Van and Cow trailer

Mr.Success

Should a berlingo/partner vans be used for pulling cow trailers.

CiniO

Mr.Success wrote: »

Should a berlingo/partner vans be used for pulling cow trailers.

It depends what is the weight of the cow trailer?

Mr.Success

You know the standard 8 x 4 ones that would hold 2 400kg cattle

-Corkie-

Mr.Success wrote: »

You know the standard 8 x 4 ones that would hold 2 400kg cattle

Nope a 4x4 should be used for that..

CiniO

-Corkie- wrote: »

Nope a 4x4 should be used for that..

It depends which year and engine version of berlingo is it, but from what i've found some of them can pull up to 1300kg trailer.

4x8 loaded with 2x400kg should easily be below 1300kg.

Even if not, a bigger van like transit, usually can tow up to 3500kg trailers, so I can't see a reason for 4x4. Is there any relation between type of drive (4x4, fwd rwd) and towing trailers? I can't see any relation tbh.

polod

-Corkie- wrote: »

Nope a 4x4 should be used for that..

Not at all....i once pulled 1500kg of fertiliser with a 1.9tdi passat was no bother it ....ya have to think ahead when driving ya dont want to end up stopped up on a hill

OP it would pull it nope bother with just one cow or two weanlings to be on the safe side

corglass

Mr.Success wrote: »

You know the standard 8 x 4 ones that would hold 2 400kg cattle

If the 8x4 trailer is a double axel one, then legally the towing vehicle must be a 4x4.

CiniO

corglass wrote: »

If the 8x4 trailer is a double axel one, then legally the towing vehicle must be a 4x4.

Nonsense.
If you really believe it's true, please quote any relevant legislation.

CiniO

polod wrote: »

Not at all....i once pulled 1500kg of fertiliser with a 1.9tdi passat was no bother it ....ya have to think ahead when driving ya dont want to end up stopped up on a hill

OP it would pull it nope bother with just one cow or two weanlings to be on the safe side

Every vehicle should have a maximum trailer weight which it can tow stated on a information plate.

Like this is mine Mazda 6.



You can see here, that GVW (gross vehicle weight) is 1840kg.
3340 is the max weight of vehicle and trailer.

It means, that I can tow a trailer up to 1500kg with that car.

BrianD3

CiniO wrote: »

It depends which year and engine version of berlingo is it, but from what i've found some of them can pull up to 1300kg trailer.

4x8 loaded with 2x400kg should easily be below 1300kg.

Dunno about that, if it's a proper livestock trailer its unladen weight could be quite heavy. Eg the 8 x 4 Ifor Williams on this page is 610 kg
http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/livestock/ta5?tab=spec

+1 about not needing a 4x4 though. The weight is what matters.

-Corkie-

polod wrote: »

Not at all....i once pulled 1500kg of fertiliser with a 1.9tdi passat was no bother it ....ya have to think ahead when driving ya dont want to end up stopped up on a hill

OP it would pull it nope bother with just one cow or two weanlings to be on the safe side

The RSA are cracking down on this sort of behaviour big time. I know the car might be able to pull it and all that but its not safe.

CiniO

-Corkie- wrote: »

The RSA are cracking down on this sort of behaviour big time. I know the car might be able to pull it and all that but its not safe.

If it's within legal limits I don't think RSA can do anything.
As shown above, I could pull 1500kg trailer with my Mazda 6.
Passat is similar size car, so probably could do as well.

-Corkie-

CiniO wrote: »

If it's within legal limits I don't think RSA can do anything.
As shown above, I could pull 1500kg trailer with my Mazda 6.
Passat is similar size car, so probably could do as well.

Well yes you are right. I actually misread post 3 as towing 2400kg.

corktina

you can tow behind a van, you can't tow behind a cow...glad to be of help.:)

guil

CiniO wrote: »

polod wrote: »

Not at all....i once pulled 1500kg of fertiliser with a 1.9tdi passat was no bother it ....ya have to think ahead when driving ya dont want to end up stopped up on a hill

OP it would pull it nope bother with just one cow or two weanlings to be on the safe side

Every vehicle should have a maximum trailer weight which it can tow stated on a information plate.

Like this is mine Mazda 6.



You can see here, that GVW (gross vehicle weight) is 1840kg.
3340 is the max weight of vehicle and trailer.

It means, that I can tow a trailer up to 1500kg with that car.

Bearing in mind that a B licence wouldn't cover you for that

CiniO

guil wrote: »

Bearing in mind that a B licence wouldn't cover you for that

True.

1300kg trailer would be the maximum for B licence with this car.

O.A.P

CiniO wrote: »

Nonsense.
If you really believe it's true, please quote any relevant legislation.

Well I would normaly agree with you ,but on a cpc course two weeks ago we were told that if the trailer has two axels it most be pulled by a 4x4.

dougie-lampkin

-Corkie- wrote: »

The RSA are cracking down on this sort of behaviour big time. I know the car might be able to pull it and all that but its not safe.

The drivetrain of the towing car doesn't really make a difference though, does it. You're saying if the very same 1.9tdi Passat had a 4motion badge it would be a safer towing car?

Besides, I'd like to know how the RSA are "cracking down" on a non-existant law. They can't even let people know how to use a roundabout safely, so what's their strategy on drafting and enforcing legislation?

dougie-lampkin

O.A.P wrote: »

Well I would normaly agree with you ,but on a cpc course two weeks ago we were told that if the trailer has two axels it most be pulled by a 4x4.

Tell that to those who drive 2WD artics and tractors :pac:

CiniO

O.A.P wrote: »

Well I would normaly agree with you ,but on a cpc course two weeks ago we were told that if the trailer has two axels it most be pulled by a 4x4.

It doesn't mean though it's true.

I've went through 3 cpc modules so far, and found some of the trainers there very little knowlegable.
Some information they were giving were simply not true.

Trust me again, that there isn't any requirement for 4x4 to tow trailers.
There is probably some limit after which trailer must be equipped with brakes (maybe 750kg, I'm not sure). But beside it, only weight are the limit.

Simplest example are all articulated trucks, where tractor is only RWD, and trailers can be 3 axles.

CJhaughey

O.A.P wrote: »

Well I would normaly agree with you ,but on a cpc course two weeks ago we were told that if the trailer has two axels it most be pulled by a 4x4.

I don't believe anything I am told unless it has a basis in Law.
Teachers and tutors make mistakes all the time and aren't picked up on it.
If you have a big van like a LWB Iveco you can't tow a double axle trailer?
Lots of race and rally teams will be surprised to hear that. They all have big vans and tow the rally cars on double axle trailers.
The RSA guidelines suggest that a twin axle trailer is best towed with a 4x4 but in law its all about the weight.

01 trailer is <750kg DGVW
02 trailer is >750kg and <3500kg DGVW
Licence and Technical requirements

For O1 Trailers
If you have an ordinary Category B licence, you may:

• Tow a trailer of up to 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver). The combination weight cannot exceed 4.25 tonnes.

O1 trailers are not obliged to have brakes fitted unless they have a DGVW more than half the DGVW of the towing vehicle to which they are attached.
If the trailer’s DGVW is more than half the DGVW of the towing vehicle, then the trailer must be fitted with a service brake, a parking brake and a device capable of automatically stopping the trailer if it becomes detached while in motion—i.e., a breakaway cable. As an alternative to a breakaway cable, a secondary coupling may be fitted.
For O2 Trailers
If you have an ordinary Category B licence, you may:

• Tow an O2 trailer, provided that the DGVW of the trailer does not exceed the un-laden weight of the towing vehicle, and the maximum combination weight does not exceed a total of 3.5 tonnes.

If you have a Category EB licence, you may:

• Tow an O2 trailer, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver), provided that the manufacturer’s rated towing capacity for the towing vehicle is not exceeded.

All O2 trailers must have brakes fitted. They must also be fitted with a service brake, a parking brake and a device capable of automatically stopping the trailer if it becomes detached while in motion—i.e., a breakaway cable. As an alternative to a breakaway cable, a secondary coupling may be fitted.
If the trailer has more than one axle and does not have an automatic breakaway device that activates its brakes should it become detached from the towing vehicle while in motion, then it must be fitted with brakes and a secondary coupling consisting of a chain or wire rope.

guil

O.A.P wrote: »

Well I would normaly agree with you ,but on a cpc course two weeks ago we were told that if the trailer has two axels it most be pulled by a 4x4.

I was told in a cpc module that the rsa were going to crack down on driving hours etc last April ad it never happened. This supposedly came from the rsa aswell

CiniO wrote: »

It doesn't mean though it's true.

I've went through 3 cpc modules so far, and found some of the trainers there very little knowlegable.
Some information they were giving were simply not true.

Trust me again, that there isn't any requirement for 4x4 to tow trailers.
There is probably some limit after which trailer must be equipped with brakes (maybe 750kg, I'm not sure). But beside it, only weight are the limit.

Simplest example are all articulated trucks, where tractor is only RWD, and trailers can be 3 axles.

all artics are rwd

CiniO

guil wrote: »

I was told in a cpc module that the rsa were going to crack down on driving hours etc last April ad it never happened. This supposedly came from the rsa aswell

Are driving hours not already limited within EU regulations?
In that case I don't think RSA can change anything here anyway.

all artics are rwd

That's what I meant. I probably worded it wrongly.

guil

CiniO wrote: »

Are driving hours not already limited within EU regulations?
In that case I don't think RSA can change anything here anyway.

yeah the rule is 90 over a fortnight with a maximum of 56 in one week and minumum breaks etc, its really complicated but the rsa don't seem to be enforcing it at all

CiniO

guil wrote: »

yeah the rule is 90 over a fortnight with a maximum of 56 in one week and minumum breaks etc, its really complicated but the rsa don't seem to be enforcing it at all

Gardai have no clue about tachograph rules. Anytime I was stopped, they were completely not interested in tachograph, I'd say some of them wouldn't even know what tachograph is.
There are supposed to be RSA officers (or sth like that) but I doubt anyone have seen them anywhere on the road.

In most EU countries, there is special part of police which is dealing with heavy transport, and they check tachographs discs and cards regularly.
Beside in most EU countries there are checks of the transport companies, which are supposed to keep a log of tachographs from all drivers for something like 5 years, so even if something wasn't discovered on the spot, it will more likely be discovered later during the check.
Nothing like that in Ireland happening.

On the other hand, Ireland is small country, and there wouldn't be really any drivers doing really long distances in here

RustyNut

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Tell that to those who drive 2WD artics and tractors :pac:

I'm open to correction but I think arctic trailers are not classed as trailers but semi trailers, a certain percentage of it's weight must be born by the drawing vehicle so come unde different rules.

Just being pedantic

O.A.P

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Tell that to those who drive 2WD artics and tractors :pac:

Why tell it to anyone? It was going to cost us a few more minutes if we argued and we just wanted out.

carchaeologist

I dunno, this Renault 5 seems well up to the job towing this caravan......:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPnwi0nb2Q

Fishtits

This rubbish regarding over X weight needs a 4x4 has been around for donkeys years. Its complete tosh.

Fishtits,

Intl mgmt CPC.

Cookie_Monster

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Tell that to those who drive 2WD artics and tractors :pac:

no 2wd trucks, they all have at least 4 wheels on the rear axle :pac:

Mr.Success

I'm also wondering is the back axle to weak in partners to pull cow trailers. Can the bearings go in them or can the axle spread out slightly?

guil

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no 2wd trucks, they all have at least 4 wheels on the rear axle :pac:

yes there is, never see the army scania's, 6x6 i think but they only have a single wheel each side on all axles

CiniO

Mr.Success wrote: »

I'm also wondering is the back axle to weak in partners to pull cow trailers. Can the bearings go in them or can the axle spread out slightly?

There's no reason to wonder.
Get manufacturer data of maximum trailer weight for Partner, then get a trailer weight, compare those two figures and you will know.

dougie-lampkin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no 2wd trucks, they all have at least 4 wheels on the rear axle :pac:

4 wheels per axle doesn't count, seeing as it isn't 4x4 :P

Mr.Success wrote: »

I'm also wondering is the back axle to weak in partners to pull cow trailers. Can the bearings go in them or can the axle spread out slightly?

Being a tail dragger, why would the back axle be affected? Worst you could do is warp the chassis where the hitch is mounted.