Athletics Clubs and Training Rules

seanynova

Hi,

i have been looking to join a club since i finished my marathon training as im hoping to get quicker over shorter distances.
however, clubs seem few and far between over here even though there as lots of running groups(more for beginers though)

so i was in contact with a coach recenty (i got his details through the local provincial athletics organisation).
has the following athlets on the go at the moment:
1. a girl (a 2:58 marathoner) going to national x-country -->peak for Manitoba marathon in mid June
2. a girl ( 17:30 5000 m runner) going to national x-country and one guy--> peak for 5000 at senior nationals at end of June
3. a guy (a 70:45 1/2 marathoner) --> peaking for an October marathon (possibly Toronto) with a 5000 in Feb a 10 000 in April, 1/2 marathon in June and a longer race in Aug
4. high school group peaking for 800/1500 beginning of June to beginning of July and one for national juniors at end of July
5. high school group peaking for 400/800 beginning of June to beginning of July

i gave him my running history, PB's progression etc and told him my plan for next year.

he has since emailed me back outlining some rules(the rules were set out as part of en email not bullet point/numberes as below):
1. You would race a lot less (no more than once a month)
2. You would race the provincial 5 km road race next May (if it's still part of the racing schedule), possibly a 5 km on the track and the provincial 10km road race in Sept. and quite possibly the national cross-country championships at the end of November
3. You would fit in with the program for one of my girls peaking for 5 km at end of June; I also have another fairly competent male runner who is getting back into training after having sat out a long time due to injury and who will be concentrating on the 5 km
4. You have to follow the training I prescribe.


i have absolutly no experience training with a club, but i do feel it would be benificial esp for the shorter races.

are there any questions i should be asking the coach? i will ask him his basic philosophy on training but anything else?
are his rules outlined about normal for running clubs?
im a big fan of daniles and have been reading over tegrats poats recently also and agree with much of that.

thanks for the advice,
Seany

BeepBeep67

Do the 'rules' fit with your plan or his plan?
Coaching and getting coached needs to be a 2 way street!

seanynova

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Do the 'rules' fit with your plan or his plan?
Coaching and getting coached needs to be a 2 way street!

regarding the racing, i was going to race more 5k's as there is a spring series here, 3x 5ks on 3 consectutive sundays....last one is 5weeks out from my goal race.
im actually not a big fan of racing a lot myself but as they are 'only' (i say that loosly as i have no idea what they intail) 5k's, i figure i could race more. i was also planning of running a 10k 2weeks out of my goal race...ala Jack Daniels phase 4 - race or session on sundays.

At the monent i dont know what training he prescribes.....once its follows the normal basic forat then if should be fine, tempo is tempo, intervals are intervals etc.....distance, recovery may vary but thats fine.

maybe it will be benificial for me as he talks about racing less for injury prevention/overall progression(due to recovery times) and training on grass for injury prevention also.

my options are limited however when it comes to club running.

ecoli

seanynova wrote: »

Hi,

i have been looking to join a club since i finished my marathon training as im hoping to get quicker over shorter distances.
however, clubs seem few and far between over here even though there as lots of running groups(more for beginers though)

so i was in contact with a coach recenty (i got his details through the local provincial athletics organisation).
has the following athlets on the go at the moment:
1. a girl (a 2:58 marathoner) going to national x-country -->peak for Manitoba marathon in mid June
2. a girl ( 17:30 5000 m runner) going to national x-country and one guy--> peak for 5000 at senior nationals at end of June
3. a guy (a 70:45 1/2 marathoner) --> peaking for an October marathon (possibly Toronto) with a 5000 in Feb a 10 000 in April, 1/2 marathon in June and a longer race in Aug
4. high school group peaking for 800/1500 beginning of June to beginning of July and one for national juniors at end of July
5. high school group peaking for 400/800 beginning of June to beginning of July

i gave him my running history, PB's progression etc and told him my plan for next year.

he has since emailed me back outlining some rules(the rules were set out as part of en email not bullet point/numberes as below):
1. You would race a lot less (no more than once a month)
2. You would race the provincial 5 km road race next May (if it's still part of the racing schedule), possibly a 5 km on the track and the provincial 10km road race in Sept. and quite possibly the national cross-country championships at the end of November
3. You would fit in with the program for one of my girls peaking for 5 km at end of June; I also have another fairly competent male runner who is getting back into training after having sat out a long time due to injury and who will be concentrating on the 5 km
4. You have to follow the training I prescribe.


i have absolutly no experience training with a club, but i do feel it would be benificial esp for the shorter races.

are there any questions i should be asking the coach? i will ask him his basic philosophy on training but anything else?
are his rules outlined about normal for running clubs?
im a big fan of daniles and have been reading over tegrats poats recently also and agree with much of that.

thanks for the advice,
Seany

Sounds to me like the "club rules" are simply to adhere with his coaching philosophies. Sticking to training is an obvious one as well as goal races (although usually a coach will ask an athlete this rather than coach telling you what are goal races), racing less would be down to his training philosophy.

In terms of questions for him?

Given you are Daniels fan most important one would be coaching influences to determine whether it suits with the approach you have found beneficial.

Another one would be progression of some of his athletes? Seems to have a good range of athletes which is a really good sign but how long have they been with him. Can be a case of athletes being very good and not improving too much under him?

Another one I would look to (especially if you are injury prone) is whether or not there is a high rate of injury within his athletes?

To me it sounds like a very good group with a wide range of athletes and could help you big time but never hurts to get as much info as possible before making the decision

Over there coaching can be very much my way in terms of coaches so its important to find a system which suits you as opposed to trying to change it once under it you may find many coaches less accomodating than you would over here (especially as he seems to deal with a HS system)

seanynova

ecoli wrote: »

Sounds to me like the "club rules" are simply to adhere with his coaching philosophies. Sticking to training is an obvious one as well as goal races (although usually a coach will ask an athlete this rather than coach telling you what are goal races), racing less would be down to his training philosophy.

In terms of questions for him?

Given you are Daniels fan most important one would be coaching influences to determine whether it suits with the approach you have found beneficial.

Another one would be progression of some of his athletes? Seems to have a good range of athletes which is a really good sign but how long have they been with him. Can be a case of athletes being very good and not improving too much under him?

Another one I would look to (especially if you are injury prone) is whether or not there is a high rate of injury within his athletes?

To me it sounds like a very good group with a wide range of athletes and could help you big time but never hurts to get as much info as possible before making the decision

Over there coaching can be very much my way in terms of coaches so its important to find a system which suits you as opposed to trying to change it once under it you may find many coaches less accomodating than you would over here (especially as he seems to deal with a HS system)

the 5k and 10k races i told him i was targetting, the 2 possible races outlined above he proposed.

as regards to his athlets here is was he said, i removed the ages as i didnt think it was necessary....sorry about that.
1. for one of my girls (a 2:58 marathoner in her mid-20's) going to national x-country -->peak for Manitoba marathon in mid June
2. for another one of my girls ( 17:30 5000 m runner in her late 20's) going to national x-country and one guy in his late 20's--> peak for 5000 at senior nationals at end of June
3. for one of my guys (a 70:45 1/2 marathoner in his early 20's) --> peaking for an October marathon (possibly Toronto) with a 5000 in Feb a 10 000 in April, 1/2 marathon in June and a longer race in Aug
4. high school group peaking for 800/1500 beginning of June to beginning of July and one for national juniors at end of July
5. high school group peaking for 400/800 beginning of June to beginning of July


the club is named after the high school, and from what i gather he is a teacher there also.
looking at the age profiles about, im assuming his athletes have stayed with him since leaving HS but im not sure.
i might look over the reults data of track meets to see where he athletes finish, number of entrants etc...just to get an idea of the standard.

but the big one is the training philosophy i guess.
questions like, training methods, emphisis on mileage/Q sessions, strength/speed, traditional/radical, number of session/week etc.

thirstywork2

seems very strange to be honest and that you will help his other runner out.
Did he ask you what your goals are?
Very few top coaches I know will harp on about who they coach eg tell you what pb's they have ect.
you have to get on with your coach and be able to be 100% honest.

seanynova

thirstywork2 wrote: »

seems very strange to be honest and that you will help his other runner out.
Did he ask you what your goals are?
Very few top coaches I know will harp on about who they coach eg tell you what pb's they have ect.
you have to get on with your coach and be able to be 100% honest.

i contacted him outlining my plans for next year, and that if it possible to train with his group.
his reposnse was outlining his training plans for next year (ie the athletes and PB's) as above and he asked me if i think i could work with such groups.
i then gave him my running history etc, and plans again.
his last response was regarding training 'rules' as above.

its a intereting point about benifactors and maybe my ability might help his 17:30 5k or 2:58 marathon girls out, but there also seems to be people in the group i could benifit from, although the 70:45 half guy is a bit ahead and possibly his other 5k athlete....im assuming he is quick....but training partners as trtaining partners and might help.

your honesty statement, is that based on him using me to help he other athletes? do you think thats a concern for my sake, that ill benifet from the group less?

Gringo78

Is the idea that you will actually be able to do sessions with the other runners? If so, would be good. The 17:30 girl would also add in that extra 'don't wanna be chicked' factor which would spur you on. Nothing to load by giving his philosophy a go for 6 months.

The 3 5k's in 3 weeks doesn't strike me as a good idea anyways....the race will be at the expense of better training. I raced quite a few 5k's last may/June and I got no benefit out of it....I thought I was fine tuning race tactics but I did nothing more than run the same time week in week out.

seanynova

Gringo78 wrote: »

Is the idea that you will actually be able to do sessions with the other runners? If so, would be good. The 17:30 girl would also add in that extra 'don't wanna be chicked' factor which would spur you on. Nothing to load by giving his philosophy a go for 6 months.

The 3 5k's in 3 weeks doesn't strike me as a good idea anyways....the race will be at the expense of better training. I raced quite a few 5k's last may/June and I got no benefit out of it....I thought I was fine tuning race tactics but I did nothing more than run the same time week in week out.

doing sessions with other runners is prob the main factor initially, as i say there are a few training groups here but not in the same time frame as im looking for. there is one other group which trains regualary but id be the 2nd quickest there. it seams in this province the standard is much lower than the rest of canada so finding suitable groups is hard.

the 17:30 girl would be faster then me at the moment by a good bit so working with here might be benificial, at least for the 1st few weeks/months...hopefully ill be able to kick on and race a faster 5k...maybe she will too!

you might be right about the 5k races, i was going to use them as trial runs for strategy, but maybe focusing on training would be a better use of time.

seanynova

Found these regarding the coach…

Coach in question coached this girl in school:
http://www.msnsportsnet.com/profile.cfm?sport=wcc&id=101652
She came 6th a Penn State meet this year, and is on team Tri Canada:
http://triathloncanada.com/page.ch2?uid=SarahAnneBrault


he is also mentioned in this article about track and field in Canada re Olympics:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0008078

his 2:58 woman marathoner was a winner also:
http://www.providencecollege.ca/athletics/news_and_events/news_releases/index.cfm?newsid=374



anything to go by???

cfitz

I'm a bit surprised by the suspicion of the people on here. Do you have to pay this guy? Assuming you don't, and assuming you haven't found any other suitable coaches, I'd suggest get him to send you a sample schedule of some sort and unless it looks insane, take him on and see how things go.

Regarding the Daniels bit - either you want to be coached or you want to coach yourself. If you want to be coached, pick your coach based on the results rather than the philosophy that you imagine to be best in your own head.

seanynova

cfitz wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised by the suspicion of the people on here. Do you have to pay this guy? Assuming you don't, and assuming you haven't found any other suitable coaches, I'd suggest get him to send you a sample schedule of some sort and unless it looks insane, take him on and see how things go.

Regarding the Daniels bit - either you want to be coached or you want to coach yourself. If you want to be coached, pick your coach based on the results rather than the philosophy that you imagine to be best in your own head.

not sure what the club fees are but im sure there will be costs, same as all clubs though id imagine.
when you say results based coaching, as ive never been coached its a bit of a gamble, but his credentials are good, he was involved in the coaching of long distance canadian athletes in the 80s apparantly(?).

i've asked to meet him anyway, and sure i can see typically what his plans are then i suppose.

TFBubendorfer

cfitz wrote: »

Regarding the Daniels bit - either you want to be coached or you want to coach yourself. If you want to be coached, pick your coach based on the results rather than the philosophy that you imagine to be best in your own head.

I have to disagree here. If a runner believes in a certain training system, he/she will have a hard time trusting a coach that subscribes to a completely different training philosophy.

I was only coached once, so have very limited experience. But my coach was an expert in the training system I preferred, and as a result I was able to fully put my trust in him.