Dedicated preparation for a Marathon PB effort??

Moycullen1

I have a friend who has run 80 marathons in the last five years. Unfortunately for him however his PB of 3:18 was achieved on the very first one after a very structured and disciplined 16-week program. Although he has been primarily focussed on hitting the 100 marathon mark since then before his legs give up (or his wife leaves him) he is still keen on achieving a PB and has made several failed attempts to do so.

The problem however is that I am blue in the face telling him he needs to block off 6 or 8 weeks from marathon running for dedicated training to beat 3:18 which by anyones standards was a great time.

His most recent attempt was in Dublin where he felt he was probably in good enough shape to attempt a PB. He had however ran four marathons in the eight week lead up to Dublin the last one being a 3:21 in Liverpool three weeks earlier. He blew up in Dublin.

He is of the opinion that a gentle marathon can serve as a long run whereas I feel it,
1- takes too much out of him and,
2- reduces the benefit he gets out of the training he does in the four of five days after the marathon.

On one hand it has become something of a standing joke and a source of much frustration for him that he cant better his very first marathon however on the other hand he enjoys the idea of doing a couple of marathons a month. He does however feel that there should be a way of doing both and would like some advice on how to go about it.

Would someone please tell me/him how much is too much what he should be doing differently.

Clearlier

Moycullen1 wrote: »

I have a friend who has run 80 marathons in the last five years. Unfortunately for him however his PB of 3:18 was achieved on the very first one after a very structured and disciplined 16-week program. Although he has been primarily focussed on hitting the 100 marathon mark since then before his legs give up (or his wife leaves him) he is still keen on achieving a PB and has made several failed attempts to do so.

The problem however is that I am blue in the face telling him he needs to block off 6 or 8 weeks from marathon running for dedicated training to beat 3:18 which by anyones standards was a great time.

His most recent attempt was in Dublin where he felt he was probably in good enough shape to attempt a PB. He had however ran four marathons in the eight week lead up to Dublin the last one being a 3:21 in Liverpool three weeks earlier. He blew up in Dublin.

He is of the opinion that a gentle marathon can serve as a long run whereas I feel it,
1- takes too much out of him and,
2- reduces the benefit he gets out of the training he does in the four of five days after the marathon.

On one hand it has become something of a standing joke and a source of much frustration for him that he cant better his very first marathon however on the other hand he enjoys the idea of doing a couple of marathons a month. He does however feel that there should be a way of doing both and would like some advice on how to go about it.

Would someone please tell me/him how much is too much what he should be doing differently.

I've seen several good marathon runners run marathons as part of their preparations for a target marathon. They seem to run them in and around the 1min per mile slower than their goal pace although I know of one guy who got a job as a pacer for the elite women and ran about 15 - 20 seconds per mile slower. These guys tend to be pretty high mileage though, 120 - 150 mpw for the two that are immediately coming to mind. This helps in that they recover quickly from the effort and it doesn't take much out of their training so it is in effect a long run for them.

What I'm saying is that it is possible to run multiple marathons and to PB but for somebody who has 3:18 as a PB and so is probably touching on 3:30 for most of their marathons I suspect that it's taking too much out of him and prevent him from making the progress that he'd need in order to run a PB.

That said, if you were able to provide a lot more detail about his training there might be a few straightforward changes he could make that would deliver a PB.

If it were me I'd prioritise one of his goals and use it as a springboard to his second goal. If he wants to run the 100 marathons first then just focus on building mileage and don't worry about the marathon times. If he wants to break his PB first then take a break from running marathons and train with a focus on a specific race for a minimum of 12 - 14 weeks. He'll probably find that he can run multiple marathons at a faster pace for the same effort after this and because this should take less out of him find it easier to reach the 100 marathon mark.

Pisco Sour

Sounds like your mate wants to have his cake and eat it too!

I never understand the purpose of trying to reach a landmark number of marathons. I'd rather run one race fast (whatever the distance) than run 100 of them slow!

And he cant understand why he isn't able to beat his time for his first marathon? I would have thought the reason is a bit obvious.

shels4ever

Maybe if he had run 4 + hours and not 3:21 in liverpool he might have run better in dublin, If he has run 3:21 then he could just really slow down the other 3 mrathons a month and target just one. That way he might have his cake and eat it..

dna_leri

Lets see 80 marathons in 5 years, thats 16 a year or 1 every 3 or 4 weeks.

I think he should forget about going faster, go longer instead.

BobMac104

feck it thats crazy stuff

Oisin11178

I know who your taking about and i was talking to him in Liverpool and at Dublin. It is possible to do it but its hard. Ive about half the marathon s ran as Connor but i go for a pb early in the year. 8 weeks free from marathons and a couple of speed sessions a week should do the trick. Lets face it if if can get 3.21 in Liverpool Hes good for sub 3.15 on a flat course.

ThePiedPiper

Noakes Lore of Running has some sections about peaking. There are a couple of different theories, but Noakes suggests that a person can only really peak twice in the one 12 month period. A peak can last for maybe 4-6 weeks and after that, times will fall away. Your friend is probably never peaking. If he is putting a fair amount of effort into every marathon he does, his body is in a constant state of tiredness and repairing itself.

From a mental viewpoint, your friend may be at PB pace up until 20 miles in a race for example. At this point, the marathon he ran 3 weeks beforehand will start taking it's toll and very possibly, he will be thinking of the marathon that he wants to do in another 3 weeks. In this situation, he probably will not be able to motivate himself to dig deep and get through the last 6 miles to get the PB.

I have to admit myself that I threw the towel in a little bit in the DCM this year as when my A goal was gone, I sort of didn't care enough about the B and C goal and started thinking about my next marathon in April. In contrast, when I ran a very good marathon this spring for a PB, I was telling myself from 22 miles onwards that I might never get a chance to run such a fast race again and I pushed on big time in it.

Moycullen1

Thanks folks, some good points above. I would agree that he may have gotten away with a 3:45 - 4-hr effort in Liverpool but even at that, in my opinion he would not have been fresh enough to achieve his full potential in Dublin. Perhaps another way of coming at this would be to decide when someone should run their last 26.2 'training run' before a PB attempt. Given that he does some decent running between his marathons including track and tempo runs I wonder if four weeks is enough to sharpen ones form and build a bit of race freshness.

Oisin11178

Seen he just ran a marathon in crewe in 3.26, He just needs a bit of a break and hes bang on for 3.15.