marriage over?

unregis

Hi folks

I am in a real mess and would appreciate some sound advice. Basically I am a married man in my early forties with three children and I think that I am nearing the end of my marriage.
There is loads of thing wrong and I would like some perspective or advice from people who are in similar situations past or present.

I am not sure whether I love, like or respect my wife of 15 years. She is a difficult person at the best of times. I have given her everything I can emotionally & finacially and yet nothing I do seems to be enough. She is very childish & immature emotionally. She lives in a bubble, insulated from the pressures of making ends meet. She works in the home, although I would have to say that she makes a big job of it as the kids are great and don't take an awful lot of her time now compared to when they were young. Indeed the kids are healthy and doing very well in school and have no issues.
She beleives that she has no time for herself (untrue) and anytime that I encourage her to do anything she does the opposite. She has never tried to better herself through self development of anykind. She resents me for being a (reasonably) successful businessman (who has spent many years in education whilst keeping the show on the road).
We have a great house although like most are heavily mortgaged but have no other bills, loans etc bar the normal living expenses.
Anyway the crux of the problem is that she is short-tempered, can be a bully, is selfish with her perceived lack of time and beleives the entire world revolves around her, even more so than her kids. She has let herself go big-time in terms of hygiene, cleaning her teeth etc and she is a binge drinker. She sits up late most nights when school holidays are on and won't get up til 11am on average during those breaks or weekends.
This has been going on for TEN years or more. I have been the one who has initiated the counselling, therapists etc but on each of the four or five different ones we attended, they haven't yielded any real positive results.
To be fair to her I have't always been in the right & I know I antagonise her and that she has trust issues with me. Generally though, I am a straightforward person who is a great father & husband. But I am undoubtedly the glue that holds the family together & am the person who makes most of the effort with our family and marriage. I am the sole provider for most of last ten years and despite the economy or standard of living has not suffered greatly.
She has said before that she is "not sure" whether we have a future, whether she still loves me etc. We are both unhappy most of the time and spend as little time together as possible! We never even sit in the same room.
However when we have stood looking over the abyss, we have always pulled back - usually because we don't want to upset the kids.

However this is the crux of my problem - when is enough, enough?
Do we continue on living almost separate lives in a loveless marriage where the kids have married parents doing their best under the one roof?
Do I push for separation which will traumatise everyone especially the young kids who are pretty oblivious to what is going on?

Finally I should add - there is no other persons involved. No violence or possibility of same. Its just a question of should I continue to suffer for the sake of the kids:(
At times my mental health and business are suffering and I really struggle some days with all that is going on. Any advice please????

Lana80

Hi Op ,I am sorry to hear of your situation.Separation of course could be traumatic however this relationship sounds like it has been traumatic for many years and I wonder about the impact it has on all 5 of ye.The fact that you and your wife spend as little time with each other as possible cannot go unnoticed by your children.I have serious doubt about them not having any 'issues'.Alot of the focus is on your wife's behaviour but are you in some way enabling her as partners of heavy drinkers can?It can be difficult to see things clearly when one is a situation like this.Have you thought of going for some form of therapy yourself?

unregis

Thanks for replying - but the fact is that I am in therapy and it has helped somewhat. I was on medication for six years prior to that but it didn't work as the core problem is my wife

fungun

To be fair to her I have't always been in the right & I know I antagonise her and that she has trust issues with me. Generally though, I am a straightforward person who is a great father & husband. But I am undoubtedly the glue that holds the family together & am the person who makes most of the effort with our family and marriage. I am the sole provider for most of last ten years and despite the economy or standard of living has not suffered greatly.

I was on medication for six years prior to that but it didn't work as the core problem is my wife

She has trust issues with you? Do you mean justified issues, i.e. you cheated in the past?

Its hard to tell from your post but either you were very unemotional and objective writing that and are in the right.....or you come across as someone who is laying all the blame on your wife for your relationship issues.

Now maybe you are correct, but usually in situations like this there are 2 sides to every story. What would her side to the story say? If there is a 'her side' to this I have to say you come across as pretty unwilling to take any of the blame and pretty arrogant-sounding

unregis

RE: Fungun.
Not trying just to blame her - there are two sides to every story as you say & an awful lot of stuff that I could include but didn't. There is no-one else involved - the trust issue is because I work away from home a good deal, nothing else. The core issue is whether the marriage is worth saving for the sake of the kids and if anyone has similar experience of this situation - please give me some advice, thanks

fungun

Anyway the crux of the problem is that she is short-tempered, can be a bully, is selfish with her perceived lack of time and beleives the entire world revolves around her, even more so than her kids

See I dont think this is the crux. I think the crux is WHY she is like this.

If the reason behind her being like that is something that can be worked on, then perhaps there is hope for a fix. But you say you have tried 4/5 counsellors. I have to say I would never advise to stay in a reln for the kids if you are miserable and with no hope of an improvement.
You say the kids dont know anything but they are not being brought up in a healthy atmosphere and will surely have detected you are not happy together (although you dont say what age they are)

unregis

Thanks for that. There is merit in what you say re garding what the crux of tghe matter is. She has a very explosive personality and can go from being in a good form to very bad form for the simpliest of reasons. Many of these are nothing to do with me, it could be anything at all to set her off. So its fair to deduce that her moodiness is not only down to me but also to how she interacts with everything in her day to day life. Her nutition is poor too and I believe that affects her badly too.
The kids are 7, 9 and 15 and the eldest child is constantly being picked on. It doesn't matter whether I am there or not. Like I said - I am not necessarily the stimulus so if I wasn't around at all (separated) I am not convinced that the kids would benefit. Does that make sense?

LegacyUser

Do you think she has a drink problem? To me it sounds like she does. She also sounds emotionally abusive, with the moodiness, unreasonableness and explosions.

I am a woman but to be honest she sounds like a bit of a passenger to me. Like she doesn't love you but sees you as a convenience who keeps the show on the road financially and emotionally.

It is not good for the children to be trapped in this situation. It's unhealthy. A split would be best all around. It will force her to grow the hell up and stop parasiting off you while pretending to be a SAHM and remaining in denial about her drink problem.

maxwell smart

Your wife is very very unhappy. Think back to when you met, when you had such love for each other. How did you let that slip?
What is the catalyst for your wifes actions? Words? Deeds?

If you don't love her then you need to think about separating.
But if you still have something inside for her, then don't let it slip away.
Life is hard, but it can be easier if there are 2 people pulling together.
do you ever ask her opinion on things? Do you organise paying the bills (not the money the actual task of deciding what needs to get paid).

I would think that your wife could have self-esteem issues. Why not treat her to a weekend away at a health spa?

Think about rekindling your romance, would it be worth the effort? If you think it is then don't wait until she tells you it's over. Get your finger out and do something.

unregis

Re 16 ft down -thanks for reply
I think she puts drink ahead of our marriage & kids but is a fully functional alcoholic. Its all part of the dilemma. LIke I have said my main concern is the kids & living with one alky parent(borderline) isn't a better alternative to what we now have. In fact it might get worse.

I suppose I am inevitably going to be the one who leaves(if it comes to it) and I think that is wrong but that opens up a whole new discussion........

unregis

thats good advice Maxwell- I have to take it on board

Distorted

Your wife sounds almost "de-socialised" in that her world is so small, she has forgotten how to interact in an acceptable way with other people. I guess you've tried encouraging her to take up a hobby? I do think a lot of it comes down to self motivation, and your wife seems to have got stuck in a rut without the willingness to do anything about it.

Is the alocholism the main problem? Has she tried getting treatment for it? How much have you tried to work on your relationship, eg weekends away without the kids, nights out, etc?

From the way you describe it, you sound utterly mismatched and hardly in love. I do often wonder why people who have nothing in common, in terms of aspirations, ambitions and interests, get married.

unregis

[QUOTE=Distorted;Your wife sounds almost "de-socialised" in that her world is so small, she has forgotten how to interact in an acceptable way with other people. I guess you've tried encouraging her to take up a hobby? I do think a lot of it comes down to self motivation, and your wife seems to have got stuck in a rut without the willingness to do anything about it.

Is the alocholism the main problem? Has she tried getting treatment for it? How much have you tried to work on your relationship, eg weekends away without the kids, nights out, etc?

From the way you describe it, you sound utterly mismatched and hardly in love. I do often wonder why people who have nothing in common, in terms of aspirations, ambitions and interests, get married.[/QUOTE]


Yes she is stuck in a rut but I am unable to get her out of it. When the rut suits someone then its quite attractive to them.

Have tried to work on things socially & personally without much traction.

Don't understand the rest of your point though as People get married because love is a very powerful emotion but over a period of twenty years that has wained. Suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

estar

Hi it's clear you have no respect for her or confidence in her however justified. have you ever attended al anon for support of those with alcoholics in the family? Have you tried taking time away from the family to discuss the future? have you told her what you want? Nagging adults doesn't work but choices do. if you break up who will the kids live with? Most probably her. she will live in the house. A better option is to gently get around to the suggestion of rehab rather than leaving the care to her. Ye must have gotten on up to seven years ago ? Is your time away with work having a negative effect on the marriage? It's tough to be the one left at home all the time. would it be possible that all the material things are not making you all happy? if you stopped working so much would she prefer that? You would have less but with more support is she willing to meet you half way? you sound more like her parent and not her partner. She sounds depressed and also hard to live with. I have read a lot about her behaviour but not her emotions. What is she feeling? Does she like herself right now? Is she happy or does she blame you? Right now I'm not understanding anything about her from what you write. She isn't just a bad person. Something is going wrong for her. What is it? Have you asked? Just my thoughts on your post. Wishing you the best..even if you seperate you must get along better than you do now.....

strandroad

unregis wrote: »

RE: Fungun.
Not trying just to blame her - there are two sides to every story as you say & an awful lot of stuff that I could include but didn't. There is no-one else involved - the trust issue is because I work away from home a good deal, nothing else. The core issue is whether the marriage is worth saving for the sake of the kids and if anyone has similar experience of this situation - please give me some advice, thanks

I have this feeling that there is a lot missing from this story. You seem to be looking for validation of you decision to end your marriage and not for advice. Taking your words at face value, your wife doesn't seem to have anything to offer to you anymore (apart from the fact that she brought up your children at home and they turned out well). But a marriage of twenty years is rarely so one-sided in who's the bad guy so she may have a compelling story to tell as well.

unregis

Re MHGE - of course there is a lot missing. How can you paraphrase 15 years in a few paragraphs & yes maybe she "has a compelling story" to tell. Read the rest of the posts as I tried to be as balanced as I could & I ain't going through it all again. But that isn't the issue - its what is the best for the future is the key concern.

Re - estar thank you for your interesting points but although alcohol is a problem its isn't the only one, nor the main one, thx.

qwertytlk

If your both unhappy and have genuinely tried to fix it , ie marriage conselling etc, then i would say maybe think of seperating. I think your fooling yourself if you think staying together is better for the kids because they are not stupid and im sure they see / sense somethings not right. I mean do u think they dont notice that their parents dont even sit in the same room?
All of your lives would probably be happier if this situation was put to rest.
I say all this with the best of intention and from experience as i was a child of a marriage which sounds very similar to this. My mother stayed thinking we would be better off and it just was not the case as home was never a very happy place. Living with two adults who clearly dont get on is not good for your kids. Not to mention you and your wife. Youv said your emotional well being has suffered, as well as your business and from what you say your wife doesnt sound much better off. If she is sitting up late most nights drinking then she is probably doing this to escape the unhappiness of her life, also she could be depressed as sleeping late, letting yourself go, never wanting to do anything etc are all signs of dperession.
I would definatley say you would all be happier out of this situation, and the your children will grow up with two happier more productive parents, albeit seperated ones but it would still be better than the current situation imo.
Talk to your wife as im sure neither of you want to wake up in another ten years time reaslising your in the same unhappy positions.
It wil be hard for a while if you do seperate but overall i think it give you both a new lease on life.

AMCCORK

For what it's worth I would say your kids should be the priority. You want a new life and to separate fine but what will happen to your kids. You need to organize so that they will be safe and cared for and if your wife is a functioning alcoholic now that could change radically with the trauma of divorce etc. would you really be willing to leave your kids to deal with that. Its fine to say people shouldn't stay together for the kids but this sounds like there would be a concern over the kids well being if you weren't around.

Fittle

unregis wrote: »

Hi folks



She resents me for being a (reasonably) successful businessman (who has spent many years in education whilst keeping the show on the road).

I am a straightforward person who is a great father & husband. But I am undoubtedly the glue that holds the family together

I would love if your wife could come on and post her version of your marriage. From what I'm reading above, it seems you have worked away alot, been in education (probably in the evenings) while working full-time, been on meds for six years and so on - and yet you consider that YOU are the person who glues the family together

When have you glued the family together exactly, when you've hardly been present in the home for the past ten years

Distorted

unregis wrote: »

Don't understand the rest of your point though as People get married because love is a very powerful emotion but over a period of twenty years that has wained. Suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

Its just that I wouldn't fall in love with a person who had character traits that I found opposing to mine. For example, I could never develop strong feelings for a smoker, because healthy living and keeping fit is so important to me. All the research into the topic indicates that people are drawn more to people they are compatible with in terms of shared outlook on life and shared interests. Obviously, people can change as they get older, but most people do not fundementally change and usually at least retain basic motivation to adhere to basic standards.

(hoping this is not too off-topic, as trying to reply to the OP).

Another point OP - you mention you were on medication for 6 years. Without wishing to probe too much, this is quite a major thing and depending on the root cause, might have made living with you in a relationship more difficult?

fits

Fittle wrote: »

I would love if your wife could come on and post her version of your marriage. From what I'm reading above, it seems you have worked away alot, been in education (probably in the evenings) while working full-time, been on meds for six years and so on - and yet you consider that YOU are the person who glues the family together

When have you glued the family together exactly, when you've hardly been present in the home for the past ten years

Ditto this. It sounds like she has been on her own an awful lot, raising the family while OP built up his business. I cant imagine what it must be like raising young children with little adult company to speak of. And now they're a bit older she doesnt know how to use her time. She sounds lonely, depressed and stuck in a rut. Its very sad.

OP I would be interested in hearing her side of the story too. It sounds like she is desperately unhappy and unable to pull herself out of the rut she is in. Maybe splitting up is the best thing that could happen her, although it could go either way.

RandyMann

unregis wrote: »

Hi folks

I am in a real mess and would appreciate some sound advice. Basically I am a married man in my early forties with three children and I think that I am nearing the end of my marriage.
There is loads of thing wrong and I would like some perspective or advice from people who are in similar situations past or present.

I am not sure whether I love, like or respect my wife of 15 years. She is a difficult person at the best of times. I have given her everything I can emotionally & finacially and yet nothing I do seems to be enough. She is very childish & immature emotionally. She lives in a bubble, insulated from the pressures of making ends meet. She works in the home, although I would have to say that she makes a big job of it as the kids are great and don't take an awful lot of her time now compared to when they were young. Indeed the kids are healthy and doing very well in school and have no issues.
She beleives that she has no time for herself (untrue) and anytime that I encourage her to do anything she does the opposite. She has never tried to better herself through self development of anykind. She resents me for being a (reasonably) successful businessman (who has spent many years in education whilst keeping the show on the road).
We have a great house although like most are heavily mortgaged but have no other bills, loans etc bar the normal living expenses.
Anyway the crux of the problem is that she is short-tempered, can be a bully, is selfish with her perceived lack of time and beleives the entire world revolves around her, even more so than her kids. She has let herself go big-time in terms of hygiene, cleaning her teeth etc and she is a binge drinker. She sits up late most nights when school holidays are on and won't get up til 11am on average during those breaks or weekends.
This has been going on for TEN years or more. I have been the one who has initiated the counselling, therapists etc but on each of the four or five different ones we attended, they haven't yielded any real positive results.
To be fair to her I have't always been in the right & I know I antagonise her and that she has trust issues with me. Generally though, I am a straightforward person who is a great father & husband. But I am undoubtedly the glue that holds the family together & am the person who makes most of the effort with our family and marriage. I am the sole provider for most of last ten years and despite the economy or standard of living has not suffered greatly.
She has said before that she is "not sure" whether we have a future, whether she still loves me etc. We are both unhappy most of the time and spend as little time together as possible! We never even sit in the same room.
However when we have stood looking over the abyss, we have always pulled back - usually because we don't want to upset the kids.

However this is the crux of my problem - when is enough, enough?
Do we continue on living almost separate lives in a loveless marriage where the kids have married parents doing their best under the one roof?
Do I push for separation which will traumatise everyone especially the young kids who are pretty oblivious to what is going on?

Finally I should add - there is no other persons involved. No violence or possibility of same. Its just a question of should I continue to suffer for the sake of the kids:(
At times my mental health and business are suffering and I really struggle some days with all that is going on. Any advice please????

#

God bless your patience, 10 years is a hell of time to endure that. This woman has clearly lost respect for herself and you, so I would say end it now before you waste another 10 years of your life.
Get on with living your own life, you only get one chance and don't waste it on someone who is messing her own up and dragging you down.

Android 666

I think there is a distinctly anti-male bias on this forum which I've noticed from reading a few threads recently. If this was written by a women the advice and comments would not be as judgmental as this.

Fittle

Android 666 wrote: »

I think there is a distinctly anti-male bias on this forum which I've noticed from reading a few threads recently. If this was written by a women the advice and comments would not be as judgmental as this.

I think you are completely wrong. If this post was written by a woman, I would also ask her how she thinks she has 'been the glue to hold the family together' when she has hardly been present in the marriage/home for the past ten years.

LegacyUser

I agree with Android. Anti-man bias. I think you should ask HER to leave and go for custody of the children yourself. She can have supervised visitation and if she cleans up her act then shared custody.

I don't see why you should have to leave your home and children when she is the one in the wrong.

She is an aloholic. She is the only one who can decide to get better. At the moment she has it all good so has no reason to change.

What she is doing is emotional abuse and is damaging to the family. If a man did the same everyone would be saying get him out.

Android 666

Fittle wrote: »

I think you are completely wrong. If this post was written by a woman, I would also ask her how she thinks she has 'been the glue to hold the family together' when she has hardly been present in the marriage/home for the past ten years.

Well, he seems to be the one that has tried to save his marriage in the past:

I have been the one who has initiated the counselling, therapists etc but on each of the four or five different ones we attended, they haven't yielded any real positive results.

Both husband and wife are the glue in a marriage and a family but sometimes it can feel like one person is taking the strain more than the other and from what I've read in his post I think the OP is quite entitled to feel like that sometimes.

Should he have not worked at all or strived to have bettered himself with further education while in this marriage? People have to work away from their homes sometimes - it's not a pleasant thing to do but it's a fact of life. And I commend anyone that has continued on with their education after they've settled down with a family, it's not an easy thing to do. I also think it's a low blow to suggest that someone is not there just because they are taking anti-depressants.

Yes the man has probably lead a busy life, does that give his wife an excuse to sit on her hole and drink her days away? If it was the man in the relationship being an abusive drinker there would be no sympathy for him here. Marriages are about two people working together through the good times and the bad. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case here. I wish you luck OP in whatever decision you make.

The guy has come on here to tell his story which takes a lot of guts and there seem to be a lot of you trying to suggest that he's the reason his marriage is falling apart because obviously it couldn't be the woman's fault could it?

Taltos

Android 666 - you are in breach of our charter.

If you have an issue with threads/posts you can always use the report feature or contact our CMODS.

Taltos

unregis

Firstly thank you everyone for taking the time to read & post replies.

Qwerty - your post is really good & I am taking your point of view into account. Thanks.
AMCCork - the kids are the priority. I think that if there were no kids we would have separated long ago.
Fittle & Fits - she isn't coming on here to tell her side of the story so you will have to love listening to other sources for your amusement. I have posted in an honest & open fashion. I haven't been "hardly present in the home" as was suggested. There is seven days in the week and I am there for five, constantly in contact and have done everything possible to play a significant part in my family life. I organise holidays, schools, extra-curric stuff, family visits etc and part-take as much as I can. My participation is better than many full time at home parents as I like to cram in good stuff when am there.

Anyway, like I keep saying its quality advice about what might be best for the future that I am looking for, not judgemental stuff.

Sleepy

Unless you can find a way for her to be the one to move out, I reckon you're just going to have to stick it out until the youngest is 18 OP.

It's a horrible prospect for you but with the prejudice against fathers in the Irish legal system and the fact you work long hours, the alternative is a depressed woman with an alcohol problem and the "shame" and trauma of going through a divorce raising your children while you watch miserably from the sidelines.

fits

unregis wrote: »

Fittle & Fits - she isn't coming on here to tell her side of the story so you will have to love listening to other sources for your amusement. I have posted in an honest & open fashion. I haven't been "hardly present in the home" as was suggested. There is seven days in the week and I am there for five, constantly in contact and have done everything possible to play a significant part in my family life. I organise holidays, schools, extra-curric stuff, family visits etc and part-take as much as I can. My participation is better than many full time at home parents as I like to cram in good stuff when am there.

.

Forgive me for assuming that someone who mentioned his wife had trust issues because he's away a lot (your own words), has a successful business, and improved his qualifications, may not have been around as much as others. My mistake

unregis wrote: »

the trust issue is because I work away from home a good deal, nothing else.

I dont believe your wife is blameless in this by any means. Some people are better able to make a good life for themselves than others and it sounds like she hasnt taken as much responsibility for her own happiness as maybe she should. I think it happens a lot of women that they lose themselves when raising children and find it hard to get their lives back again. Maybe a separation is the kick up the arse she needs or maybe it will drive her further into alcoholism. Who knows. As others have mentioned, you will have a tough job getting custody especially if the split is acrimonious.

username123

OP - Im just picking up on the alcohol theme here as I was raised in a home with an alcoholic parent. We used to say there were other problems, like moodiness, bullying, depression etc.. but the truth was that the problem was alcohol and the other problems were all behaviours associated with that addiction.

Your wives behaviours sound like those of someone with a drink problem. Have you ever addressed to her that she puts drink before her family? The lack of personal hygiene habits is a familiar one to me as well, have you had any discussion with your wife on this? The explosive personality sounds familiar to me as well.

All I can say, from MY perspective, is that I knew my father had a problem from a very young age (pre-teens) and it affected my whole life. As alcoholism tends to be progressive it got worse over time. I grew up knowing something was wrong, the environment was toxic. My mother enabled it all over the years and thought she was hiding it from us kids - she wasnt. It destroyed our family in the end and it destroyed my mothers health also. The stress for the family members of living with a fully functioning alcoholic is enormous. It takes a toll.

You have a role in all of this too. Unless you have learned how not to do it, you are probably enabling the alcoholic. You cannot help the alcoholic directly, you can only help yourself. You cannot change someone elses behaviour, you can only change your own. To that end I would suggest you give Alanon a try, there you would get support and learn how to deal with the alcoholic behaviour in the house, your eldest child might benefit also. This is how you would learn how to change your own behaviour and take responsibility for yourself in this situation - as opposed to inadvertantly making it worse by enabling or bringing more conflict to the situation.

I hope you find some resolve to this situation.

LegacyUser

op , i think you have gone further than the extra mile when it comes to your clearly troubled partner , alcoholics are deeply selfish beings and are usually completly wrapped up in thier own troubles and pain , as other posters have said , you can only do so much to help someone , ultimatley they have to take the 1st step themselves and follow through , unfortunatly its not just this thread which is anti male , the courts are worse , if you look for custody of your kids , you wife has a big headstart

good luck