You are too loud

beardybrewer

I work in an open plan office setting which involves a lot of telephone calls. As part of my review "using an appropriate volume" is actually one of my goals. Legally what can the company do here and what protections exist for me, the accussed employee? I am getting sick and tired of being told I'm too loud when using my regular speaking voice. It is akin to saying I don't like your face or I don't like your personality. Putting this on my review feels like it is crossing the line.

schemingbohemia

newkie wrote: »

I work in an open plan office setting which involves a lot of telephone calls. As part of my review "using an appropriate volume" is actually one of my goals. Legally what can the company do here and what protections exist for me, the accussed employee? I am getting sick and tired of being told I'm too loud when using my regular speaking voice. It is akin to saying I don't like your face or I don't like your personality. Putting this on my review feels like it is crossing the line.

It's not the same thing at all. You can control the volume you speak at, you are chosing not to do so. I don't see that there's any legal query here to speak of.

listermint

You remind me of a friend of mine.

This lad learned that there is an 'office voice' and there is a down the pub voice.
unfortunately we havent managed to teach him to use the office voice in the pub yet.



Its up to you to modify how you operate as it is well within your power. You are obviously adversely effecting those sitting within close proximity of you.

beardybrewer

Yes and no. I did say regular speaking voice, open plan office, and use of the phone for work. Give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I am doing everything in my power to keep everyone happy.

The legal query is what legal options does the company have to address this? And the flip side is what protection does an employee have when confronted with this scenario?

listermint

I would gather that you may have to consult your HR handbook in terms of appropriate practice. You would have signed this upon receiving your initial contract.

Paulw

newkie wrote: »

The legal query is what legal options does the company have to address this? And the flip side is what protection does an employee have when confronted with this scenario?

I'm sure the company have clearly set out policies dealing with the office environment, which would include any disciplinary procedures. These would protect both employer and employee.

In our office, we recently got new headsets. The new headphones had closed-cup ear pieces, and we suddenly found that people were speaking much louder due to the fact they couldn't hear the ambiend office noise. A quick tap on the shoulder reminded them that they didn't have to shout. It may be a case that you don't quite realise how loud you are.

RangeR

One of our customers is a open plan call center. When I went into them one day, I noticed audio speakers dotted around the office. There was also a lot of background chatter, so much so that it couldn't possibly be coming from the actual employees.

I asked my customer what it was. I forget the technical term for it but it was to allow the call center agents to talk on the phone without bothering those near them. It also allowed agents, who may be self conscious on the phone in the office, to know that others around them, even sitting right next to them, can not make out what they are saying while talking to customers.

I didn't believe it could possibly work but a quick walk around their call center was impressive, by what I COULDN'T hear.

This may be an option for you? I'm not sure if the outlay top set this up but I couldn't imagine it would be astronomical.

seamus

I don't think it would be considered unreasonable for a company to bring a matter of personal conduct to an employee's attention where it is causing an unreasonable disruption to the working environment. Personal conduct is, as it suggests, about how you conduct yourself on a day-to-day basis. It's not just about disciplinary matters, but about the overall way you interact in the office.

I am getting sick and tired of being told I'm too loud when using my regular speaking voice. It is akin to saying I don't like your face or I don't like your personality.

Actually I think it's fairly different. It's like being told that there's a bit of a whiff of you when you come into the office, or that the way you hammer on the keyboard when you're typing is causing a distraction to those around you (I know someone like this, for the record).

Unlike your face or your personality, the way you speak is not an immutable (pun intended) or unchangeable aspect of yourself. It has been highlighted to you (more than once going by your post), therefore you need to consider that this is an issue which you need to address, not an issue which everyone else just has to live with.
The way to solve this is to work with a speech therapist or a vocal coach to work on controlling the volume of your voice. It would be worth suggesting to your work that you wish to do this and see if they will pay for (or at least subsidise) the cost of such lessons. Think of it as work-related training. If they pay for other training, no reason why they shouldn't pay for this, and it looks good for you that you're seen to be making a serious effort, rather than a glib line in your review where, "I tried to speak quieter in the office".

What can the company do? Well, they've highlighted it to you as an issue. If you continually fail to address this issue, they would be well within their rights to begin disciplinary procedures against you. Seems harsh and quite farcical, but I know plenty of loud people and I can see how having to sit beside one of them in work all day would drive everyone else mental.

beardybrewer

I have found the information I was looking for here:
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

From what I can see there is very little a company can do without entering a legal gray-zone.

Also, someone above didn't know the name of it but suggested the company look in to a white noise generator. A very good idea and I will suggest it if the company persists in hassling me.

---

Regarding control over your normal speaking tone, again yes and no. There is a varying volume your normal speaking voice defaults to when not consciously trying to whisper or tone it down. Also deeper voices carry further than others. There are probably a lot of interesting factors in all of this. All I know is I can hear everyone as crystal clear as they can probably hear me, but my voice is deep.

Unless I have a flashing sign that lights up everytime I speak, there will be times I unconsciously speak at normal volume.

As far as the control arguement goes, I can no more control said volume than a fat person can pass up a doughnut. Yes, we both can control ourselves but it takes conscious effort which sometimes lapses. And you don't see fat people having goals put in to their reviews and those people are walking compost heaps!

It takes conscious effort but you'll get used to it after a while. We had someone in our office with the same problem and they've adjusted easily enough.
Speaking too loudly is disturbing your colleagues and not fair on them.
Tone it down, it's not the end of the world or some sort of awful draconian requirement.

There is a varying volume your normal speaking voice defaults to when not consciously trying to whisper or tone it down.

Right. So consciously tone it down.

Jumpy

You are trying to make excuses. You can adjust your speaking voice, and have been asked to do it by the business, rather than try to avoid and challenge your responsibility, accept it.
By not doing so your are performing what is commonly known as a CLM or Career Limiting Move.

Paulw

newkie wrote: »

I have found the information I was looking for here:
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

From what I can see there is very little a company can do without entering a legal gray-zone.

Can you show the section you mean?

The company are well within their rights to use their company disciplinary procedures, which may even include firing an employee that is disruptive to the working environment.

seamus

newkie wrote: »

As far as the control arguement goes, I can no more control said volume than a fat person can pass up a doughnut. Yes, we both can control ourselves but it takes conscious effort which sometimes lapses. And you don't see fat people having goals put in to their reviews and those people are walking compost heaps!

I'm really glad you made that comparison. Because there are plenty of jobs where someone's fitness and/or weight have an impact on their job and where such goals as, "Lose weight" or "Do more exercise" are indeed added to their "goals". Gardai, for example, have to undergo periodic fitness tests where they can be suspended for continually failing to meet the requirement.
Or even something more mundane like a trainer in a gym. The trainer's fitness and weight is actually quite irrelevant to their ability to give direction to clients, but I don't think anyone would consider it unreasonable that a gym trainer is required to maintain a decent physique.

Effectively what you're saying is that you don't see any problem here. You're aware that you do something which has an effect on your co-workers and directly causes discomfort to those around you, but you're unwilling to consider that you have to do anything about it, even though you know you can.

From what I can see there is very little a company can do without entering a legal gray-zone.

Dismissal is very often a legal grey zone.

If if they don't fire you, as Jumpy says continuing refusal to address this issue will likely result in you failing to secure performance-related bonusses, get mediocre (if any) payrises and be continually overlooked for promotion on the basis that you consistently fail to meet your performance goals and act in a defiant manner to management in relation to your personal conduct.

And there's practically nothing you can do about that, since none of the above things are guaranteed by your employment contract.

beardybrewer

seamus wrote: »

Effectively what you're saying is that you don't see any problem here. You're aware that you do something which has an effect on your co-workers and directly causes discomfort to those around you, but you're unwilling to consider that you have to do anything about it, even though you know you can.

Not at all, you're bringing your own baggage in to this. I'm just making the point that no matter how aware your are it is easy to slip up.

I will admit one thing I don't respect is if someone took it direct to my manager rather than talk to me about it. A quick look or IM from someone while I'm on the phone is all it would take to remind me.

Do an exercise, for the rest of the day speak an octaive lower or in the accent of your choice (be creative, just something slightly different from your normal voice that takes a bit of conscious effort to keep up). Not that I really expect you to try because it's easier to just type "that's easy, you're lazy" and get back on your high horse. But if it really was your life and it was real, keep track how many times you slip up today. Feeling brave? Try it for a week. Then imagine doing that for the rest of your life.

Anyhow, I can see this thread is starting to take a nasty turn. We've all had an experience with a loud talker, someone obnoxious, or had to tolerate someone we've had to work with. You can turn me in to that person and use me as your pinata if you like. But keep in mind that most people don't want to be hated.

seamus

newkie wrote: »

Not at all, you're bringing your own baggage in to this.

My own baggage? I actually laughed. I have no baggage on this one, everyone I work with is very pleasant, nothing annoying goes on here at all

I'm just making the point that no matter how aware your are it is easy to slip up.

Agreed. But that's not really what we're talking about. You haven't said that you've tried to address this on an ongoing basis, but slip up every now and again. If you did, then I don't think your employer would be highlighting it as an ongoing issue.

I will admit one thing I don't respect is if someone took it direct to my manager rather than talk to me about it. A quick look or IM from someone while I'm on the phone is all it would take to remind me.

It might not always be appropriate to do so. You kind of have to see it from their point of view. If they don't know you, they're not going to tap you on the shoulder and ask you to keep it down. A lot of people also aren't much into confrontation (no matter how friendly or mundane) and so wouldn't feel right at all saying it to you, even if they're friendly with you.

However, what would work is for you to prompt people in this regard. A quick group mail to the people around you saying, "Hey guys, I know I can be loud on the phone and it's very distracting, so I'm trying to work on it. But if I accidentally slip up while on the phone, just fire me an IM to remind me to keep the volume down."
This means that people are now aware that you're open to being approached or prompted in this way and not "sick and tired" of being told and ready to bite their head off if they ask you to keep it down.

Not that I really expect you to try because it's easier to just type "that's easy, you're lazy" and get back on your high horse.

Did I say it was easy? I said it a bit glibly perhaps, but I didn't say it was easy. However, it's not impossible either. Like breaking any habit or changing any such aspect it's a matter of conditioning. The first couple of weeks require solid commitment and thought, and then as time goes on you find yourself doing it naturally, and/or catching yourself when you slip up. While it's a lifelong change, it's not something that you will have actively work on every minute of every day for the rest of your life. Once the natural control is there, you just need to keep it in place.

Anyhow, I can see this thread is starting to take a nasty turn.

Doesn't seem very nasty to me. It's not really telling you what you want to hear, (i.e. "Your employer can't do this, take them to court").
I have no particular vested interest here. I'm particularly good at filtering out external noise while I work (I often don't even hear anyone speaking to me unless they tap me on the shoulder), so I can't say I've ever had to deal with an irritating colleague. But I can certainly understand how it would be insanely frustrating to sit beside someone very noisy, if I couldn't switch off like I do.

All of the posts here are really only asking you to consider your own conduct in relation to those around you. If your employer has highlighted this as an issue, then perhaps consider it something which needs to be addressed, not necessarily just a stupid demand from your employer.

schemingbohemia

Please can I start a thread and only receive responses I like?

Jumpy

newkie wrote: »

Not at all, you're bringing your own baggage in to this. I'm just making the point that no matter how aware your are it is easy to slip up.

I will admit one thing I don't respect is if someone took it direct to my manager rather than talk to me about it. A quick look or IM from someone while I'm on the phone is all it would take to remind me.

Do an exercise, for the rest of the day speak an octaive lower or in the accent of your choice (be creative, just something slightly different from your normal voice that takes a bit of conscious effort to keep up). Not that I really expect you to try because it's easier to just type "that's easy, you're lazy" and get back on your high horse. But if it really was your life and it was real, keep track how many times you slip up today. Feeling brave? Try it for a week. Then imagine doing that for the rest of your life.

Anyhow, I can see this thread is starting to take a nasty turn. We've all had an experience with a loud talker, someone obnoxious, or had to tolerate someone we've had to work with. You can turn me in to that person and use me as your pinata if you like. But keep in mind that most people don't want to be hated.

You really don't like being told what to do, do you?

Unfortunately unless you work for yourself, you are stuck with it. A job is what the business determines, not what you think it should be. In your case it has been determined that you need to lower your volume. I would suggest for the sake of your job that you do so.

Victor

Is their adequate sound reduction in the office? Would it be possible for you to be positioned such that you 'interfere' with the fewest people possible (the industrially deaf ones ).

newkie wrote: »

I'm too loud when using my regular speaking voice.

Have you ever heard "I'm on the train / bus / Luas"? I can't comment on your case, but many people actually raise their voices when talking on the phone. Some people even shout. Of course, none of this matters to the person on the far end as phones auto-adjust their volume. However, it can severely affect the people who have to listen to you directly.

It might be a useful exercise to record your voice and someone elses voice, on and off the phone and compare the volume.

Wolfe Tone

I suggest getting your hearing checked, it could be that your hearing is a bit weak and you speak louder than you think.

challengemaster

I have to say, the first thing I thought of with all the "you can talk louder on the phone without realising" comments was Trigger Happy TV and the guy with the phone

newkie wrote: »

I am getting sick and tired of being told I'm too loud when using my regular speaking voice.

newkie wrote: »

I will admit one thing I don't respect is if someone took it direct to my manager rather than talk to me about it.

By the sounds of it, it seems like they weren't really getting anywhere with you anytime you were told. "Getting sick and tired" of hearing something isn't from 2-3 times, so it seems like you've been told numerous times and there's been no resolution. If it's still happening after that, then it's not reasonable for them to continually ask you to keep your voice down, so going to the manager about it is the logical step to try get it resolved.

Just put yourself in anyone elses shoes, and replace the loud voice with something else that could cause distraction in the workplace, just so you have a clear perspective on this, and then think about it. If you confronted the person about the issue multiple times, and they continued, would you continue causing hassle for yourself by having to ask them to stop on a continual basis, or would you go to the manager to see if that might work.

Diddler1977

I don't think this is a legal issue.

It's a working issue.

You've been asked by your employer to amend your working practise. There is no issue here. You need to make changes.

You have said you would find it difficult to keep your voice down when you are on the phone. You need to look for support from your employer. Ask them to send you on a Communications Course. This may assist you in improving your office work practises.

Duke Leonal Felmet

I remember a guy I worked with, he was actually bellowing into the phone, such to the extent that everyone within his proximity would just look at each other in disbelief. He was a nice chap, but in the end, the manager had to tell him to keep it down. I left while he was still there, so not sure what happened.

It did make it hard to work, sometimes.