Gaddafi Was To Receive U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS AWARD

Jagle

Link: http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/11/04/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/


Indeed strange how a global media can fail to report this while we were invading Libya. While not erasing the bad things Gaddafi has done, shows a different side then the war criminal

theTinker

It was only after I seen his blood beaten body being kicked around like trash did i also hear about the wonderful education and health care system lybia has. It seems in some respects,this man wanted great things for his people...
I believe he had a 90% turn out of a major city for his arrival parade and the largest flag made by the people in his honour.

On the other side of the coin, he was equally brutal by all respects. I've heard stories from lybians who personally swore they've been in cities where he has arrived, not liked the parade, and systematically shut down basic services and power as punishment.
Who order butchers to only serve chicken on thursdays because HE liked chicken on thursdays. Naysayers were quickly punished.

It seems, He was a mad man, whose temperment brought great things and horrible things. Odd sort of fello.

Jagle

indeed i agree with you 100%. also heard of the good things he did

he is akin to hitler, another mad man who did terrible and great things in some peoples opinion

Jonny7

Jagle wrote: »

Link: http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/11/04/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/


Indeed strange how a global media can fail to report this while we were invading Libya. While not erasing the bad things Gaddafi has done, shows a different side then the war criminal

UN Report Offers Smoking Gun Proof of NATO and US Lies about Libya

Hmm bit of an agenda there.

I've seen it mentioned in mainstream media, I've actually had a look at the review myself, basically Gaddafi set up his own "human rights watch" (bit of a sham really) and manipulated the typical UN bureaucracy to get it reviewed by three countries. Most other countries put forward their support (obviously) but made serious recommendations (stop torturing people, etc)

However the link above doesn't really go into details, rather just makes assumptions about the whole thing.

The Saint

I see nothing in that link or in the original OHCHR document that indicates that Gaddafi was receive an award from the UN. Can you post a source for this, original documents preferred?

Is mise le key

Was it before or after he tore up the UN charter, threw it at the chairman & named (rightly) the UN Security council the UN Terror council?

muammar gaddaffi wrote:

Now the Security Council is security feudalism, political feudalism for those who have permanent seats protected by them. And they are used against us.
It should not be called the Security Council. It should be called the " Terror Council. "

http://metaexistence.org/gaddafispeech.htm

mike65

Why do people quote crap from Loose Change type websites?

And expect to be taken seriously?

Check the solutions to the big bad world page

Jagle

The Saint wrote: »

I see nothing in that link or in the original OHCHR document that indicates that Gaddafi was receive an award from the UN. Can you post a source for this, original documents preferred?

No i cannot, came across it and decided to share what i found here because i havent seen it being discussed, and perhaps hoping someone else could prove/disprove

The Saint

Jagle wrote: »

No i cannot, came across it and decided to share what i found here because i havent seen it being discussed, and perhaps hoping someone else could prove/disprove

Some things are not worth being discussed. There is nothing in the OHCHR document stating anything like what is being asserted in the 'article'. I've googled it and found other odd websites stating the same thing, some more extensive than others. One cites the OHCHR document regarding all the great things Libya is doing for human rights. However, it omits to mention that these are the comments of the Libyan delegation about human rights in the country. I think these people don't understand what the Human Rights Council periodic review is.

Batsy

Gaddafi Was To Receive U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS AWARD

This does not surprise me about the corrupt UN. The UN is a great friend of any murderous dictator. That's why it was upset when Britain and the US rightly ousted Madman Hussein.

The Saint

Batsy wrote: »

This does not surprise me about the corrupt UN. The UN is a great friend of any murderous dictator. That's why it was upset when Britain and the US rightly ousted Madman Hussein.

Jesus, why don't you look at the post above yours and look into it yourself. There is no evidence to back this up as far as I can see, and certainly not from the evidence presented. :rolleyes:

Batsy

So the UN wanted to give a Human Rights Award to a man who:

1) Made 10 to 20 percent of Libyans work in surveillance for his Revolutionary Committees, a proportion of informants on par with Saddam Hussein's Iraq or Kim Jong Il's North Korea;

2) Made political conversation with foreigners illegal and punishable by three years' imprisonment;

3) Ran prisons with little or no documentation of the inmate population or of such basic data as prisoner's crime and sentence;

4) Made Libya the most censored country in the Middle East and North Africa, accoring to the Freedom of the Press Index;

5) And allowed his security forces to use torture against rebels after the rebellion hit north west Libya during the recent conflict.

Batsy

The Saint wrote: »

Jesus, why don't you look at the post above yours and look into it yourself. There is no evidence to back this up as far as I can see, and certainly not from the evidence presented. :rolleyes:

The fact that the UN was planning on given a Human Rights Award to GADDAFI is all the evidence you need.

The UN is a corrupt organisation which supports murderous dictators despite the fact it was created after WWII to prevent countries being run by Hitler-esque dictators ever again.

The Saint

Batsy wrote: »

So the UN wanted to give a Human Rights Award to a man who:

1) Made 10 to 20 percent of Libyans work in surveillance for his Revolutionary Committees, a proportion of informants on par with Saddam Hussein's Iraq or Kim Jong Il's North Korea;

2) Made political conversation with foreigners illegal and punishable by three years' imprisonment;

3) Ran prisons with little or no documentation of the inmate population or of such basic data as prisoner's crime and sentence;

4) Made Libya the most censored country in the Middle East and North Africa, accoring to the Freedom of the Press Index;

5) And allowed his security forces to use torture against rebels after the rebellion hit north west Libya during the recent conflict.

Is there some sort of comprehension issue at play here?

Once again, there is nothing in the source that was provided or in the OHCHR document mentioning anything about giving Gaddafi a UN human rights award.

Jesus Christ. Is it that difficult to understand?

The Saint

Batsy wrote: »

The fact that the UN was planning on given a Human Rights Award to GADDAFI is all the evidence you need.

The UN is a corrupt organisation which supports murderous dictators despite the fact it was created after WWII to prevent countries being run by Hitler-esque dictators ever again.

Jesus wept. :rolleyes:

Is mise le key

There appears to be very clear run up of events that caused the american, british & french to fire up the revolution in libya, one would have to delve a little deeper but with so many former regime figures having defected to the 'NTC' during the conflict it would appear that there was a corrupt element in the heirarchy of libya's regime & gaddaffi was going to weed them out, to what level the yanks, brits & french had their people in their we dont know but it seems very clear that the control of the oil was going to be overhauled & the wealth given to the libyan people, cant be having that now,

---

On 4 March 2008, Gaddafi announced his proposal to dissolve the country's existing administrative structure and disburse oil revenue directly to the people. The plan included abolishing all ministries; except those of defence, internal security, and foreign affairs, and departments implementing strategic projects. His reason for this plan was because he believed that the ministries were failing to manage the country’s oil revenues. Gaddafi claimed he was planning to combat corruption in the state by proposing reforms where oil profits are handed out directly to the country's five million people rather than to government bodies, stating that "as long as money is administered by a government body, there would be theft and corruption." Gaddafi urged a sweeping reform of the government bureaucracy, suggesting that most of the cabinet system should be dismantled to "free Libyans from red tape" and "protect the state's budget from corruption." According to Western diplomats, this move appeared to be aimed at putting pressure on the government to speed up reforms. Gaddafi claimed that the ministries were failing to manage the country’s oil revenues, and that his "dream during all these years was to give power and wealth directly to the people."

A national vote on Gaddafi's plan to disband the government and give oil money directly to the people was held in 2009, where Libya's people's congresses, the country's highest authority, voted to delay implementation. The General People's Congress announced that, out of 468 Basic People's Congresses, 64 chose immediate implementation while 251 endorsed implementation "but asked for (it) to be delayed until appropriate measures were put in place." This plan led to dissent from top government officials, who claimed it would "wreak havoc" in the economy by "fanning inflation and spurring capital flight." Gaddafi acknowledged that the scheme, which promised up to 30,000 Libyan dinars ($23,000) annually to about a million of Libya's poorest, may "cause chaos before it brought about prosperity," but claimed that "Do not be afraid to experiment with a new form of government" and that "This plan is to offer a better future for Libya's children."

Mahmoud Jibril, a former Jamahiriya member who later formed the National Transitional Council, was opposed to Gaddafi's Wealth Redistribution Project where oil revenues would be distributed directly to the Libyan people, an idea that Jibril described as “crazy” in 2010.

In December 2009, Gaddafi personally told government officials that Libya would soon experience a "new political period" and would have elections for important positions such as minister-level roles and the National Security Advisor position (a Prime Minister equivalent). He also promised to include international monitors to ensure fair elections. His speech was said to have caused quite a stir. These elections were planned to coincide with the Jamahiriya's usual periodic elections for members of the Popular Committees, Basic People's Committees, Basic People's Congresses, and General People's Congress, in 2010.

Jonny7

Is mise le key wrote: »

There appears to be very clear run up of events that caused the american, british & french to fire up the revolution in libya, one would have to delve a little deeper but with so many former regime figures having defected to the 'NTC' during the conflict it would appear that there was a corrupt element in the heirarchy of libya's regime & gaddaffi was going to weed them out, to what level the yanks, brits & french had their people in their we dont know but it seems very clear that the control of the oil was going to be overhauled & the wealth given to the libyan people, cant be having that now,

The American, British and French did not fire up the Libyan uprising starting in mid-Feb, if you have information to the contrary please enlighten us, and give sources (no nutjob sites or Iranian propaganda please)

The Outside Agency

Jonny7 wrote:

The American, British and French did not fire up the Libyan uprising starting in mid-Feb, if you have information to the contrary please enlighten us, and give sources (no nutjob sites or Iranian propaganda please)

There's plenty of evidence it was planned in advance.

The initial NTC Minister for Finance and Oil was Ali Tarhouni, a professor of Washington State University.

Current minister is now Abdurrahim El-Keib

Both people have dual-citizenship: Libya/US

theTinker

thanks for that information Is mise le key

Its quite interesting to hear gaddaffis thoughts on these things. I keep hearing things like this the more i read. Really fantastic and wildly new ways of thinking.
However, The guy seems completely crazy on the other hand. He must be one of the most dual extremes ive ever seen. I love his stances on education, medical care, and his beliefs to improve his peoples wellfare.
And yet, he seems to have committed absolutely disgusting acts at the same time.

I believe in the past, he was even more evil/vile. Then underwent some kind of change so dramatically that the UK and US began talks with him again and were even getting on well enough. Im sure his massive oil reserves had alot to play in this! but he seemed diplomatic enough to not warrant death at that time. Then it seems his change began to alternate depending on his mood.

Truely odd.

I cant believe for a minute though that this wasnt all about oil. I even think it might be a master plan by the US to keep invadin countries in the middle east now. We must be at about 4-5 in the last few years?

AlekSmart

It's quite odd in many ways to read through The Human Rights Council document on its review of Libya's Human Rights situation...

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

What I find more interesting is the signatory list to the NGO's letter which was the basis for the 1973 resolution process being set in train.

1. Hillel C. Neuer, United Nations Watch, Switzerland
2. Dr. Sliman Bouchuiguir, Libyan League for Human Rights, Switzerland
3. Mary Kay Stratis, Victims of Pan Am Flight 103, Inc., USA
4. Carl Gershman, President, The National Endowment for Democracy, USA
5. Yang Jianli, Initiatives for China, USA - Former prisoner of conscience and survivor of Tiananmen Square massacre
6. Yang Kuanxing, YIbao - Chinese writer, original signatory to Charter 08, the manifesto calling for political reform in China
7. Matteo Mecacci, MP, Nonviolent Radical Party, Italy
8. Frank Donaghue, Physicians for Human Rights, USA
9. Nazanin Afshin-Jam, Stop Child Executions, Canada
10. Bhawani Shanker Kusum, Gram Bharati Samiti, India
11. G. Jasper Cummeh, III, Actions for Genuine Democratic Alternatives, Liberia
12. Michel Monod, International Fellowship of Reconciliation, Switzerland
13. Esohe Aghatise, Associazione Iroko Onlus, Italy
14. Harris O. Schoenberg, UN Reform Advocates, USA
15. Myrna Lachenal, World Federation for Mental Health, Switzerland
16. Nguyên Lê Nhân Quyên, Vietnamese League for Human Rights, Switzerland
17. Sylvia G. Iriondo, Mothers and Women against Repression (M.A.R. Por Cuba), USA
18. David Littman, World Union for Progressive Judaism, Switzerland
19. Barrister Festus Okoye, Human Rights Monitor, Nigeria
20. Theodor Rathgeber, Forum Human Rights, Germany
21. Derik Uya Alfred, Kwoto Cultural Center, Juba – Southern Sudan
22. Carlos E Tinoco, Consorcio Desarrollo y Justicia, A.C., Venezuela
23. Abdurashid Abdulle Abikar, Center for Youth and Democracy, Somalia
24. Dr. Vanee Meisinger, Pan Pacific and South East Asia Women’s Association, Thailand
25. Simone Abel, René Cassin, United Kingdom
26. Dr. Francois Ullmann, Ingenieurs du Monde, Switzerland
27. Sr Catherine Waters, Catholic International Education Office, USA
28. Gibreil Hamid, Darfur Peace and Development Centre, Switzerland
29. Nino Sergi, INTERSOS – Humanitarian Aid Organization, Italy
30. Daniel Feng, Foundation for China in the 21st Century
31. Ann Buwalda, Executive Director, Jubilee Campaign, USA
32. Leo Igwe, Nigerian Humanist Movement, Nigeria
33. Chandika Gautam, Nepal International Consumers Union, Nepal
34. Zohra Yusuf, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Pakistan
35. Sekou Doumbia, Femmes & Droits Humains, Mali
36. Cyrille Rolande Bechon, Nouveaux Droits de l'Homme, Cameroon
37. Zainab Al-Suwaij, American Islamic Congress, USA
38. Valnora Edwin, Campaign for Good Governance, Sierra Leone
39. Patrick Mpedzisi, African Democracy Forum, South Africa
40. Phil ya Nangoloh, NamRights, Namibia
41. Jaime Vintimilla, Centro Sobre Derecho y Sociedad (CIDES), Ecuador
42. Tilder Kumichii Ndichia, Gender Empowerment and Development, Cameroon
43. Amina Bouayach, Moroccan Organisation for Human Rights, Morocco
44. Abdullahi Mohamoud Nur, CEPID-Horn Africa, Somalia
45. Delly Mawazo Sesete, Resarch Center on Environment, Democracy & Human Rights, DR Congo
46. Joseph Rahall, Green Scenery, Sierra Leone
47. Arnold Djuma, Solidarité pour la Promotion Sociale et la Paix, Rwanda
48. Panayote Dimitras, Greek Helsinki Monitor, Greece
49. Carlos E. Ponce, Latina American and Caribbean Network for Democracy, Venezuela
50. Fr. Paul Lansu, Pax Christi International, Belgium
51. Tharsika Pakeerathan, Swiss Council of Eelam Tamils, Switzerland
52. Ibrahima Niang, Commission des Droits Humains du Mouvement Citoyen, Senegal
53. Virginia Swain, Center for Global Community and World Law, USA
54. Dr Yael Danieli, International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies, USA
55. Savita Gokhale, Loksadhana, India
56. Hasan Dheeree, Biland Awdal Organization, Somalia
57. Pacifique Nininahazwe, Forum pour le Renforcement de la Société Civile, Burundi
58. Derik Uya Alfred, Kwoto Cultural Center, Southern Sudan
59. Michel Golubnichy, International Association of Peace Foundations, Russia
60. Edward Ladu Terso, Multi Media Training Center, Sudan
61. Hafiz Mohammed, Justice Africa Sudan, Sudan
62. Sammy Eppel, B'nai B’rith Human Rights Commission, Venezuela
63. Jack Jeffery, International Humanist and Ethical Union, United Kingdom
64. Duy Hoang, Viet Tan, Vietnam
65. Promotion de la Democratie et Protection des Droits Humains, DR Congo
66. Radwan A. Masmoudi, Center for the Study of Islam & Democracy, USA
67. María José Zamora Solórzano, Movimiento por Nicaragua, Nicaragua
68. John Suarez, Cuban Democratic Directorate, USA
69. Mohamed Abdul Malek, Libya Watch, United Kingdom
70. Journalists Union of Russia, Russia
71. Sindi Medar-Gould, BAOBAB for Women’s Human Rights, Nigeria
72. Derik Uya Alfred, Kwoto Cultural Centre, Sudan
73. Sr. Anne Shaym, Presentation Sisters, Australia
74. Joseph Rahad, Green Scenery, Sierra Leone
75. Fahma Yusuf Essa, Women in Journalism Association, Somalia
76. Hayder Ibrahim Ali, Sudanese Studies Center, Sudan
77. Marcel Claude Kabongo, Good Governance and Human Rights NGO, DR Congo
78. Frank Weston, International Multiracial Shared Cultural Organization (IMSCO), USA
79. Fatima Alaoui, Maghrebin Forum for environment and development, Morocco
80. Ted Brooks, Committee for Peace and Development Advocacy, Liberia
81. Felly Fwamba, Cerveau Chrétien, DR Congo
82. Jane Rutledge, CIVICUS: World Alliance of Citizen Participation, South Africa
83. Ali AlAhmed, The Institute for Gulf Affairs, USA
84. Daniel Ozoukou, Martin Luther King Center for Peace and Social Justice, Cote d'Ivoire
85. Dan T. Saryee, Liberia Democratic Institute (LDI), Liberia

Individuals
Dr. Frene Ginwala, former Speaker of the South African National Assembly
Philosopher Francis Fukuyama
Mohamed Eljahmi, Libyan human rights activist
Glenn P. Johnson, Jr., Treasurer, Victims of Pan Am Flight 103, Inc., father of Beth Ann Johnson, victim of Lockerbie bombing

I'm actually quite impressed that,firstly,a selection of NGO's can wield such strong influence upon the U.N. and also at the speed and depth of the U.N. response to this particular group.

Whilst I'm not a fan of webby outfits such as GRTV and assorted conspiracy theorists,I was quite taken by Mr Moreno-Ocampo's response to tyhe questioning Oriental Journalist and the heavily redacted document he referred to....

It's from 5:53 to 6:53 on this clip....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2zDY3jvcp44

In addition the pinpoint hi-tech nature of the U.N./NATO Air-Strike which resulted in Gadaffi's capture and assasination is very difficult to reconsile in any way with the stated "Civilian Protection" intent of 1973.

The news that the initial strike was launched from deep within the good ol USA after all,is equally instructive and confirmatory to my way of thinking.

Roll on The Hague sez I....:rolleyes:

Is mise le key

Jonny7 wrote: »

The American, British and French did not fire up the Libyan uprising starting in mid-Feb, if you have information to the contrary please enlighten us, and give sources (no nutjob sites or Iranian propaganda please)

Right, so how did the US & britain have its naval forces in so quick? They had moved into position a good period before feb.

theTinker wrote: »

I cant believe for a minute though that this wasnt all about oil. I even think it might be a master plan by the US to keep invadin countries in the middle east now. We must be at about 4-5 in the last few years?

Well the yanks are shaping up fairly large to threaten iran now, they purcahse quite a lot of oil from iran, so now with libya's oil on tap for them they can halt there supply from iran while they bomb the shít out of them & occupy yet another country & slaughter hundreds of thousand.

JustinDee

Is mise le key wrote: »

Right, so how did the US & britain have its naval forces in so quick?

They have base facilities in Malta, Cyprus, Greece (Athens & Crete), Spain and carriers regularly home south of Madeira and near Canary Islands. All are with NATO remit and agreements.

Russia would have done same had Libya not fallen (ie. set up base in Libyan waters), for example.

Is mise le key

JustinDee wrote: »

They have base facilities in Malta, Cyprus, Greece (Athens & Crete), Spain and carriers regularly home south of Madeira and near Canary Islands. All are with NATO remit and agreements.

Russia would have done same had Libya not fallen (ie. set up base in Libyan waters), for example.

Sorry, links,

http://www.voltairenet.org/Allied-forces-deployed-in-Libya

http://www.voltairenet.org/USA-UK-Discrepancies-between

Also, as you hear in the news now, berlusconi is gone despite italys debt problems being managable, yes it has a 1.9 trillion debt, but the debt to GDP ratio is very small, but berlusconi had to go, so the 'markets' soared their cost of borrowing,

http://www.voltairenet.org/Berlusconi-says-Libyans-love

JustinDee

Is mise le key wrote: »

Sorry, links

Meaning?
Its just common knowledge where they have naval and air-force base facilities. Not a secret at all.

Is mise le key wrote: »

http://www.voltairenet.org/Allied-forces-deployed-in-Libya

http://www.voltairenet.org/USA-UK-Discrepancies-between

Also, as you hear in the news now, berlusconi is gone despite italys debt problems being managable, yes it has a 1.9 trillion debt, but the debt to GDP ratio is very small, but berlusconi had to go, so the 'markets' soared their cost of borrowing,

http://www.voltairenet.org/Berlusconi-says-Libyans-love

A conspiracy-theory website???? Wrong forum, I'd say

Jonny7

nivekd wrote: »

There's plenty of evidence it was planned in advance.

The initial NTC Minister for Finance and Oil was Ali Tarhouni, a professor of Washington State University.

Current minister is now Abdurrahim El-Keib

Both people have dual-citizenship: Libya/US

Lets analyse this properly

According to your link Ali Tarhouni was "Born in Libya, Tarhouni studied economics at the University of Libya, until fleeing the country in 1973. He was stripped of citizenship, sentenced to death in absentia, and put on a government hit list in 1981".

I have read through the page, looked him up, apart from him having dual citizenship where is the evidence that this was pre-planned by US/Britain/France?

Jonny7

Is mise le key wrote: »

Sorry, links,

http://www.voltairenet.org/Allied-forces-deployed-in-Libya

http://www.voltairenet.org/USA-UK-Discrepancies-between

Also, as you hear in the news now, berlusconi is gone despite italys debt problems being managable, yes it has a 1.9 trillion debt, but the debt to GDP ratio is very small, but berlusconi had to go, so the 'markets' soared their cost of borrowing,

http://www.voltairenet.org/Berlusconi-says-Libyans-love

That is a conspiracy theory site.

Is mise le key

JustinDee wrote: »

Meaning?
Its just common knowledge where they have naval and air-force base facilities. Not a secret at all.


A conspiracy-theory website???? Wrong forum, I'd say

Why did you split my post into two when quoting?

If you are asking me to provide a link from BBC, SKY etc supporting the statement that america, britain & france fired up the war in libya then i am sorry you are going to be disspointed.

Did you read the articles?

Why would Italys Bonds go up to the same price as ours did when their debt to GDP is completley managable?

Italy doesnt fit the case of a country that needs a bailout at all.

Back on libya, I posted this in the past on here, i know a guy personally who lived & worked in libya all through the 70's into the 80's, he worked in Triploli, Benghazi, Misrata & Sirte, he said that it was a peaceful & good place to live, he did say that it was common knowledge that gaddaffi was ruthless against his enemies alright but not to beleive a word from the yanks or brits that he was just ruthless indiscriminatley.

He went on to say that the place became somewhere you didnt want to live in the mid 80's once the yanks had bombed Tripoli & began interfering on the ground.

Jonny7

Is mise le key wrote: »

Well the yanks are shaping up fairly large to threaten iran now, they purcahse quite a lot of oil from iran, so now with libya's oil on tap for them they can halt there supply from iran while they bomb the shít out of them & occupy yet another country & slaughter hundreds of thousand.

They purchase a lot of oil from Iran? really?

I thought they stopped in 1979 :rolleyes:

Clearpreso

This American General seems to describe it as being part of the plan, this was recorded in 2007, and I guess has done the rounds, it's pretty interesting though given what's happened in the years following him saying all that.

(Sorry for bringing this even more off topic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE

Is mise le key

Jonny7 wrote: »

They purchase a lot of oil from Iran? really?

I thought they stopped in 1979 :rolleyes:

So you are saying that the worlds second largest oil producer's oil doesnt end up in america!!!

Come on please, america buys oil from many nations all over the world, a lot of which originates in iran, i mean the yanks even bought oil from us in 2011,

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

Jonny7

Is mise le key wrote: »

So you are saying that the worlds second largest oil producer's oil doesnt end up in america!!!

Come on please, america buys oil from many nations all over the world, a lot of which originates in iran, i mean the yanks even bought oil from us in 2011,

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

Its not the world's second largest oil producer either.

Don't "come on please", get your facts straight.

Is mise le key

Jonny7 wrote: »

Its not the world's second largest oil producer either.

Don't "come on please", get your facts straight.

Well, i dont have it for you from the BBC but wikipedia are fairly tight with there moderating,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Iranian_Oil_Company

"NIOC ranks as the world's second largest oil company, after Saudi Arabia's state-owned Aramco"

This is getting tedious, the us imported up to august this year alone,

8,824,937,000 barrels of oil.

Thats,

1,764,987,400,000 litres of oil.

JustinDee

Is mise le key wrote: »

Why did you split my post into two when quoting?

You mean like this?

Is mise le key wrote: »

If you are asking me to provide a link from BBC, SKY etc supporting the statement that america, britain & france fired up the war in libya then i am sorry you are going to be disspointed.

Did you read the articles?

Why would Italys Bonds go up to the same price as ours did when their debt to GDP is completley managable?

Italy doesnt fit the case of a country that needs a bailout at all.

Back on libya, I posted this in the past on here, i know a guy personally who lived & worked in libya all through the 70's into the 80's, he worked in Triploli, Benghazi, Misrata & Sirte, he said that it was a peaceful & good place to live, he did say that it was common knowledge that gaddaffi was ruthless against his enemies alright but not to beleive a word from the yanks or brits that he was just ruthless indiscriminatley.

He went on to say that the place became somewhere you didnt want to live in the mid 80's once the yanks had bombed Tripoli & began interfering on the ground.

I read the pieces you linked. Its a conspiracy theory site that is known for its alarmist speculation and warped venn theories, so excuse anyone for actually taking a step back upon reading.

I actually just pointed out how deployment takes place so quickly anywhere in the Mediterranean or East Atlantic. A simple answer to a simple question. I gave the plain version. Not the Oliver Stone black-and-white-scene explanation, which as you know doesn't really wash in this forum.

Jonny7

Is mise le key wrote: »

Well, i dont have it for you from the BBC but wikipedia are fairly tight with there moderating,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Iranian_Oil_Company

"NIOC ranks as the world's second largest oil company, after Saudi Arabia's state-owned Aramco"

I was clearly referring to Iran, which is not the world's second largest producer of oil.

The US does not buy oil from Iran.

Which makes this...

Well the yanks are shaping up fairly large to threaten iran now, they purcahse quite a lot of oil from iran, so now with libya's oil on tap for them they can halt there supply from iran

False

AlekSmart

Clearpreso wrote: »

This American General seems to describe it as being part of the plan, this was recorded in 2007, and I guess has done the rounds, it's pretty interesting though given what's happened in the years following him saying all that.

(Sorry for bringing this even more off topic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE

A most interesting clip sure nuff.....but,still worth hearing what a US Army "Big Hitter" has to say in relation to what sort of stuff goes on at the top end.

But at least we have Wes to thank for James Blunt !!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11753050

mccandless

qadafi was a man of honour. if you read some of his speeches, then you would see why he was elected for a human rights award. however, in this upside down world we live in, guys like obama get nobel peace prizes, while noble people like qadafi get assasinated. i guess it's true what they say. nice guys finish last.

Is mise le key

mccandless wrote: »

qadafi was a man of honour. if you read some of his speeches, then you would see why he was elected for a human rights award. however, in this upside down world we live in, guys like obama get nobel peace prizes, while noble people like qadafi get assasinated. i guess it's true what they say. nice guys finish last.

I posted a while back also, it seems to be lost on most, he consistently said he would not leave libya & would fight to the end, he did exactly that & even at the end knowing full well what he would face at the hands of the 'rebels' he didnt turn the gun on himself.

The lack of integrity the 'NTC' showed by not respecting his final wishes in his will distinguishes them.

It really disgusts me the traitors to the libyan people that have facilitated NATO/USA/BRITAIN/FRENCH in stealing libya's wealth, whatever gaddaffis wrongs, these guys have sentenced libya to hell.

humanji

mccandless wrote: »

qadafi was a man of honour. if you read some of his speeches, then you would see why he was elected for a human rights award. however, in this upside down world we live in, guys like obama get nobel peace prizes, while noble people like qadafi get assasinated. i guess it's true what they say. nice guys finish last.

Ah come on. He wasn't a benevolent god. He was as corrupt as any world leader and commited about as many crimes against humanity as those you claim are the bad guys. Why you hold him up as some sort of shining light is beyond reason.

SamHarris

humanji wrote: »

Ah come on. He wasn't a benevolent god. He was as corrupt as any world leader and commited about as many crimes against humanity as those you claim are the bad guys. Why you hold him up as some sort of shining light is beyond reason.

He does it because of who Gadaffi opposed, that is to say the West and the US not because of any real benevolence on Gadaffis part. Its all par for course for a certain type of person. See Che or Iran for further examples.

This prize is much more an indication of the politicisation and ridiculousness of the UN "human rights" quarter than of anything Gadaffi did. Some of its esteemed members include Iran, Zimbabwe and China.

This is the same organistation that refused to censor Sudan during a genocide because Arabs felt it was their duty to protect their own from criticism.

Also, Is Mise, Italys debt may have been managable but it certainly was not low as a % of GDP. It was about twice that of the US. You also show a fundamental misunderstanding of what the markets are. They are nto a shadow cabal of elites who make political descision, they are a measure of supply and demand. Nothing more.

SamHarris

Is mise le key wrote: »

So you are saying that the worlds second largest oil producer's oil doesnt end up in america!!!

Come on please, america buys oil from many nations all over the world, a lot of which originates in iran, i mean the yanks even bought oil from us in 2011,

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

No they do not buy oil from Iran. Also Iran is not the second biggest oil producer, I believe Canada is after Saudi Arabia.

Conspiracy theorists are aware that other places beside the US need oil, yes? And that the existance of oil does not mean everything that happens to that country or inside it is a conspiracy by the evil americans to get it?

SamHarris

Just to point out the US also didnt buy Libyan oil.

AlekSmart

SamHarris wrote: »

Just to point out the US also didnt buy Libyan oil.

Not quite the situation Sam....

http://www.eia.gov/cabs/libya/Full.html

Exports
With domestic consumption estimated around 270,000 bbl/d in 2010, Libya’s net exports (including all liquids) were slightly over 1.5 million bbl/d. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA) the vast majority (around 85 percent) of Libyan oil exports are sold to European countries namely Italy, Germany, France, and Spain. With the lifting of sanctions against Libya in 2004, the United States has increased its imports of Libyan oil. According to EIA January through November estimates, the United States imported an average of 71,000bbl/d from Libya in 2010 (of which, 44,000 bbl/d was crude), up from 56,000 bbl/d in 2005 but a decline from 2007 highs of 117,000 bbl/d.

It's never quite as clear as portrayed,and that I fear is the essence of this debate.

Humanji:Ah come on. He wasn't a benevolent god. He was as corrupt as any world leader and commited about as many crimes against humanity as those you claim are the bad guys. Why you hold him up as some sort of shining light is beyond reason.

I'm only speaking for myself here,but I don't for a moment pretend that Muammar Gadaffi was any "shining light" of benign democratic ruler.

However,as mise le key alludes to,I believe Col Gadaffi's committment to Libya was of a far higher and genuine level than his many detractors (particularly western ones) now portray.

To have kept a vast tribal centred,essentially arid,barren land and it's c.6 million people off the African Poverty wagon for 40 years took,I humbly suggest,a smidgin more than mere lunacy.

It would appear that Gadaffi and/or his son Saif al Islam,was proceeding apace with no small amount of "reforms" to Social,Commercial and Financial elements of Libyan society,much of which has gone unreported in our world.

http://www.africaneconomicoutlook.org/en/countries/north-africa/libya/

Whatever other deprivations Libyan's encountered,starvation and death due to drought were not amongst them,whilst yet being boundaried by countries where significant numbers regularly perished from such disasters as well as the other rampant diseases which fulfill our Western perceptions of what an African country SHOULD resemble.

I tend to find it somewhat blasé when I read of people living in our society pooh-poohing projects such as the Great Man-Made River Project or Gadaffi's attempts to "settle" large numbers of his staunchly nomadic population...It's almost as if the notion of a stable supply of drinking water being supplied to desert dwellers was unimportant...?

With Libya now well down the scale of Western Media interest,we will hear less and less of how the "Ordinary" Libyan is faring out.....Having ousted Gadaffi,our thirst is slated and we can move on to ......what....where...who....?

Perhaps Wesley Clarks 2007 "Hit-List" merits closer study now,after the Libyan adventure has played out ?

Brown Bomber

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's quite odd in many ways to read through The Human Rights Council document on its review of Libya's Human Rights situation...

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

The comments from Qatar are most interesting of all, Qatar, who had jets bombing Libya, and even troops on the ground
Qatar, who sold the lies on Libya through the state-owned Al-Jazeera who broke the lies of Gadaffi mobilising his airforce against protestors and the viagra-rape tales.

30. Qatar praised the legal framework for the protection of human rights and freedoms,
including, inter alia, its criminal code and criminal procedure law, which provided legal
guarantees for the implementation of those rights. Qatar expressed appreciation for the
improvements made in the areas of education and health care, the rights of women, children
and the elderly, and the situation of people with special needs. Qatar inquired about
measures to tackle illegal immigration. Qatar made a recommendation.

AlekSmart wrote: »

What I find more interesting is the signatory list to the NGO's letter which was the basis for the 1973 resolution process being set in train...Philosopher Francis Fukuyama

Curiously Fukuyama profitted from a multimillion dollar contract doing PR work for the Gadaffis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/04/monitor-group-us-libya-gaddafi

Brown Bomber

QATAR wrote:

Qatar inquired about
measures to tackle illegal immigration. Qatar made a recommendation.

I wonder if the recommendation involved pumping out false anti-black propoganda about black mercenaries with their state owned news channel and putting automatic weapons into the hands of Al Qaeda affiliated mobs to ethnically cleanse black people from their villages, to cut off their heads, lynch them and hang them KKK style, pull them from hospital beds and hang them. That's one way of tackling illegal immigration.