The Alpha Course

homer911

Came across this PDF the other day and then discovered this site focused on presenting the Alpha Course in a Catholic context

http://uk-england.alpha.org/catholic-context/catholic-context-home

I dont know much about about Alpha, but wonder how the Catholics on this forum view it and this in particular

Do Catholics need Alpha?
Why?
Why do we need a Catholic context for Alpha - surely its for all Christians and those seeking?
If Catholics need a follow-on programme, what are Protestant denominations doing?
What is New Evangelisation?

PatricaMcKay2

I dont know much about the Alpha course but what Ive come across about it makes me suspect that its basically kinda Baptist, no? But these days Irish Catholicism is what ever you are having yourself as long you bow the knee to Rome.

homer911

I wouldn't have said so...

My recent knowledge of Alpha is that its currently being run by both the Catholic and CoI churches in Shankill, Co. Dublin with about 100 attendees between the two events. In the past I've seen banners outside Protestant churches of various denominations promoting it, but not at a Catholic Church before - clearly there is a need in all/most Christian Churches for this sort of programme

Isn't Paddy Monaghan, a prominant Irish Catholic, behind this over here?

PDN

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

I dont know much about the Alpha course but what Ive come across about it makes me suspect that its basically kinda Baptist, no? But these days Irish Catholicism is what ever you are having yourself as long you bow the knee to Rome.

The Alpha Course was devised by an Anglican vicar.

PatricaMcKay2

PDN wrote: »

The Alpha Course was devised by an Anglican vicar.

Yup indeed but a Charismatic renewal one.

Its not Anglican the way the BCP, the Four Quartets by T.S. Elliot or Lancelot Andrewes's sermons are.

antiskeptic

homer911 wrote: »

Isn't Paddy Monaghan, a prominant Irish Catholic, behind this over here?

He is indeed. We run it up in Greystones (Evangelical) and get our Alpha supplies from ever-enthusiastic Paddy.

Why do we need a Catholic context for Alpha - surely its for all Christians and those seeking?

If you take the view that a Catholic isn't necessarily a Christian the it's as needed for Catholics (who are still lost) as anyone else.

I wouldn't knock Alpha for a moment (it was instrumental in my coming to faith). It's doctrine-lite way of presenting gospel truth allows it to be laid over the more fundamental and challenging aspects that lie at the core of each denominational view. It would be hard for anyone to be offended with this material.

Perhaps all do what we ourselves do, i.e. do something different for those bits of the programme which are considered a bit suspect (in our case the Holy Spirit section which asks for a commitment (altar call-ish) and presumes from then on that folk have become Christians.

If Catholics need a follow-on programme, what are Protestant denominations doing?

I remember being distraught at the thought of the course ending - I was, as I say, saved as a part result of it and was hungry for more. Some others felt the same way obviously because they started up a bible study. Gospel of John it was .. and it took about two years

Too fast in my opinion.

What is New Evangelisation?

One wonders.

The Quadratic Equation

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

Irish Catholicism is what ever you are having yourself as long you bow the knee to Rome.

You're fond of generalisms, so here another one. Irish Protestantism is what ever you are having yourself, just as long you bow the knee to sectarian myths and bigotry about your Catholic neighbour.

PatricaMcKay2

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

You're fond of generalisms, so here another one. Irish Protestantism is what ever you are having yourself, just as long you bow the knee to sectarian myths and bigotry about your Catholic neighbour.

Glenstal Abby and now the Alpha course would be pretty damning evidence favour of my assertion there a chara, no?

And please lose the mopery, it doesnt look good coming from a stater.

The Quadratic Equation

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

Glenstal Abby and now the Alpha course would be pretty damning evidence favour of my assertion there a chara, no?

And please lose the mopery, it doesnt look good coming from a stater.

The mopery and whataboutery is all your own. It always amuses me that the only purpose, meaning and yardstick some people can find in life is having to define themselves in terms of what they are "anti". What a pitiful waste of an existance.

PatricaMcKay2

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

The mopery and whataboutery is all your own. It always amuses me that the only purpose, meaning and yardstick some people can find in life is having to define themselves in terms of what they are "anti". What a pitiful waste of an existance.

No the mopery and whataboutry is yours.

Does not the existence of the carry on of both Glenstal Abbey, the existence of the Alpha course in Roman Catholic parishes and the Theresea Gallagher cult all with the blessing of the hierarchy PROVE my intital point to which you cannot respond too so you respond with mopery about imagined Orange folk.

And sorry but I have positive theological principles that I believe in- You dont, otherwise you would be either a Sedevacantionist, Orthodox or Protestant instead of being an Irish Catholic.

The Quadratic Equation

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

No the mopery and whataboutry is yours.

Does not the existence of the carry on of both Glenstal Abbey, the existence of the Alpha course in Roman Catholic parishes and the Theresea Gallagher cult all with the blessing of the hierarchy PROVE my intital point to which you cannot respond too so you respond with mopery about imagined Orange folk.

As ever, I've yet to see you ever post anything that is actually factual and correct about Catholicism.

Glenstal Abbey - never heard anything about it, and I certainly won't believe anything you would post about it thats for sure.

I know nothing about that Alpha course, but I'm sure there are Catholic approved versions.

Theresa Gallagher, never heard of her. Christina Gallagher is certainly not approved at all.

How does the existance of Judas prove Jesus was wrong ?

How does the existance of David Koresh prove Born Again Christians wrong ?

How does the existance of Anders Behring Breivik prove Norways Christians wrong ?

PatricaMcKay2

Poor baby, stop playing silly buggers.

Keaton admitted that I have a pretty good understanding of things Roman Catholic. I would find it hard not to presume that you have absolutely no understanding of Pre-Vatican II Roman Catholicism or Roman Catholicism outside of Ireland; there is Roman Catholic approved Pentacostalism but that doesnt stop Pentecostalism being fundamentally alien to the historic reality of Roman Catholicism (though not the mess that is contemporary Irish Catholicism which is just about following the Pope).

The fact is that the hierarchy neither condemns the bizzare new age irrationalism of Glenstal Abbey nor the "House of Prayer" cult, and allows them to get on with their waffle as long as they accept the jurisdiction of the RC hierarchy. You cant get away from that fact. And we arent talking here about fringe loonies.

Keaton

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

Poor baby, stop playing silly buggers.

Keaton admitted that I have a pretty good understanding of things Roman Catholic. I would find it hard not to presume that you have absolutely no understanding of Pre-Vatican II Roman Catholicism or Roman Catholicism outside of Ireland; there is Roman Catholic approved Pentacostalism but that doesnt stop Pentecostalism being fundamentally alien to the historic reality of Roman Catholicism (though not the mess that is contemporary Irish Catholicism which is just about following the Pope).

The fact is that the hierarchy neither condemns the bizzare new age irrationalism of Glenstal Abbey nor the "House of Prayer" cult, and allows them to get on with their waffle as long as they accept the jurisdiction of the RC hierarchy. You cant get away from that fact. And we arent talking here about fringe loonies.

I think the local bishop has spoken against C. Gallagher. Meanwhile, the activites at Glenstal are bizarre. The trouble is, discipline has broken down in the Church. Whereas in the past, excoms would be declared, in the modern Church, one can be a 'priest in good standing', like the heretic Hans Kung, but still disregard Catholic dogma. Of course, they have put themselves out of communion, but nobody likes to talk much about that now.

homer911

This thread was intended to be a discussion about the Alpha Course and the commonality/differences between the approaches adopted for it by the various churches, at the risk of modding my own thread, could people please take their general name-calling and antagonism somewhere else...

Personal expereriences of Alpha would be very welcome..

Alpha is probably the most dramatic thing to impact mainstream evangelism in years and if we are to see any mass renewal of the Christian faith in Ireland, its likely to come out of this and similar programmes

tommy2bad

PatricaMcKay2;

...the bizzare new age irrationalism of Glenstal Abbey

I am assuming it Theosony you are referring to or is their more?
Patricia it would help if we knew where your coming from here. You make assertions about catholicism which you claim not to be, so how dose it concern you?
I'm have no objections to Alpha courses, theirs nothing unchristian in them, I don't see them as anything more than 'off the shelf introduction to Christianity'

PatricaMcKay2

tommy2bad wrote: »

PatricaMcKay2;

I am assuming it Theosony you are referring to or is their more?

The abbot is a Pantheist and an irrationalist.

tommy2bad

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

The abbot is a Pantheist and an irrationalist.

Such nonsense and with such certainty.
The irony of accusing someone of irrationality when it comes faith. LOL

PatricaMcKay2

tommy2bad wrote: »

Such nonsense and with such certainty.
The irony of accusing someone of irrationality when it comes faith. LOL

You obviously havent read the haunted ink well or his waffle on the tarot among other things. Or maybe you didnt understand them.

tommy2bad

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

You obviously havent read the haunted ink well or his waffle on the tarot among other things. Or maybe you didnt understand them.

Admittedly I've only read Underground Cathedrals but I'll keep an eye out for the ones you mentioned. Hope I can to understand them, do they have pictures?

PDN

So, Alpha Course anyone?

PatricaMcKay2

homer911 wrote: »

Alpha is probably the most dramatic thing to impact mainstream evangelism in years and if we are to see any mass renewal of the Christian faith in Ireland, its likely to come out of this and similar programmes

In all probability Bach's cantatas make more genuine converts to God than all the Alpha courses in the world put together. Admittedly I dont know much about the Alpha courses but I dont like the idea of "marketing" when it comes to religion. Christianity in Ireland could do with shedding a lot of dead weight rather than attracting more with what amounts to gimics borrowed from the crass world of salesmanship.

PatricaMcKay2

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I know nothing about that Alpha course, but I'm sure there are Catholic approved versions.

Indeed the version used by anti-sceptic's Church is approved by the RC hierarchy in Ireland which tells us all we need to know.

tommy2bad

homer911 wrote: »

Do Catholics need Alpha?
Why?
Probably, the level of understanding of the faith is poor generally but courses like this only attract the committed.
Why do we need a Catholic context for Alpha - surely its for all Christians and those seeking?
Cos were not them See below.
If Catholics need a follow-on programme, what are Protestant denominations doing?
No idea I'm not one.
What is New Evangelisation?

I suspect it's a way of getting the laity to take up the slack caused by a dwindling priesthood.

homer911

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

In all probability Bach's cantatas make more genuine converts to God than all the Alpha courses in the world put together. Admittedly I dont know much about the Alpha courses but I dont like the idea of "marketing" when it comes to religion. Christianity in Ireland could do with shedding a lot of dead weight rather than attracting more with what amounts to gimics borrowed from the crass world of salesmanship.

Easy Patricia! You admit to knowing nothing about the Alpha Course and then condemn it as gimics and salesmanship!!

Firstly thats very unchristian, secondly its plain wrong. We are all called to actively share our faith - we do that in different ways: in our words and deeds and the love we show to God and others. Alpha is not for those who have no interest in God - it is for those on the peripherary of church who feel there has got to be more than turning up once in a blue moon. People attend an alpha course because they want to, not because of some "gimic" and to suggest that sharing the word of God is a gimic is well, laughable.

There are many on the edge of church who have NEVER heard the message of the saving grace of God preached in church. Alpha certanly fills a role in reaching those who would otherwise be lost

What you crassly call marketing, others call evangelism

homer911

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

Christianity in Ireland could do with shedding a lot of dead weight rather than attracting more

Really! So nobody should become a christian in Ireland until you are happy that there is no more dead weight in the churches?

And how do you propose to achieve this?

Or are you (again, without knowing anything about the Alpha Course) suggesting that all it achieves is to add more "dead weight"

For someone who seems to know very little about the subject, you seem to have a lot to say - perhaps you should attend one?

tommy2bad

What you crassly call marketing, others call evangelism

Now I haven't done an Alpha course but the linked PDF looks like a bunch of powerpoint slides, so I can see how someone would suspect it of crass marketing.

There are many on the edge of church who have NEVER heard the message of the saving grace of God preached in church. Alpha certanly fills a role in reaching those who would otherwise be lost

How? Attracting people to church is difficult enough but getting them to attend a course that has no economic benefit sounds impossible unless they already are church curious. Which raises the question "why haven't they heard the message of the saving grace of God preached in church."

wonderfulname

What exactly is alpha? Like what happens in the course? I've seen this advertised everywhere recently and still have no clue.

PDN

tommy2bad wrote: »

Now I haven't done an Alpha course but the linked PDF looks like a bunch of powerpoint slides, so I can see how someone would suspect it of crass marketing.

Only if they, by some strange explosion of something in their brains, erroneously imagine that powerpoint slides are inextricably linked with crass marketing.

tommy2bad

PDN wrote: »

Only if they, by some strange explosion of something in their brains, erroneously imagine that powerpoint slides are inextricably linked with crass marketing.

either you work in marketing or you haven't been to enough timeshare promotions.:D

PDN

tommy2bad wrote: »

either you work in marketing or you haven't been to enough timeshare promotions.:D

Actually I'm a church minister, and I use Powerpoint most Sundays when I preach.

homer911

wonderfulname wrote: »

What exactly is alpha? Like what happens in the course? I've seen this advertised everywhere recently and still have no clue.

Simply put, its a course on the basics of Christian faith. In Ireland its generally a denomination-neutral course, its run by both Catholic and Protestant churches. As its the basics, it tends to avoid any denominational differences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_course

I hear that Youth Alpha is starting to develop in Ireland
http://www.alphacourse.ie/old/youth-alpha-in-schools/

wonderfulname

The basics of the Christian faith = the meaning of life? Interesting, is this necessary in schools, I thought far beyond the basics were covered in religion classes?

Keaton

wonderfulname wrote: »

The basics of the Christian faith = the meaning of life? Interesting, is this necessary in schools, I thought far beyond the basics were covered in religion classes?

No, the basics of the faith are not taught in Catholic schools. Where have you been for the last 40 years? :pac:

PatricaMcKay2

wonderfulname wrote: »

The basics of the Christian faith = the meaning of life? Interesting, is this necessary in schools, I thought far beyond the basics were covered in religion classes?

The only basics we learnt was extremely hard sell anti-abortion stuff and the grave ills of chucking stuff at the RUC, the rest was basically hippy humanism that few would disagree with in a sentimental mood; we didnt cover Christology or the Trinity at all in any real depth.

deaconsteve

homer911 wrote: »

Came across this PDF the other day and then discovered this site focused on presenting the Alpha Course in a Catholic context

http://uk-england.alpha.org/catholic-context/catholic-context-home

I dont know much about about Alpha, but wonder how the Catholics on this forum view it and this in particular

Do Catholics need Alpha?
Why?
Why do we need a Catholic context for Alpha - surely its for all Christians and those seeking?
If Catholics need a follow-on programme, what are Protestant denominations doing?
What is New Evangelisation?

I have a great deal of experience with Alpha in Catholic settings. I'm a deacon in the Catholic Church in the US and also work full time to bring Alpha to the Catholic Church in the US.

Do Catholics need Alpha and Why? - Catholics need a personal relationship with God through Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. Catholics need a living and active faith, it is not enough to just go to Mass as an obligation and be done. We have lots of fans of Jesus but we are called to be followers, disciples. Alpha is a very effective means of evangelization and conversion. If not Alpha something else that is very intentional in this regard.

Why do we need one in a Catholic context - we just use Alpha as it is. Some pastors want to delve into the teaching on the church and take it to a more Catholic understanding but we use Alpha just as it is. Alpha doesn't teach anything contrary to the Catholic faith but it doesn't teach the fullness of the faith. Which answers the next question, yes for new Catholic believers I think a follow on course is necessary - fuller understanding of the Sacraments etc.

What are others doing as a follow-on - we all need follow up after Alpha - people that come to faith on Alpha are new babes in Christ and need to be fed, they need help to come to full maturity in Christ

What is the New Evangelization? - it is a call to re-evangelize those nations that were once considered Christian nations, US, Europe etc. To re-evangelize Catholics in the pews that do not have a personal relationship with God, to bring their faith alive. The evangelized go on to become evangelizers.

Long but helpful I hope.

siralan

Have any catholics attended a alpha course in Ireland ?

Doc Farrell

siralan wrote: »

Have any catholics attended a alpha course in Ireland ?

Plenty have but it's unlikely any will tell you about it here because of the level of trolling. It's an interdenominational course that's been around for four decades, if you are interested you would be better off emailing the course directors. I can get you further info if you need it, just send me a pm.

homer911

Since my original post, http://www.youthalpha.ie/ is up and running and proving very popular by all accounts

(I think Alpha Ireland are looking for a new Director with Paddy Monaghan standing down, if anyone is interested..)

noah45

I have done the Alpha course twice and absolutely loved it.

It is for Christians not just a specific denomination, it is about our relationship with Christ and uses excerpts from the Bible.

Run_to_da_hills

I attended Alpha 5 years ago at DEC and would highly recommend it also.

(The food was yummy.)