This whole Euro crash thing is our own fault

Rabidlamb

Oh, my local A&E doesn't have a 24 hour 6 person neurosurgery team, disgrace I say.
A manically depressed parent kills their kids, it's the states fault for not providing full-time physiological services.
Some foster kid grows up to be a junkie & ODs, how could social services have let this happen.

We are all guilty of demanding more & more from our public services & we encouraged our politicians to offer us more to win our favour.
If an election candidate spoke out against better services they'd be watching their transfers being divided up fairly early.

European & other first world nations have gotten themselves into this borrowing mess by attempting to appease all sections of society.
People have to realise you cannot legislate for every flaw in human nature.
Auction politics are as much a cause of today's crisis as the property bubble.
Democracy is flawed, the best system we have but still flawed.

Will we all be watching like hawks the next time a Finance Minister plays Santy on the Budget Day before an election or will we shout stop the next time a Bertie offers pay rises around the board.
Sure we will, we always learn from history :rolleyes:.

human repellent

I'd suggest a more appropriate forum if you want valid replies.

MungBean

human repellent wrote: »

I'd suggest a more appropriate forum if you want valid replies.

I'd suggest a valid argument if he wants valid replies. Its another fcukin "even when it was capitalism I knew it was socialism" type rant.

Rabidlamb wrote: »

European & other first world nations have gotten themselves into this borrowing mess by attempting to appease all sections of society.

Wouldnt have anything to do with people trying to get rich no ?

Snakeblood

MungBean wrote: »

I'd suggest a valid argument if he wants valid replies. Its another fcukin "even when it was capitalism I knew it was socialism" type rant.



Wouldnt have anything to do with people trying to get rich no ?

It seems more like a 'we want to feed from the trough so we don't care what happens as a consequence' type rant. Not top class as rants go though.

themadchef

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Will we all be watching like hawks the next time a Finance Minister plays Santy on the Budget Day before an election or will we shout stop the next time a Bertie offers pay rises around the board.
Sure we will, we always learn from history :rolleyes:.

Santy on budget day....

Well i suppose they all have big guts, red faces, huge bags and leave a trail of shít behind them.

President ear bashing for the last 6 weeks now it's the budget turn... my fúcking ears are bleeding already. Just take the money already!

Da_Doc

Agree with a some points of the OP but I hope we can expect a better health service that the one provided now.

The problem OP,is that people keep demanding more and more public services without wanting to pay more taxes. This was possible when huge amounts of our taxes were coming from the housing market. Since the crash this portion tax income has collapsed and our tax base was too narrow to cover the shortfall.

If we want the level of services and social welfare that were provided during the housing bubble then we have to expect increased taxation. Simple as. I just hope the government can bring these in in a fair manner. However with a 100 euro household charge and increased vat proposals, i am not convinced they will be equitable. These charges will hit people on lower income greater than those on higher so unless they have other plans to take a higher contribution from higher income households I fear that the next budget will be seen as unfair.

Dudess

Collective responsibility is such tripe - the ultimate blame game.
We/our - two of the most lazily used words ever.

Da_Doc

Dudess wrote: »

Collective responsibility is such tripe - the ultimate blame game.
We/our - two of the most lazily used words ever.

Unfortunately dudess we are collectively responsible for government expenditure being covered by government income.

I 100% agree that we are not collectively responsible for the situation that we find ourselves in. Successive FF budgets made our tax income so heavily reliant on the property market and while inflating the bubble. This along with low interest rates set by the ECB ensured a housing bubble in ireland and the following crash. The ordinary man and woman in ireland are not experts on fiscal policy and couldnt have foreseen this.

Due to these past failings WE are going to have to accept higher taxation to maintain OUR level of services. This may seem unfair but in reality during to boom years taxation was too low to sustain the economy

Freddie59

Dudess wrote: »

Collective responsibility is such tripe - the ultimate blame game.
We/our - two of the most lazily used words ever.

Yep. Some arrogant twat from Cork was on the Ray Darcy show last week, proclaiming that 'all the people moaning at the minute are the ones who borrowed all the money'.

What logic.:rolleyes:

Tonyandthewhale

Rabidlamb wrote: »

A manically depressed parent kills their kids, it's the states fault for not providing full-time physiological services.

You think the kids would have been able to get away if they had better physio? Seems like a case of treating the symptom rather than the core problem to me.

Freddie59

Da_Doc wrote: »

Agree with a some points of the OP but I hope we can expect a better health service that the one provided now.

The problem OP,is that people keep demanding more and more public services without wanting to pay more taxes. This was possible when huge amounts of our taxes were coming from the housing market. Since the crash this portion tax income has collapsed and our tax base was too narrow to cover the shortfall.

If we want the level of services and social welfare that were provided during the housing bubble then we have to expect increased taxation. Simple as. I just hope the government can bring these in in a fair manner. However with a 100 euro household charge and increased vat proposals, i am not convinced they will be equitable. These charges will hit people on lower income greater than those on higher so unless they have other plans to take a higher contribution from higher income households I fear that the next budget will be seen as unfair.

That's all fine in theory. But you really need to tackle this at all levels. Enda was on last week, ranting about how we couldn't leave Civil Servants go. Why not!!

The place is bankrupt. Civil service/PS jobs need to be shed, the rates reduced, and contracts torn up. Until that happens we will continue with an €18Bn deficit.

When you sort the above then you can tear into SW fraud.

Freddie59

Da_Doc wrote: »

Unfortunately dudess we are collectively responsible for government expenditure being covered by government income.

How so?

ScumLord

Freddie59 wrote: »

How so?

It's a democracy, the people are in charge. When things go wrong the people in charge ultimately have to take responsibility. But most people in charge of democracy's are completely ignorant of the operation of their country and act more like fat lords expecting everything to appear at their doorstep while having no intention of even beginning to understand what's involved in getting those services to their doorstep.

Da_Doc

Freddie59 wrote: »

How so?

Maybe you misunderstand me, i dont mean we are collectively responsible for setting fiscal policy. I mean that if the government doesnt take in enough taxation to cover public services and SW then its us who will be affected by it therefore its our problem. We as a nation have to pay for the services we demand.

I agree that reform of the public sector is needed. There is huge waste in government departments. If you are stating that frontline staff such as teachers, gardai, nurses need to be let go or face further pay cuts, then I completely disagree. These services are already streched to the last and each profession has faced large reductions in take home pay.

Edit
Also I never mentioned social welfare fraud, i just said that if we want it at the current level then we have to expect tax increases

AnonoBoy

"I didn't no nuthin' to nobody boss. It weren't me what done it - I didn't even have a bank account sure - how could it have been my fault, wha?"