Nightclub Medics.

Medic475

Howaye lads! Just wondering whats everyones thoughts on havin Medics in Nightclubs. Some places have them, some don't! Are they worth having or not? I'd be interested in hearing from everyone esp Paramedics and Ambo crews who do respond to nightclubs on a regular basis and do the nightclubs you respond to have Medics working there?
Thanks!

MyKeyG

Medic475 wrote: »

Howaye lads! Just wondering whats everyones thoughts on havin Medics in Nightclubs. Some places have them, some don't! Are they worth having or not? I'd be interested in hearing from everyone esp Paramedics and Ambo crews who do respond to nightclubs on a regular basis and do the nightclubs you respond to have Medics working there?
Thanks!

I presume you mean due to alcohol related accidents?

Medic475

Well mainly due to intoxication. But also siezures, falls, assaults resulting in injury etc.

meathstevie

Your nightclub will have to be a massive setup to justify the cost. A few people with decent first aid training on the staff in my opinion should be sufficient as a highly trained ambulance crew with good equipment is never very far away.

MyKeyG

Medic475 wrote: »

But also siezures, falls, assaults resulting in injury etc.

All mainly due to intoxication one would argue otherwise why would the discussion be exclusive to clubs and not other public places?

My brother is a fireman and his best friend is a paramedic and they're none too enthusiastic about calls to people who've brought injury's on themselves due to alcohol abuse (eliminating random assault of course).

They believe everyone should receive treatment no matter the circumstances of course but I'm not too sure if the idea of having them hang around clubs would get a resounding 'aye' in the Ambulance service nor should it in my opinion. They should be a phone call away just like any other individual that needs them.

That rant over I agree with the above. I've never seen sufficient emergency in a clubs/pubs to justify an on premises paramedic.

stretch00

Hmmmm. As a workplace it will of course have the requisite amount of equipment and trained OFA's in place. Their duty of care would extend to the patrons, ergo they already all have medics in place.

Ouch, just fallen out of bed and woken up

Most clubs would not be in a position to fund this, especially the whacking great rise in insurance to meet the potential vicarious liability. So no. sorry but not a good idea.

ratracer

meathstevie wrote: »

Your nightclub will have to be a massive setup to justify the cost. A few people with decent first aid training on the staff in my opinion should be sufficient as a highly trained ambulance crew with good equipment is never very far away.

In Dublin maybe, but there is life outside of the pale ya know, and even in COrk, Limerick, Galway, the ambo's are seriously stretched, could be 20 mins or more waiting on a weekend

meathstevie

If you're talking about non life threatening injuries decent first aid skills will be sufficient. I fully accept the side effect of injuries generaly known as pain is not very nice for anyone but if the injuries one sustains in an incident in a nightclub are not life threatening any amount of pain is quickly forgotten afterwards. I'm not making that up, it's the way your body works.

What I would argue though is that there should at all time be a member of staff working who should have at least good basic first aid skills and should be trained in the use of a defibrilator that should be kept available and in working order on the premises for any venue with a capacity to hold a large amount of people.

Ultimately it's a matter of where do you draw the line ?

Keeping in mind that most of the injuries people sustain in or near nightclubs are mostly minor and partially self inflicted due to excess drinking I do not believe it necessary and justifiable to have medics on the premises when open for business.

CB19Kevo

I have worked with event medics in Hotels for functions and at other medium sized events.
Good idea if the crowd exceeds 500 or so, or if the event is in a rural area.
As for clubs i cant see too many being able to justify a emt on site, The usual situation is a member of the security team looks after any First aid.

source

Trinity rooms in Limerick had an EMT and a few first responders on staff, then again the club was pretty big, capacty of over 1800 if I remember correctly.

It's definitely an asset, but the place would need to be pretty big to warrant it.

Medic475

Cool! Thanks for all the replies folks! It was interesting to hear all your opinions!

TylerIE

meathstevie wrote: »

Your nightclub will have to be a massive setup to justify the cost. A few people with decent first aid training on the staff in my opinion should be sufficient as a highly trained ambulance crew with good equipment is never very far away.

There are often wait times in excess of twenty minute in Dublin alone. Having staff with at least an EFR level can mean that minor injuries can be dealt with by those who dont panic. Night Club staff (stereotyping here) seem to call an ambulance once they see blood, yet someone falling over themselves drunk is kicked out unceremoniously or a diabetic is just either kicked out or given coke / sweet drinks regardless. The vast majority of wounds Iv seen in nightclubs dont need an ambulance -the person can either make their own way to an ED (To wait 8 hours in minors) or go home and go to an Urgent Care Centre / GP the following morning)

stretch00 wrote: »

Hmmmm. As a workplace it will of course have the requisite amount of equipment and trained OFA's in place. Their duty of care would extend to the patrons, ergo they already all have medics in place.

...
Most clubs would not be in a position to fund this, especially the whacking great rise in insurance to meet the potential vicarious liability. So no. sorry but not a good idea.

As a workplace it may only have 30/40 staff. In which case it may not be required to have a trained OFA on site.

Many of the venues that I know have medics did have staff trained but it meant that every time an incident occured a manager and the designated first aider (often security) had to spend an hour dealing with the incident. That meant taking security personnel away from their posts, meaning that if it was a busy club it essentially had to have an extra person working always. Similar if its bar staff are first aid trained.

One prestigious Dublin venue has two of their security who function primarily as hosts (super nummery to security requirements) and deal with First Aid as it occurs.

Also its not ALL about costs. Having a dedicated medic in a venue suggests that the venue take H&S seriously. Patrons who are ill or injured are not left feeling like a burden or being manhandled by inexperienced security. If the patron just has something minor they can even be given minor pain relief assuming EMT/P/AP or treated for an asthma attack (that could otherwise ruin the night) and operating under one of the CPG approved organisations. About ten years ago there was a caller into a Dublin Radio Station praising a certain Dublin Venue for the great way they were treated after they sprained their ankle on the stairs. The presenter even let them name the venue as it was a good news story. That same venue had a contract to have an "Old Style" EMT on site at all times when the venue was open.
If its a wound in a discreet area a Professional Provider can deal with that in their experienced professional manner. If staff are feeling unwell they can be assessed and treated by a professional (I know one Para who picked up on a staff members meningitis one night). If Next of Kin or Parents etc need to be informed this can be done by a provider who is likely to have experience of dealing with relatives. If its just a drunk and the provider decides to send them home they can give the friends etc appropriate after-care advice.

If there is a future claim the venue can show that in addition to the standard H&S precautions, they did everything in their power to minimize the severity of injury. They will also have documentation detailing the exact severity of the injury so as to minimise the risk of exaggerated claims or claims of negligent care.

Furthermore even if the workplace did use their own staff, normally at LEAST two would need to be trained to OFA level. Factor in their salaries for the 6 days training, the cost of training, recertification, CFR practice sessions (if they are doing it right) and the fact that a % of their working time will be taken up with first aid duties and many larger venues will probably be approaching an almost cost neutral position in hiring an equipped medic.