Issue with Coppers

BOBIDGE

Hi,

I was recently in Coppers night club. I bought a round of drinks and paid by laser, I checked my receipts after and I was charged double. So I called the barman, then the bar manager and it got sorted.

I thought this was an a once off mistake. A friend of mine was in coppers last night and the same thing happened him. He bought a pint of Guinness and got change from €10 instead of €20. They tried to charge him double. He asked the barman and he immediately gave him the correct change. He reacted as if he got caught out.

Has this happened anyone else in Coppers? Is it a <SNIP> that is going on?

Africa

That place needs closing so badly its not even funny.

Wouldnt be suprised though, the only people in there are either desperate people or drunks. Generally both. So who would they be to notice it

foggy_lad

BOBIDGE wrote: »

Hi,

I was recently in Coppers night club. I bought a round of drinks and paid by laser, I checked my receipts after and I was charged double. So I called the barman, then the bar manager and it got sorted.

I thought this was an a once off mistake. A friend of mine was in coppers last night and the same thing happened him. He bought a pint of Guinness and got change from €10 instead of €20. They tried to charge him double. He asked the barman and he immediately gave him the correct change. He reacted as if he got caught out.

Has this happened anyone else in Coppers? Is it a scam that is going on?

Sounds like a classic scam. It can usually be blamed on the till or even human error if the bill is questioned. You could write to the company letting them know of your concerns as I am sure they don't want such behaviour from any of their employees and could easily check for the frequency of such mistakes.

Smartguy

It is a bit presumptious to assume a scam when human error is still the most likely scenario.
Does the employee even gain with the situation re the laser card described above.

discombobulate

Smartguy wrote: »

It is a bit presumptious to assume a scam when human error is still the most likely scenario.
Does the employee even gain with the situation re the laser card described above.

Of course they would. If they put a laser receipt in the till for €20 and swiped €10 for themselves

groom

I notice barmen have a high tendency to forget to give you your cashback when you get it in pubs. The chances of this happening increase the later in the night even when the bar isn't busy i.e. your the only customer at the counter

Millicent

discombobulate wrote: »

Of course they would. If they put a laser receipt in the till for €20 and swiped €10 for themselves

That won't work unless they put in a cashback amount of €10. The till will still be expecting that €10 you say they'd swipe for themselves.

Millicent

groom wrote: »

I notice barmen have a high tendency to forget to give you your cashback when you get it in pubs. The chances of this happening increase the later in the night even when the bar isn't busy i.e. your the only customer at the counter

Do you know what? At the end of a long, busy shift, people get tired. They are human and they make mistakes. Are there are a few who are on the take? Sure. But really, it's a simple thing to do when your mind is elsewhere.

OP, the barman made a mistake, you pointed it out and it was rectified. Unless you have some evidence that the bar was running a scam, I think you shouldn't read much into simple human error and a coincidence with your friend.

discombobulate

Millicent wrote: »

That won't work unless they put in a cashback amount of €10. The till will still be expecting that €10 you say they'd swipe for themselves.

Customer hands in laser for €10 transaction
Barman puts in €20
Gives receipt to customer for €20 which they don't check
Till now has €20 for a €10 transaction
Barman puts €10 in pocket.
Till is now level.

Not implying that barmen are at this or anything just how it would work

Millicent

discombobulate wrote: »

Customer hands in laser for €10 transaction
Barman puts in €20
Gives receipt to customer for €20 which they don't check
Till now has €20 for a €10 transaction
Barman puts €10 in pocket.
Till is now level.

Not implying that barmen are at this or anything just how it would work

No, it's not. Trust me, I have spot checked hundreds of tills in my time and worked in a cash office adding the day's takings for a supermarket.

If the barman puts in €20 as a Laser transaction, the till expects that Laser amount and tallies it. That €20 is added to the Eftpos or credit card total on the till. So, for example, if a barman rings in €20 Laser and €20 cash, the till expects €40 to be held in the till.

If the barman takes €10 from the till in cash after ringing in a €20 Laser transaction, the till is now down €10, as that €10 is in addition to the €20 charge--it doesn't replace it. The till is expecting €30 in cash and Laser, but only has €20 if he takes that tenner out.

Now, if the barman puts in €10 on a Laser transaction and €10 cashback, the till will subtract that €10 from the amount that should be held in the till. The barman could theoretically pocket that €10 now, as the till is not expecting it to be there. Otherwise, whoever counts the tills at the end of a shift will notice the discrepancy.

Does that make sense? Sorry, I've tried to explain it the best as I can, so I hope I haven't made it confusing.

discombobulate

Yeah I get what your saying for a supermarket. So €40 of sales have been input into the till. Would the laser machine not be seperate to the till though in a bar in that unlike a supermarket the amount isn't against what the till says but the amount manually keyed into a mobile unit?

For example for €40 in sales he receives €20 cash and does a laser transaction for €30 (which should be for €20). This would be €50 taken in so if a tenner was taken it would be balanced out at €40 by €10 cahs left and a €30 laser receipt.

I know for example my local will give cashback using a credit card just by throwing an extra €50 through.

Millicent

discombobulate wrote: »

Yeah I get what your saying for a supermarket. So €40 of sales have been input into the till. Would the laser machine not be seperate to the till though in a bar in that unlike a supermarket the amount isn't against what the till says but the amount manually keyed into a mobile unit?

For example for €40 in sales he receives €20 cash and does a laser transaction for €30 (which should be for €20). This would be €50 taken in so if a tenner was taken it would be balanced out at €40 by €10 cahs left and a €30 laser receipt.

I know for example my local will give cashback using a credit card just by throwing an extra €50 through.

It's not just for a supermarket--any till would work like this as the process for tallying the day's takings is much the same for all of them.

The machine is physically separate but the amount on Laser cards will usually be tallied by the till--they are generally hooked up together. On most machines (all the modern ones I would think), the amount would be added to a total printable receipt line that might look something like this:

Sales for week: xxx
Sales for day: xxx
Total EFTPOS/Card/Credit Amount: xxx
Total Cash: xxx (This cash may not be on all receipts--you can figure out the cash amount by subtracting the credit card amount from the overall sales for the day.)

Even if they are separately counted, the total sales will still have to add up from the two payment types.

For your example:

For example for €40 in sales he receives €20 cash and does a laser transaction for €30 (which should be for €20). This would be €50 taken in so if a tenner was taken it would be balanced out at €40 by €10 cahs left and a €30 laser receipt.

If he keys in €30 and €20 cash, the till is expecting €50, not €40.

However, I can see what you mean: if the cost of the transaction is only €20, then the till should pop open as €10 is owed to the customer. In that case, now that I think of it, the barman could pocket the change from the transaction. Most receipts would count that as €10 cashback, so always look for the receipt.

So, to do that scam, the cost of the transaction has to be less than the cost of the sale keyed into the till. It can be done that way.

Generally, though, sticking to what I said, that's usually just human error and counting the float at the end of day or a spot check will usually prove that you have/haven't been short changed.

I find them expensive for drink but the woman are cheap.

groom

Millicent wrote: »

Do you know what? At the end of a long, busy shift, people get tired. They are human and they make mistakes. Are there are a few who are on the take? Sure. But really, it's a simple thing to do when your mind is elsewhere.

OP, the barman made a mistake, you pointed it out and it was rectified. Unless you have some evidence that the bar was running a scam, I think you shouldn't read much into simple human error and a coincidence with your friend.

Yeah I can understand that sometimes there are genuine mistakes but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of mistake relating to forgetting to give cashback from my experience.

Traumadoc

I doubt this is a scam.
They would want to be very brave to rob of their usual clientele.

Antomus Prime

Millicent wrote: »

Do you know what? At the end of a long, busy shift, people get tired. They are human and they make mistakes. Are there are a few who are on the take? Sure. But really, it's a simple thing to do when your mind is elsewhere.

OP, the barman made a mistake, you pointed it out and it was rectified. Unless you have some evidence that the bar was running a scam, I think you shouldn't read much into simple human error and a coincidence with your friend.

Good point but the fact that it was for a round of drinks and not just one.... most barmen would notice that of someone was paying for lets say 3 pints, well in coppers that's gonna cost just under €18... not just under €36, and in most bars they have to input the amount into the machine... I'm not saying that in this incident that the barman was trying to pull a fast one but it does happen, and i've come across it a few times. Hence why i have using a laser/credit card in a bar.......... that and the fact that when the person in front of me is taking ages to pay cause they're using a card it pisses me off!! lol

groom wrote: »

Yeah I can understand that sometimes there are genuine mistakes but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of mistake relating to forgetting to give cashback from my experience.

Thats happened me twice. One time it was 100 quid so i went mental and got the money back straight away, the other time was only a tenner but the bar manager came out ans said that they'd have to count the till and because it was so busy could i come back at either the end of the night or early the next day.... I basically told him if he didnt do it now i'd be on to the guards... he opened the till and gave me a tenner without checking anything, which spoke volumes to me about his attitude towards managing a bar!!!

Adyx

Antomus Prime wrote: »

Good point but the fact that it was for a round of drinks and not just one.... most barmen would notice that of someone was paying for lets say 3 pints, well in coppers that's gonna cost just under €18... not just under €36, and in most bars they have to input the amount into the machine... I'm not saying that in this incident that the barman was trying to pull a fast one but it does happen, and i've come across it a few times. Hence why i have using a laser/credit card in a bar.......... that and the fact that when the person in front of me is taking ages to pay cause they're using a card it pisses me off!! lol



Thats happened me twice. One time it was 100 quid so i went mental and got the money back straight away, the other time was only a tenner but the bar manager came out ans said that they'd have to count the till and because it was so busy could i come back at either the end of the night or early the next day.... I basically told him if he didnt do it now i'd be on to the guards... he opened the till and gave me a tenner without checking anything, which spoke volumes to me about his attitude towards managing a bar!!!

What do you think the Guards would have done for you, out of interest?

Antomus Prime

Adyx wrote: »

What do you think the Guards would have done for you, out of interest?

Sweet fook al!!!l....but it worked

LostCorkGuy

That happens in all scummy clubs !
In cubins in cork I handed the bar man a 50 for drinks costing 18quid he gave me 2euro change I kicked up a fuss and asked for the manager who told me come back the next day when the tills were balanced , came back the next morning person working there hadn't heard anything and refused to look into it !
Scummy bars hire scummy staff , if he does that 3 times a night hes up 90 quid

Antomus Prime

DonnaDo wrote: »

I'm surprised it's taken a bunch scientists to realise that if you turned the lights on in Coppers, the number of STI's would be reduced.... haha:

http://dublin.studenty.me/2011/12/09/new-scientific-research-shows-increasing-the-lighting-in-copper-faced-jacks-by-10-would-decrease-stis-in-ireland/

Only been there once myself but it was terrifying. :eek:

I read that article too, one of the funniest things ive ever read!!! lol

fullstop

BOBIDGE wrote: »

Hi,

I was recently in Coppers night club. I bought a round of drinks and paid by laser, I checked my receipts after and I was charged double. So I called the barman, then the bar manager and it got sorted.

I thought this was an a once off mistake. A friend of mine was in coppers last night and the same thing happened him. He bought a pint of Guinness and got change from €10 instead of €20. They tried to charge him double. He asked the barman and he immediately gave him the correct change. He reacted as if he got caught out.

Has this happened anyone else in Coppers? Is it a <SNIP> that is going on?

Not in Coppers, but in a well known pub just off Stephen's green (very popular with American tourists), 3 of us were in having pints on a Saturday afternoon about 2 months ago. First round, my friend gets ripped off to the tune of €30, given change of a €20 instead of a €50. When he called the barman over, he went to the till before he even came over...caught red handed.

I bought the next round, gave €20 for a round of €13.50. Got a load of coins as change so checked it and was €2 short (different barman). Called him back over before I even took the money off the counter and he started arguing that I had the correct change. I had to count it out to him 3 times before he agreed he was wrong. I told him they were taking the piss short changing us 2 rounds in a row and he just shrugged.

When they try to do this to locals on a Saturday afternoon, I can imagine how much these scumbags fleece out of tourists who probably don't even check the price of drinks.