Urgent Advice needed on having an Irish car in Scotland

1Elainey1

Thanks for reading, I need help! as Im my wits end with this problem
I moved over to Scotland in August and just found out yesterday that I am not covered by Quinn Direct Insurance while I’m in Scotland.

I’ve Irish Reg plates.
No Irish Insurance company will cover me while I’m in Scotland.
No UK insurance company will cover my unless I change my plates.
It seems I cannot get a certificate of conformity for the DVLA in UK unless I have a mph clock.
Am I right in thinking in order to get UK insurance on my car I will have to change my car’s clock to mph, change my plates to British plates, and then hope a British company will insure me?

Worst thing is, I will only be here in Scotland for ten months and then I’m coming back to Ireland in June for good.
Can anyone give me a quick fix? I know there has to be a sneaky way around this as I’ve seen Polish and other Irish Reg cars about Scotland.

Any help on the matter would be hugely appreciated as I’m panicking about getting caught and having no insurance as Im a newly quailifed Teacher over here for the year and dont want to get myself into any bother!


Cheers all,
Elaine

CiniO

1Elainey1 wrote: »

I moved over to Scotland in August and just found out yesterday that I am not covered by Quinn Direct Insurance while I’m in Scotland.

The main question is - how did you find it out?

1Elainey1

Oh nothing sinister, my insurance runs out on the 19th Nov with Quinn so I rang them up to renew it and they said whoever told me that I was actually covered in Scotland was wrong to tell me that and it is an admin error. I nearly lost my life on the phone, I was raging, now im in a mess

Henry Ford III

Get it reregistered. MPH clock may be an unavoidable cost. I hope you have a full license btw

CiniO

1Elainey1 wrote: »

Oh nothing sinister, my insurance runs out on the 19th Nov with Quinn so I rang them up to renew it and they said whoever told me that I was actually covered in Scotland was wrong to tell me that and it is an admin error. I nearly lost my life on the phone, I was raging, now im in a mess

If your policy is valid until 19th November, then you are covered until then. At least third party cover, because it's not up to Quinn to decide about it - it's specified in legislation that every policy has to be valid at least third party cover all over EU for the whole period of policy.

Unfortunately, as you are probably not resident in Ireland anymore, they won't renew your policy. And you probably won't find any Irish insurer to insure you, if you are living in UK.

Maybe though if you are there only temporary you could keep your residency in Ireland?
Like if you work there, but come back home every so often, and have family here, a house maybe, etc (generally centre of your private life is in Ireland) then you can be still considered resident in Ireland.
And therefore you could get an Irish policy which will cover you there in Scotland.

In relation to other Irish registered cars in there, they probably don't stay that long so the policy runs out.
You should have actually got a new policy just before you were leaving, and that would make you through the whole 10 months.
Polish policies, which you mention, are valid all the time, no matter what is the place of residence of the insured person.

Otherwise you might look for short term policies in UK which would cover you on Irish registered cars. They would be way more expensive though.

One thing is for sure - until 19th November you are covered third party so you are road legal, but fire, theft, and comprehensive part of your policy might not work.

C Eng

So considering Quinn Insurance operate in the UK as well as here, surely they could arrange cover through the UK division on your behalf if its only going to be a temp stay over there.

1Elainey1

Thanks a million CiniO your post is very insightful! well sure the thing is I fly home every six weeks and I come home on all my school holidays I was only home three weeks ago for two weeks midterm, Im only based here very temporarily in Dundee. Right I will go with your info and try ringing some more Irish Insurance companys and see what comes up, Im relieved that Im covered til the 19th anyways, As I was having a melt down on the way to work in the morning!

Thanks
Elaine

mickdw

1Elainey1 wrote: »

Thanks a million CiniO your post is very insightful! well sure the thing is I fly home every six weeks and I come home on all my school holidays I was only home three weeks ago for two weeks midterm, Im only based here very temporarily in Dundee. Right I will go with your info and try ringing some more Irish Insurance companys and see what comes up, Im relieved that Im covered til the 19th anyways, As I was having a melt down on the way to work in the morning!

Thanks
Elaine

CiniO does make sense but get proper clarification of this from your insurer. I dont know the ends & outs but it could all depend on residence status.

sundodger5

i would not go to the bother of re-reg and a speedo change if it comes to that. cheap banger to tide you over.

1Elainey1

Good point Mickdw I'll ring them once more, C Eng I have rang Quinn UK but they were extremely unhelpful on the matter. Well the car is a Peugeot 205 and its only worth about 2500 wuro at this stage as its a 2005, then Ive have to bring it back down home again or have it lie here in the yard in Dundee all winter.

ardmacha

C Eng I have rang Quinn UK but they were extremely unhelpful on the matter.

At one time recently Quinn were prohibited from seeking business in GB owing to their "difficulties." So perhaps their unhelpfulness is not entirely their own decision.

Try a few more companies, especially those with international or at least cross border operations.

Marcusm

One of my cars has Quinn UK insurance which seems to be operated on a day to day basis by the same call centres as for Ireland. I would check your policy documents rather than ask the call centre but I bet you'll find that the territorial limit for your comprehensive cover (if that's what you have) is GB, NI and RoI. I believe that they use the same policy docs for UK and ROI and this is what the UK ones specify. THis is particularly useful for me as I spend quite a bit of time going over and back between the countries and particularly wanted a policy that covered both without timelimits. You may have a different position vis a vis "where is the car usually kept overnight". As a student temporarily in the UK, I don't believe that you have to reregister although insurance companies may find it difficult to quote online.

If in doubt, read the fine print rather than rely on the call centre.

UPDATE: Just to let you know that I have looked at the standard ROI policy documnt (uptodate as signed by Mick McAteer, the accountant who is acting as administrator) and it confirms that it covers ROI, GB and NI. You need to notify them that you usually keep the car at a non ROI address but I don't see why they should refuse to cover you. Again, read your policy documents.

Delancey

OP , ringing Quinn again may prove to be a waste of time as I along with others on this forum have discovered.
Ring an Insurance Company and you will be told 1 thing , ring back 5 minutes later and you'll be told something completely different - the level of technical knowledge of insurance staff is abysmal. All they seem to be trained in is cross-selling and fxxk all else.

Solair

If you no longer reside in the Republic of Ireland, it's unlikely that your Irish insurance is appropriate or valid. You really should have Scottish insurance.

Those policies are only intended for someone travelling somewhere for a holiday / on business. Once you move somewhere permanently you probably invalidate the policy.

patwicklow

Get some one over here to insure it fully comp and put you on it as name driver
just might get you out of it till you get the car back here.

oldyouth

patwicklow wrote: »

Get some one over here to insure it fully comp and put you on it as name driver
just might get you out of it till you get the car back here.

And who would you declare as being the owner of the vehicle and where would you declare the vehicle is usually kept?

Solair

You'd seriously be better off just buying a second hand small car over there as a temporary measure.

They are *much* cheaper than they are here in Ireland and the insurance is probably significantly cheaper too.

You could be in quite mess if your insurer in Ireland turns around and says that you did not provide them with the actual address where the car is normally kept.

If you haven't taken out the policy in "good faith" i.e. have not provided all the facts accurately, and honestly, they can just rip up the policy.

Also, you can't keep a car in another EU country with the original plates indefinitely. I know a few German guys who have had serious trouble with the Gardaí for not reregistering for over a year and, if anything, British police are even stricter about traffic law and generally more organised about enforcing it than either the Gardaí or the PSNI.

Also, changing the clock might not be as difficult as you think. I'd suggest that you Google around a bit or talk to someone in Scotland who deals with Japanese imports (they also have KM/H clocks). Sometimes it's as simple as changing the face plate.

Also, if your car has a digital display, rather than a mechanical clock, there may be a preferences setting or, a main dealership might be able to hook it up to a computer and change the display preferences to MPH.

The only problem is that while MPH cars have to be able to display KM/H, the reverse isn't always true as EU rules only require KM/H

If you're intending on only keeping the car in Scotland for a short time, this may not be a good solution as you'll need to have the primary display in KM/H if you bring it back here!

So much for EU single market rules!

CiniO

Solair wrote: »

If you no longer reside in the Republic of Ireland, it's unlikely that your Irish insurance is appropriate or valid. You really should have Scottish insurance.

Those policies are only intended for someone travelling somewhere for a holiday / on business. Once you move somewhere permanently you probably invalidate the policy.

The question is who decides if she is still resident in ROI or not?

As she said before she went there only temporarily for a 10 months contract.
She still has all her family life in Ireland, and returns here regularry. Possibly she has a house back in Ireland as well.

In that case, I suppose it would be possible to prove, that she is still resident in Ireland.

CiniO

Solair wrote: »

Also, you can't keep a car in another EU country with the original plates indefinitely. I know a few German guys who have had serious trouble with the Gardaí for not reregistering for over a year and, if anything, British police are even stricter about traffic law and generally more organised about enforcing it than either the Gardaí or the PSNI.

You can't really show Ireland as an example, as Ireland probably has the strictest law about using foreign cars in the whole EU. Fact that you have to register car here within a month, and that no resident is allowed to drive a foreign car seems a bit harsh.

Anywhere else in Europe it's not that strict.
From what I heard somewhere, in UK you are perfectly legal to drive a foreign car for 6 months.
In some EU countries, there isn't any limits, so you can drive a foreign car as long as it's insured and tested in home country.

Del2005

Are you a fully qualified teacher or is this still part of your training? If you are still in the training programme then you can't change residency to the UK, students aren't eligible to transfer residency.

If you do get an Irish insurance policy only get TP as everything else will run out after a few months.

johnos1984

CiniO wrote: »

The question is who decides if she is still resident in ROI or not?

If studying abroad you are still a resident in Ireland.

Hence why a student cannot buy a UK car, keep it 12 months and return and not pay VRT.

YouTookMyName

The problem with insuring a car in the UK your no claims start from stratch.

CiniO

YouTookMyName wrote: »

The problem with insuring a car in the UK your no claims start from stratch.

Don't they accept Irish NCB?

two wheels good

I've passed many UK MOTs with a vehicle that had a kph speedo. I didn't import it into the UK; the previous owner did and avoided changing the speedo.

Take a look here on govt web site or give your local dvla office a call. I found them very helpful.

As a previous poster mentioned there is a temporary import status too.

YouTookMyName

CiniO wrote: »

Don't they accept Irish NCB?

Seems not. I've been to a few brokers looking for quotes and they said i'd have to start my NCB again. Cheapest i got was 2400STG on a 02 diesel avensis valued at 2000STG.

I was told to ring Zurich UK to see what can i do about the NCB i have with them in Ireland.

Trained Monkey

Hi all,
Im in similar position to OP but my car is insured until next May and I'm a student not a qualified teacher. I brought the car over in September and have been driving it since with Irish plates and insurance. Am I covered? What are my options if I'm not?

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

One of my cars has Quinn UK insurance which seems to be operated on a day to day basis by the same call centres as for Ireland. I would check your policy documents rather than ask the call centre but I bet you'll find that the territorial limit for your comprehensive cover (if that's what you have) is GB, NI and RoI. I believe that they use the same policy docs for UK and ROI and this is what the UK ones specify. THis is particularly useful for me as I spend quite a bit of time going over and back between the countries and particularly wanted a policy that covered both without timelimits. You may have a different position vis a vis "where is the car usually kept overnight". As a student temporarily in the UK, I don't believe that you have to reregister although insurance companies may find it difficult to quote online.

If in doubt, read the fine print rather than rely on the call centre.

UPDATE: Just to let you know that I have looked at the standard ROI policy documnt (uptodate as signed by Mick McAteer, the accountant who is acting as administrator) and it confirms that it covers ROI, GB and NI. You need to notify them that you usually keep the car at a non ROI address but I don't see why they should refuse to cover you. Again, read your policy documents.

Indeed, you are covered for UK, NI and RoI, but not indefinately. Most policies do give full cover, but only cover out-of-country for 30 days.

My uncle had the reverse problem here, last winter. Got stuck here over the weather, was here for 6 weeks, and had a tip. When he got on to insurance in the UK to inform them of his accident, they told him he was out of cover, as it only covered 30 days travel in a given year.........

CiniO

Trained Monkey wrote: »

Hi all,
Im in similar position to OP but my car is insured until next May and I'm a student not a qualified teacher. I brought the car over in September and have been driving it since with Irish plates and insurance. Am I covered? What are my options if I'm not?

You are definitely covered third-party which makes you road legal.
Any additional cover (like fire, theft, own car damage, etc) might be limited, so you need to check with your insurer.

CiniO

galwaytt wrote: »

Indeed, you are covered for UK, NI and RoI, but not indefinately. Most policies do give full cover, but only cover out-of-country for 30 days.

My uncle had the reverse problem here, last winter. Got stuck here over the weather, was here for 6 weeks, and had a tip. When he got on to insurance in the UK to inform them of his accident, they told him he was out of cover, as it only covered 30 days travel in a given year.........

Did he need to use his third party cover to pay for someones' damage he caused?

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

You can't really show Ireland as an example, as Ireland probably has the strictest law about using foreign cars in the whole EU. Fact that you have to register car here within a month, and that no resident is allowed to drive a foreign car seems a bit harsh.

Anywhere else in Europe it's not that strict.
From what I heard somewhere, in UK you are perfectly legal to drive a foreign car for 6 months.
In some EU countries, there isn't any limits, so you can drive a foreign car as long as it's insured and tested in home country.

I think you'll find the UK and Irish rules are generally similar. Non residents not allowed to keep a foreign reg'd car for more than 6 months of visits in a 12 months period, residents not permitted to drive a foreign reg'd car. Another common feature between the UK and Ireland is the ability of a foreign student in the country to retain their foreign registration for the period of their course which for medics can be for up to 6 years. That presupposes an intention to depart the country at the end of the course and a re reg is required if the intention changes.

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

residents not permitted to drive a foreign reg'd car.

I didn't know this stupid rule applies in UK as well.

barone

sundodger5 wrote: »

i would not go to the bother of re-reg and a speedo change if it comes to that. cheap banger to tide you over.

x2

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

I didn't know this stupid rule applies in UK as well.

Neither did I until I saw this on the DVLA website the other day.

UK residents driving non-UK cars in the UK

UK residents are not allowed to use non-UK registered vehicles on UK roads. The only exception is if you work in another EU member state and use an EU-registered company car temporarily in the UK for business purposes.

ardmacha

The rules for EU residents driving cars are obviously pretty much the same everywhere in the EU. The OP is in Scotland for a task of definite duration and her normal residence remains in Ireland unless she plans to move Scotland permanently. She needs an insurance company that is happy with her situation, which shouldn't be a fundamental problem as insurance is not generally more expensive in Scotland. The problem is that insurance companies like people in neat boxes, and she is not.

pheelay

OP, Try http://www.italsure.eu. I've not used them myself, but a friend of mine did in the same situation as yourself - irish resident with irish car in France for 1 year. Quote will probably be a little higher but maybe worth it to avoid to hassle of reregistering or selling/buying local.

The rules in Ireland regarding residency seem quite complicated to me but from what you've said (strong family ties in Ireland + regular visits home), I believe you will remain an irish resident while in Scotland.

galwaytt

CiniO wrote: »

Did he need to use his third party cover to pay for someones' damage he caused?

.....that's a good question - I must ask him how that worked out.........I do know for a fact that they did not cover the €5500 damage to his own Verso...I ended up getting it fixed for him, locally

Marcusm wrote: »

...... a foreign student in the country to retain their foreign registration for the period of their course which for medics can be for up to 6 years. That presupposes an intention to depart the country at the end of the course and a re reg is required if the intention changes.

...by which time, the vehicle might be eligible for VRT-free import......???

_Kaiser_

Solair wrote: »

I know a few German guys who have had serious trouble with the Gardaí for not reregistering for over a year

Actually as a side-note, there's a German reg 3-series in the car park across the road from the office here that's right hand drive?? How's that work?

CiniO

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Actually as a side-note, there's a German reg 3-series in the car park across the road from the office here that's right hand drive?? How's that work?

Maybe some Irish person emigrated to Germany with a car, registered it there, and now came back.