Car off the road question.

sunshinediver

Hi guys,

I would appreciate some advice on this, so the gf is moving abroad for a year with work and intends to bring her car with her. Is it possible to declare the car off the road to avoid paying car tax in Ireland and renew it once she returns?

Does the "off the road" declaration cover your car being in another territory also or is it specifically for cars remaining in Ireland but not on public roads?

Cheers guys
SD

CiniO

sunshinediver wrote: »

Hi guys,

I would appreciate some advice on this, so the gf is moving abroad for a year with work and intends to bring her car with her. Is it possible to declare the car off the road to avoid paying car tax in Ireland and renew it once she returns?

Does the "off the road" declaration cover your car being in another territory also or is it specifically for cars remaining in Ireland but not on public roads?

Cheers guys
SD

I started a thread about it some time ago.

Here it is: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70658907

I'd be greatful if we could continue discussion there, as barely anyone showed an opinion in this thread.
I know there's a rule of not resurrecting old threads on this forum, but this is actually very specific topic, and would be great to get some more responce, even after a year.

Gophur

There's no need to declare anything but your GF may run into problems with the local authorities by having a foreign registered car over an extended period of time. She may also have difficulty insuring an ROI registered car outside the State for longer than three months.

corktina

to use an Irish registered car abroad it has to be road legal here.

There no doubt will be local regulations on how long she can use it in a foreign country wiothout re-registering it and her Insurance Company may have something to say about it too,.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

to use an Irish registered car abroad it has to be road legal here.

I've heard it plenty of times here, but no one could point any regulations about it.
Even more - international traffic regulations come mostly from Vienna convention on road traffic from 1968, it was reveled here recently, that Ireland didn't sign, neither ratified this convention.
In that case I really don't know what regulations govern movement of Irish registered cars abroad.

About motortax I gave a link to another thread, where I quoted regulations according to which motor tax is only required in Ireland.

sunshinediver

Cheers lads.

Gophur

corktina wrote: »

to use an Irish registered car abroad it has to be road legal here.
.........

Says who?

The legality of any car depends on where it is being used. I would seriously doubt an Irish registered RHD car would confirm to Italian or French law, just because it is road-legal in Ireland. The lights, for one, would be non-conforming. The payment of Irish motor tax has no relevance. Do you honestly think a German or Swiss cop will care if an Irish car has an up to date tax disc in it's window?

A valid NCT? Irrelevant. But the car must be road-worthy (not the same as having a valid NCT)

corktina

Gophur wrote: »

Says who?

)

says who? the Governments of the Countries you are visiting. You try explaining to a UK Traffic Cop that because your car is Irish but not in Ireland ,it doesnt need to be taxed or tested. It would be impounded before you could draw breath.

Gophur

corktina wrote: »

says who? the Governments of the Countries you are visiting. You try explaining to a UK Traffic Cop that because your car is Irish but not in Ireland ,it doesnt need to be taxed or tested. It would be impounded before you could draw breath.

My car does not need to be tested in Ireland. Are you trying to say a UK Cop would know this?

FFS, Irish Law means nothing when you are in another country. Look at all the foreign cars in Ireland. For all we know these may or may not be legal in their home countries, but why should a Garda know, or care, whether motor tax is paid/payable where the car originated?

If you take all the discs off your windscreen when travelling, do you think a UK cop will know what discs are supposed to be displayed?

aujopimur

If you take all the discs off your windscreen when travelling, do you think a UK cop will know what discs are supposed to be displayed?[/QUOTE]

You'd be suprised at the level of knowledge UK cops have of the Irish tax/test/insurance requirments, you'll find many drivers have got fines for not having tax etc. on their vehicles while in the UK.

corktina

I think the onus will be on you to prove your car is road legal. You can argue all the while they load it up if you like...

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

I think the onus will be on you to prove your car is road legal. You can argue all the while they load it up if you like...

As UK regulation are fully available online, and obviousy they are all in English (so no language barriers) maybe someone would try to find a requirement for a car to be road legal in home country.
Nothing mentioned about it in Vienna Convention, and I really doubt there is any requirement like that.

I went through Irish regulations and Polish regulations, and nothing there about requirement for foreign cars to be road legal.
All requirement in Poland are those from Vienna convention.
In Ireland I actually didn't find any requirements at all - maybe I wasn't looking well enough.

corktina

common sense.
Make sure your car is road legal if you go abroad.If the Police there think it isnt and seize it, you have a huge problem on your hands.
You can interpret the situation whichever way you please, but it may cut no ice with the Cop on the day.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

common sense.
Make sure your car is road legal if you go abroad.If the Police there think it isnt and seize it, you have a huge problem on your hands.
You can interpret the situation whichever way you please, but it may cut no ice with the Cop on the day.

They can't just seize vehicle because they have such caprice.
Obviously if someone's driving abroad for 2 weeks holidays, it would be stupid to in a car that isn't even legal in Ireland.

But in this thread we are talking about someone who's going to use her Irish registered car abroad for a year.
No point in paying motor tax for it then, as there is no legal requirement to do so.

corktina

CiniO wrote: »

They can't just seize vehicle because they have such caprice.
.

can they not? Try telling them that at the roadside as they load your car. Just because YOU think you don't need to tax your car abroad, doesn't mean they will agree with you.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

can they not? Try telling them that at the roadside as they load your car. Just because YOU think you don't need to tax your car abroad, doesn't mean they will agree with you.

It's not a matter of anyone agreeing with me.
It's a matter of law.

I'll have a chance to test it myself next month

scoobymunster

Copied from the DirectGov website (general UK Govt site)

Vehicles registered in other countries that are temporarily brought into the UK by overseas residents are usually exempt from UK registration and licensing. EU vehicles that are being used within or between Community Member States are allowed, under EC Directive 83/182, to be used on public roads without the need to register or pay duties in the host country. These provisions limit visits to six months in a 12 month period and the vehicle must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of its home country

Maybe someone else can also read that EC Directive as I can't see anything in it explicitly requiring you to have valid tax in your home country. My take is that your only required to have valid insurance and NCT. However, any UK police I have spoken to would seize the car if it had no road tax, but can't offer the legislation which empowers them to do so.

CiniO

scoobymunster wrote: »

Copied from the DirectGov website (general UK Govt site)



Maybe someone else can also read that EC Directive as I can't see anything in it explicitly requiring you to have valid tax in your home country. My take is that your only required to have valid insurance and NCT. However, any UK police I have spoken to would seize the car if it had no road tax, but can't offer the legislation which empowers them to do so.

I went through this directive, and it only concerns taxes in country where vehicle is temporary imported, stating that they don't have to be paid if it's temporary import.

The last sentence from you DirectGov quotation:

These provisions limit visits to six months in a 12 month period and the vehicle must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of its home country

Doesn't seem to have any law background. First of all it's stated that this provisions limit visits to six months in a 12 month period.
While the directive says:

1. Member States may maintain and/or introduce more liberal arrangements than those provided for in this Directive. In particular, they may, at the request of the importer, permit temporary importation for a period longer than those referred to in Articles 3 and 4 (2).

So pretty much it's up to local regulations if it's going to be within directive or more liberal.

Statement that vehicles must comply with licensing and registration rules in home country, has no background in this directive - as you already mentioned it.

You say that UK police will seize Irish car if it's not taxed.
How are they supposed to know if it is taxed or not? They have no power to check tax disc, and they have no possibility to check if it's actually real or fake. Driver is not required by any law to display tax disc while abroad.
It's only offence on Irish road to use vehicle without displaying tax disc.

If I pay my motor-tax but leave a tax disc at home, will UK police seize my car for driving without tax? Surely I can claim tax is paid, and I'm just not displaying disc.

corktina

the situation is that they might seize a car that they believe isnt compliant and it will be up to the owner to prove it is. Not a chance Id want to take in a foreign country.

scoobymunster

^^This. To the best of my understanding, it's a legal grey area which legislation doesn't clearly state having no tax abroad is an offence, but it's automatically treated as such. English police tend use the theory that if your vehicle would not be road legal in your home country then it's not compliant for UK roads(thus no tax would make your car unroadworthy). The onus on you would be to prove otherwise which might be excessively difficult. My only other dealings with EU police would be in Poland, but that wasn't regarding motoring so I can't say how other EU forces would deal with this issue.