?

Don't know how do the French do it? I imagine the reality is most companies don't bother going for tenders where they would have to hire people from such a small pool of talent abroad as they'd have to pay them large amounts to get them to relocate or pay them to work from another country.

I know a company I worked for that released software in France just ignored the problem initially hoping to work out a cheap solution later on. I don't know how it worked out for them, I got out before it was released when things like hope were planned into the project :0

Languages are a great way to stop companies from other countries taking on projects TBH. It causes all sorts of headaches.

not yet

nesf wrote: »

That's an EU issue, all tenders have to be European-wide and the State can't favour Irish firms over others. Believe it's rough, the company I'm involved in lives and breathes by getting these tenders and it's getting more difficult every year.

Conversely we can do the same with contracts in other countries, but being high wage, high cost it's not as favourable to us.

This is not really the full story.......Italy,France and other euro countries manage their tenders in a way that keeps the contract in the country of origin.

All contracts over 250,000 must go into the euro journal, but if local government agencies broke these down into lots it can legally be done!!

If say a tender goes out for PPE for 1million this can be broken down into lots of protective footwear lets say 200k- gloves,disp masks,safety helmets etc 200k, hi-viz wear 200k and so on. All it takes is just a touch of creativity and some balls.

amacca

thebman wrote: »

Languages are a great way to stop companies from other countries taking on projects TBH. It causes all sorts of headaches.

theres the solution gentlemen....all tenders go out in irish from now on.....boards/contact people will be gaelgoirs also

ianuss

amacca wrote: »

theres the solution gentlemen....all tenders go out in irish from now on.....boards/contact people will be gaelgoirs also

Great idea, put out tenders in a language that almost nobody speaks.

amacca

ianuss wrote: »

Great idea, put out tenders in a language that almost nobody speaks.

tongue.....in.....cheek.

djpbarry

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if you want to sell manufactured goods in the EU you must produce the goods in the EU

"If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry, employed in a way in which we have some advantage."

touts

When he was shut out by Fine Gael for not having served his time filling potholes for 20 years George should have just resigned from the party and set up his own political party. As we saw in the presidential election there is a huge floating vote 50%+ that is moving around the place looking for a home. He could well now be leader of a party with 15-20 TDs behind him and have replaced Labour as the Kingmaker. But instead he wimped out.

recedite

touts wrote: »

George should have just resigned from the party and set up his own political party.

He could still do that; by the next election FG and Labour will be competing against FF for the most unpopular party ever prize.