Best flat bar road bike?

claxxix

Hi lads,

I've recently moved to Dublin and find my mountain bike too sluggish for my 18 mile daily round trip commute to work. Gonna use the cycle to work scheme so my price range is up to €1000.

I harbour ambitions of doing a triathlon so i need a fast bike but i cant seem to get used to a fully fleged road bike (i know, i wont be competitive in a flat bar but as i have a rucksack on my back for my daily commute i need a bike that i can feel comfortable with)

Any suggestions? I've looked around and like the Raleigh Airlite SF 3.0 Bike which eurocycles are flogging for €800. It feels good to cycle......anyone know anything about this bike? My hardcore bike-head friends reckon its under speced for the price. I've tried the Giant rapid 3 which comes in at €1100 and looks great but my buddies think the price is too steep for the components on it. Went to Halfords to look at their bikes but since i wasnt allowed cycle the bike outside to get the feel of it i left....cant buy a bike that i havent cycled!

Any advice and suggestions as to where to go or what to buy?

Yours sincerely,
claxxix

kenmc

if you want to do a triathlon you're mad not to get a road bike.

mp31

Look online for Giant Rapid 3 - much much cheaper than any LBS here.

easygoing39

For less than €1,000 eurocycles will sell you either a felt,focus or corratec roadbike,alloy frame,carbon forks,105 gears etc etc.Bargins!!!

coolbeans

Madness spending big money on a hybrid. Put road tyres on your mountain bike or buy a Carrera or something similar for €400. Components don't matter a feck when your riding position is upright and slow by virtue of a hybrid's geometry.

kuro_man

lots of flat-bars come up second hand, people often switch to drops.
Here is one example
http://www.adverts.ie/bikes/lapierre-shaper-700-bike-2010-model/496346

Madness spending big money on a hybrid. Put road tyres on your mountain bike or buy a Carrera or something similar for €400. Components don't matter a feck when your riding position is upright and slow by virtue of a hybrid's geometry.

There is a big difference between a hybrid and a flat-bar road bike.
For city cycling, they are the best. Light, fast and easy access to gears and brakes. With bar-ends you have 2 positions, only missing the drops.

coolbeans

For all intents and purposes a flat bar road bike and a hybrid are the same thing.There is no difference. Same geometry, same upright position, same compromises. Some will have sportier tyre/wheel combos varying between 26 and 28 inches but the frame and bars are what define a bike. The rest is extraneous. A Rapid is a hybrid, a Shaper is a hybrid. They're just pricey.

kuro_man

coolbeans wrote: »

For all intents and purposes a flat bar road bike and a hybrid are the same thing.There is no difference. Same geometry, same upright position, same compromises. Some will have sportier tyre/wheel combos varying between 26 and 28 inches but the frame and bars are what define a bike. The rest is extraneous. A Rapid is a hybrid, a Shaper is a hybrid. They're just pricey.

No its not. That like saying all hardtails are the same and all road bikes are the same.
A flat-bar road is a road racing frame with a flat bar. Geometry is the same or very similar. Search threads here and you will see some people have converted them by putting drops handlerbars on them. You can't do that will any ol' hybrid.

I am speaking from experience. I have a alu flat-bar and a carbon fibre road bike. My average long-distance speed in the flat bar is around 22kph - 24kph on hilly terrain. The road adds about 1-2 kph on that max. Its more comfortable, less buzzy on the open road but I would take the flat bar in town every time. If you like road bikes in town, great, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to. [/rant]

coolbeans

Calm yourself. Converting from flats to drops is an exercise to be avoided on any bike. The geometry is very similar on pretty much all bikes but small differences are everything and the frames are different geometry-wise. If you spend a lot of money on a pricey hybrid fair enough but don't go around thinking you'll have a bone fide road bike by changing the bars and shifters. Manufacturers don't just grab a hybrid frame and fire on drops you know. They don't do the reverse either even though it'd probably save them a packet of money to do so. Also, almost all hybrids "flat bar road bikes" are triples belying their mountain bike ancestry. What you want a triple in the city for I don't know.

kuro_man

I wasn't recommending a flat-bar to drop conversion. The point is that it can be done successfully so the frames must be very similar.

Anyway, the OP wants a bike he will use daily not a "bone fida road bike", whatever that means. Sweeping generalisation and semantics aside, there are light fast road bikes with flat-bars that might suit the OP for whatever reason more than drops. Its not really helpful to say "they are all ****e, just get drops" ad nausem.

kuro_man

chalk



cheese

8kvscdpglqnyr4

Agree 100% with kuro_man.
I have 2 road bikes with drops and 1 flat bar road bike ... if I'm going to work or in to town on the bike, I'll always take the flat bar.

I agree a flat bar road bike is a hybrid, but that's just semantics. I've owned hybrids in the past and they are horrible bikes ... slow, clunky, heavy! A flat bar road bike is none of those.

Cubed

OP, i have the rapid 3, its my first road bike and delighted with it. +1 for keeping an eye on the second hand market websites, i picked mine up for 390, few months old still with warranty... The only issue i had was with the standard brake/gear shift combi's but i changed them to sram attack and shimano levers no problems ať a cost of about 80 euros. Real nice bike to cycle

claxxix

My thanks to ye all for the advice lads. Much appreciated. I think Kuro_man has made some very interesting points which i will have to consider further. Regardless, I have every intention of putting bar ends on the bike. Can i ask ye to maybe suggest yer top 3 bikes in order of preference that will fulfill the brief of being flatbar, fast and below €1000.

Thanks guys,
claxxix

kenmc

Bluefoam

http://www.cannondale.com/2012/bikes/recreation-urban/urban/bad-boy

Cannondale Bad Boy, Lefty

Bluefoam

Lumen

Is that an advert for the Bad Boy, or for mudguards?

seven stars

I'm with coolbeans and kenmc - I'd seriously consider getting a road bike if I were you. I ignored similar advice and went for a hybrid (albeit one toward the 'road' end of the spectrum) and I'm regretting my choice. And I don't even intend doing a triathlon.

Why not bring your backpack to the shop and try out a road bike with it on?

Ryath

http://planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CBPXSLPFB/planet_x_pro_carbon_rival_hybrid_bike

Its €120 less than the race bike so at least when you convert to drops you wont have lost to much money. Have the proper version myself as do seems like half the posters around here and it really can't be beaten for value.

I'd be with the lads on choosing a road bike first though you have a reasonably long commute and if you really intend doing triathlon and cycling for fitness you're better of with a road bike. I would have had the same point of view that flat bars were better for town but really there best for short distances. You are nearly as up right on the hoods on a road bike and I'll tell you you will apreciate the drops if you have to a battle a 30kph headwind home. At lower speeds there isn't as much differance between a flat bar road bike and a bike with drops but as you get faster the aerodynamics come into it more.
When I started training for a tri last year I used my wifes mtb hybrid with 1.5" slicks stem flipped bars as low as I could get them for the first month. First time time out on a borrowed road bike I was only 1 minute faster over the 19k loop I was doing for training. Rarely do just that loop anymore but did it a few weeks ago when I was short on time and was 8 minutes faster than the hybrid, it was nightime with a poor front light and I wasn't even trying to TT it. Must do it on the hybrid again for the laugh one of these days. Know I'd be a few minutes faster than last year but no where close to my roadbike.

Chris O Donoghue

I have a Specialized Sequoia, it's a road bike with relaxed geometry, sort of like a light tourer. I use it in the Alps and Pyrenees every year, (for short attacks on cols, not for touring). I've also used it for the Sean Kelly Tour and the Wicklow 200.

Each September i fit a carrier(rack) and a trunk bag, a pair of mudguards and lights and a pair of solid winter wheels/tyres. then I use it to commute until May, then the winter kit gets stripped off and the bike is back to its light summer plumage. I never carry anything on my back.

It has an adjustable stem to raise the angle of the handlebars, and extra brake levers on the top of the bars, so the bike is great in traffic.

I know it's a bit like Black Beauty pulling the cart but if you only have 1 bike its the best way to go.

If you can find a road bike with lugs for a carrier, ort a light tourer, it might be the best option. Maybe something like a Tifosi or other audax frame.

Take a look at this thread for a few idees:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055642854

Tonyandthewhale

Get drops if you want to race or ride any distance on the road. Get a flat bar bike if you want to ride off-road. Some people say that it's easier to see where you're going or easier to brake or you don't have to lean forward as much with a flat bar so it's more comfortable. I don't agree.

If you don't like where the brakes are or having to lean forward so far when using drops then you can fit secondary brakes and a steeply angled or even adjustable stem. Thing is, a lot of people don't seem to make much use of secondary brakes because after a while they realise that the drop bar brakes are fine where they are. Similarly, a lot of people who start off with drop bars set unusually high end up lowering them already once they get fitter and more comfortable with the set-up, unless they have a bag injury of course.

Spending big money on a hybrid bike is a waste of time because they aren't designed to be performance machines. A cheap hybrid will ride just as well as a 1000e one once they're roughly the same shape. The massive aero-dynamic draw-backs and the lack of versatility in positioning means they're too slow and uncomfortable for any benefits such as smoother shifting or slightly lower weight to make much of a difference. You still won't be able to sprint properly or put in massive miles in comfort or keep up a high average speed with the same level of comfort you'd find with drop bars.

kuro_man

Any advise here is largely worthless - because we collectively know a lot about bikes but very little about you!

Generally speaking, drops are the best and most flexible option (I am not arguing about that) but if you have an injury or a beer belly or very short fingers etc. it might not suit you personally and a flat-bar is a good option to consider.

The aero-dynamics of my flat-bar on the bar ends are the same as cycling on the hoods of drops, so I am only missing the drop part (I also put on aerobars for more positions)

Drops are available in different shapes, usually traditional, ergo and compact. Compact would probably suit you better, they have a shorter drop.

Best thing to do is go to a bike shop and say I want to try a road bike with compact drop and flat-bar to compare (with tiagra/105 groupset or equivalent). Modern thread-less headsets which have fewer adjustments so take your time, get the sizing right, esp on the drop and see how it goes. A good bike shop should swap out the handlebars/stem for one the suits you better.

Above all everything else, comfort should be the #1 criteria for buying a road bike.

smacl

Spending big money on a hybrid bike is a waste of time because they aren't designed to be performance machines. A cheap hybrid will ride just as well as a 1000e one once they're roughly the same shape. The massive aero-dynamic draw-backs and the lack of versatility in positioning means they're too slow and uncomfortable for any benefits such as smoother shifting or slightly lower weight to make much of a difference. You still won't be able to sprint properly or put in massive miles in comfort or keep up a high average speed with the same level of comfort you'd find with drop bars.

Yes and no.

I'm currently making the transition from hybrid to road bike myself, and for the moment still find the hybrid much more comfortable. This includes completing the WW200, and numerous Dublin to Wexford and Waterford trips over the year. For me, the principal difference is speed, where on a route that I average 20 - 22kph on the hybrid I'd average 24-26kph on the drop bar road bike. While aerodynamics is a major factor, there's a 6kg weight difference between the two bikes, and at the time I had 23mm tyres on the road bike versus 32mm tyres on hybrid. I'm guessing a flat bar road bike would give me speeds roughly in between the two, for climbs the weight certainly plays as much of a factor as the aerodynamics. Given a choice, I'm still far more comfy on my heavy hybrid, but I'm assuming (hoping?) this will change over time. Just because you are on a hybrid, you're not obliged to sit bolt upright at all times

The arguments for spending more money on a good hybrid versus a poor or average hybrid are no different from those for spending more or less money on your choice of road bike. For most, it's as much about personal choice and available funds as realizing the maximum performance potential of the selected bike. At this moment in time, I'd ditch the road bike for a lighter hybrid in an instant, but that's purely because I haven't got used to the drops yet and find the whole hoods/drops lark to be a royal PITA. No doubt I'll be singing from a different hymn sheet in a few months.

To the OP, I'd suggest getting a few miles in on the type of bike you plan to buy before making the purchase.

ednwireland

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/news/products/q/date/2011/10/06/kaffenback-flat-bar-699

metello

This is my flat bar road bike. I cycle to work and I use it for leisure and easy spinning.

http://images.pricerunner.com/product/image/248540871/Forme-Joule-2011.jpg

http://www.bikestore.ie/forme-joule-2011.html

I haven't seen many here, but it is very nice.

mp31

Cubed wrote: »

OP, i have the rapid 3, its my first road bike and delighted with it. +1 for keeping an eye on the second hand market websites, i picked mine up for 390, few months old still with warranty... The only issue i had was with the standard brake/gear shift combi's but i changed them to sram attack and shimano levers no problems ať a cost of about 80 euros. Real nice bike to cycle

What didn't you like about the brake/gear levers?
Can you post links to the SRAM/Shimano levers that you used as replacements?

Wheely GR8

kuro_man wrote: »

Generally speaking, drops are the best and most flexible option (I am not arguing about that) but if you have an injury or a beer belly or very short fingers etc. it might not suit you personally and a flat-bar is a good option to consider.

The aero-dynamics of my flat-bar on the bar ends are the same as cycling on the hoods of drops, so I am only missing the drop part (I also put on aerobars for more positions)

Is there any handy add-ons for the centre of the handlebars that give forward reach?

kuro_man

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

Is there any handy add-ons for the centre of the handlebars that give forward reach?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38626

Cubed

mp31 wrote: »

What didn't you like about the brake/gear levers?
Can you post links to the SRAM/Shimano levers that you used as replacements?

I thought the feel of the shifting was poor tbh the left shifter didnt work correctly either although when i got the bike the gears were all out of sync so i think the previous owner may have strained them or something... the new shifters work a lot better and look nicer aswell.

Shifters: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=13206

Levers in black: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=34695

Lumen

Friday rant...

Whilst I fully support the right of everyone to ride whatever the hell they like, I also support the right of everyone, and in particular me, to heap criticism on stuff they hate.

And with that pre-justification out the way I can declare that I have a deep, deep loathing for hybrids with aerobars. They are an abomination against bicycle design that brings shame on us all, for the following reasons.

The integrated brake lever/shifter found on modern road bikes, combined with any number of variations of drop bars located at an appropriate height and reach, is a triumph of ergonomics and efficiency. It also imposes fairly strict limitations on the design of the braking system and has knock-on effects on tyre clearance, toe overlap, cabling and so on. This system is also relatively expensive.

By contrast, a simple flat bar hybrid can be cheap, easy to ride in normal clothing, supports a wide range of tyre sizes with plenty of clearance for mudguards, has effective and ergonomic brakes and is plenty fast enough for getting from one location to another, and for these reasons the vast majority of bicycles are sold in this configuration. These attributes hold limited appeal to me but I don't have any problem understanding their popularity. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with flat bar bikes, cycled at any speed or over any distance, ranging from leisurely city runabouts to sporty weekend exercise tools.

The problem is when you have drop bar zealots banging on religiously about aerodynamics, ergonomics, hand positions and that extra 2.17kph they managed on their commute after buying a proper bike, the much-maligned hybrid owner then decides that he (it's always a he, because women have better things to be worrying about) must then turn that perfectly designed hybrid into something it was never intended to be by sticking on a set of aerobars conceived for at-the-threshold-tridork racing and then come up with all sorts of woolly justifications about aerodynamics and ergonomics, when in fact all that's been created is a really badly conceived bike.

You can't brake or shift when using aerobars, whereas both these things are possible without moving your hands on either a flat bar or drop bar bike. You can stick auxiliary brake levers on them (I'm looking at you cdaly) but that still doesn't solve the shifting problem. Additionally, whilst aerobars are designed to be both aerodynamic and reasonably comfortable in a very aggressive position whilst going extremely fast, both flat bars and drops can be cycled for hundreds of km in perfect comfort and at fairly high speed provided that the rider has the necessary fitness. Sticking aerobars on a hybrid says either "I can't be bothered to find a road bike that fits me" or "I made the wrong bike choice but refuse to admit my mistake by selling it".

/Rant

<insert smiley here>

kuro_man

Flat-bar road bikes with aero-bars are the coolest things ever!!!!!!! fact!!!!! yeah, right on!!!!

(Actually, I moved house and my needs change and I didn't have money to buy a new bike, so I tried them out. They help me get used to a drop-like position and they encourage me to loose more from the waistline. Motorists give me more respect and girls, who wouldn't know an abomination against cycling if it slapped them in the face, almost swoon as I pass by. That's how cool I look.)

cdaly_

Lumen wrote: »

You can't brake or shift when using aerobars

Oh yes you can...

blorg

cdaly_ wrote: »

Oh yes you can...

He actually specifically addressed YOU and your bike, specifically, in that post. Look, you are a nice guy and all but that bike was just moronic. We all bit our tongues. IIRC you converted to the one true church of drops eventually.

kuro_man

cdaly_ wrote: »

Oh yes you can...

photo pleases - need some flat-bar bike p0rn

mp31

Lumen wrote: »

Friday rant...

....Sticking aerobars on a hybrid says either "I can't be bothered to find a road bike that fits me" or "I made the wrong bike choice but refuse to admit my mistake by selling it".....

/Rant

<insert smiley here>

OR... it says I want to loose more from the waistline like kuro_man says (even though he used very small writing):

kuro_man wrote: »

... They help me get used to a drop-like position and they encourage me to loose more from the waistline...

BTW kuro_man... did aerobars REALLY help you this way or am I 'Mr Gullible' of the day

cdaly_

blorg wrote: »

He actually specifically addressed YOU and your bike, specifically, in that post. Look, you are a nice guy and all but that bike was just moronic. We all bit our tongues. IIRC you converted to the one true church of drops eventually.

All part of the learning curve...

hardCopy

mp31 wrote: »

OR... it says I want to loose more from the waistline like kuro_man says (even though he used very small writing):



BTW kuro_man... did aerobars REALLY help you this way or am I 'Mr Gullible' of the day

It encourages weight loss, because the first time you get in the drops/aero position your knees hit your gut. You end up kneeing yourself with every pedal stroke until you put down the fork and become svelt.

kuro_man

Aero-bars don't help the waistline directly but if you have a bit of midriff flab they scream "YOU NEED TO LOOSE WEIGHT" at you all the time when you are using them.

I suppose its like going for a cycle with Gillian McKeith*

*full medical title: Gillian McKeith

hardCopy

kuro_man wrote: »

Aero-bars don't help the waistline directly but if you have a bit of midriff flab they scream "YOU NEED TO LOOSE WEIGHT" at you all the time when you are using them.

I suppose its like going for a cycle with Gillian McKeith*

*full medical title: Gillian McKeith

Do they smell of sh1t?

Keep_Her_Lit

Lumen wrote: »

Friday rant...

Whilst I fully support the right of everyone to ride whatever the hell they like, I also support the right of everyone, and in particular me, to heap criticism on stuff they hate.


/Rant

Ah, come on now! "Hate" is a touch OTT, isn't it? After all, we're only talking about bicycles here.

*runs for the door*

Keep_Her_Lit

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Spending big money on a hybrid bike is a waste of time because they aren't designed to be performance machines.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, there are big variations in the characteristics of bikes which fit the broad description of "hybrid". Applying a blanket classification of "not performance machines" to all bikes fitted with flat bars and 700c wheels is a rather blunt form of criticism. Perhaps that's intentional.

A cheap hybrid will ride just as well as a 1000e one once they're roughly the same shape.

So all of the benefits which one would normally expect if buying a mid-priced road bike rather than a cheap one simply vanish in the case of hybrids? Reduced weight, better wheels and tyres, sharper brakes, higher spec groupset - all of this counts for nothing? Sorry, this is pure baloney.

The massive aero-dynamic draw-backs

If the saddle is raised and the bars are lowered, the aerodynamic drawback is minor, not massive. The drop from the saddle to the bars on my commuter MTB is greater than from the saddle to the hoods on my road bike. So apart from a slightly wider hand position, my riding position is more aero on my MTB than on my road bike, unless I'm in the drops.

and the lack of versatility in positioning means they're too slow and uncomfortable for any benefits such as smoother shifting or slightly lower weight to make much of a difference.

Here is a simple statement of fact : a properly set-up flat barred bike is neither slow nor uncomfortable.

You still won't be able to sprint properly ...

I find that flat bars which have been lowered and fitted with bar-ends work very well for sprinting. The shape and positioning of the bar-ends allow for a solid grip and good use of upper body strength.

... or put in massive miles in comfort

Wrong again. I've done several 160km+ spins on my cheap, low-tech, heavy, flat-barred commuter MTB and have been every bit as comfortable both during and after these spins as when using my carbon framed road bike.

or keep up a high average speed with the same level of comfort you'd find with drop bars.

On long, hilly spins, for a similar level of effort, I've found that the difference in average speed is no more than 2.0-2.5km/h. For a high spec hybrid, it would be less*. And this relatively small advantage is whittled down even further in an urban/suburban setting, due to the influence of traffic and because of the additional load typically carried on such journeys.

Really, once you're on a decent bike that's well set-up for the intended use, personal preference counts for more than whether or not the bike is optimal in every respect. Enjoyment is what gets me out on my bike.

For a long sportive, the road bike is really great and I love riding it. And of course drops are compulsory for road racing. But for commuting, which makes up the majority of my annual mileage, it's flat bars all the way. I never find myself wishing that I was on my road bike and I still get huge enjoyment from riding my MTB.

[* Happily, I'll be in a position to provide some evidence for this claim in the not too distant future, since I've just acquired one of [URL="http://www.boardmanbikes.com/images/xl_images/Boardman_Hybrid_Pro_xl.jpg"]these[/URL] under the BTW scheme. Although I haven't ridden it yet (several tweaks to make first), I can tell just by picking it up that it's going to be a whole lotta fun.]

Gandorf

Specialized Sirrus Comp - I have one and I love it.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=61563&scid=1102&scname=Multi+Use

About 870 euro (before tax discount) if you buy via BTW and don't do the voucher nonsense.

ednwireland

for the love of all that is holy

cdaly_ wrote: »

Oh yes you can...

Icyseanfitz

my opinion is that if you will be cycling on the road get a road bike, if you will be doing road and a bit of off road get a mtb and throw some slicks on it, why do you need these hybrids? what are they better at than a mtb or a road bike?

nearly anyone ive seen with them ends up regretting the fact that they didnt just buy an out and out road or mtb

if you want something exclusively for commuting id get a cyclocross

Holyboy

I don't like this term "hybrid" that's being used so much in this thread, it means nothing at all, there are just many different types of bikes out there designed for many different people and types of riding, each one has it's place and a use.
I for one quite like flat bar "road" bikes and for commuting in city traffic they can be a lot easier to ride than a bike with drops for some one who doesn't spend their life in the saddle and may not get used to drops easily.
From earlier posts it would seem the bike I commute on is a "hybrid" but I wouldn't call it that, it's a bike I built to suit me, it's weird as hell but I like that.

Also I would draw your attention to the type of bikes that the large cycling nations use for commuting and daily usage, look at the kind of bikes the Germans, Dutch etc. ride, most of them don't cycle to work or the shops on a drop bar bike, they use functional easy to ride "hybrids"!

Lets just stop being silly and stop calling any bike that isn't either a road bike, MTB or BMX "hybrids" because they aren't, they are just bikes, for goodness sake by some peoples reckoning a 29er should be called a "hybrid".

Lumen

Hybrid means a mix of MTB and road components.

A dutch bike is not a hybrid because it has elements of neither.

A 29er is not a hybrid because even the wheels are MTB specific, too wide for a road bike.

Holyboy

Lumen wrote: »

Hybrid means a mix of MTB and road components.

A dutch bike is not a hybrid because it has elements of neither.

A 29er is not a hybrid because even the wheels are MTB specific, too wide for a road bike.

I disagree, the average "hybrid" comes with 700x38c tyres, these are neither road nor MTB size in fact it's the size of tyre Dutch bikes have been using for years, but all I'm trying to say is a bike is a bike, they all have two wheels, there is one out there to suit just about every one, I was just trying to refer to the former posts saying that anything that isn't either a road bike or MTB should be classed as a "hybrid" which is just nonsense, it was a marketing term thought up to sell an all round bike that filled a gap in the market that people wanted or maybe felt they needed.
Bikes are a bit like music, everyone wants to pigeon hole them so they feel more comfortable.
Just get out and ride a bike, ANY bike, that's what I say!