535D Swirl Flaps

The Bishop Basher

I’m having the swirl flaps removed on my 535 this week. I’m just wondering, do they have to be replaced with blanking plates or can you just take them out and leave them open ? I’m reluctant to pay the €500 for the upgraded manifold from BMW when I’ve been told it’s prone to the same issues.

Thanks.

Matt Simis

You have to blank them of course, what effect do you think leaving gaping holes in the intake will have on the car!? How have you booked this in with someone without this coming up already?

I took them out of my mothers 535d already and replaced them with a set I got on eBay (billet aluminium, with rubber seals, lightweight and perfect fit). Set cost like £80 and came with big and small sizes (only big needed afaik).


On that topic if anyone wants to buy the small flap set let me know I still have them (new and used obviously).

The Bishop Basher

Matt Simis wrote: »

You have to blank them of course, what effect do you think leaving gaping holes in the intake will have on the car!? How have you booked this in with someone without this coming up already?

That was the point of my question. My indy mechanic, whose never done a bad job or let me down in any way, was speaking to his contacts in BMW. They advised a replacement manifold or just leave them out.

My only concern with leaving them out is failing an emissions test at the NCT at idle.

Did you add new ones or blanking plates and if they are new ones can you be relatively sure they won't fail either ?

Cheers for your help.

Would it even start with holes in the inlet manifold? A petrol wouldn't anyway, dunno about the diesel, suppose it would.

Nissan doctor

They will surely have ment that you can just remove the flaps from your manifold rather then buying a new one. I couldn't believe that your mechanic is wondering can the manifold be left with 6 gaping holes in it!!
I doubt the engine would even run!

The blanking plates should look like these:

aristotle25

What year is your 535d, I thought I read that the facelift LCI model (from about early 2007 onwards) had this swirl flaps issue fixed?

challengemaster

Swanner wrote: »

That was the point of my question. My indy mechanic, whose never done a bad job or let me down in any way, was speaking to his contacts in BMW. They advised a replacement manifold or just leave them out.

My only concern with leaving them out is failing an emissions test at the NCT at idle.

Did you add new ones or blanking plates and if they are new ones can you be relatively sure they won't fail either ?

Cheers for your help.

The whole idea behind putting in blanking plates is "if they're not there, they can't fail"

AFAIK around 2005 BMW upgraded the swirl flap design, making them bigger but there's still plenty of reports of them being ingested. If they're removed, then at least you know you've nothing to worry about.

Obviously if you take them out, you do have to put in blanks. Big holes in the manifold = no no.

As for emissions - they have no effect. What the swirl flaps do, is they're linked to a servo that opens/closes them. This operates in coordination with the ABS system, effectively to cut down engine power during heavy braking. In normal conditions, they're left open, so would have absolutely no effect on emissions for the NCT.

This is the place most used for ordering blanking plates
http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/?page_id=155

It sounds like your indy mechanic doesn't know what he's on about...

The Bishop Basher

Thanks everyone...

It's a 06 so is defiantely affected by this issue.

In fairness to my mechanic, he's not sure and he's honest about it. He had one in before, where the swirl flaps were ingested during an NCT, and he sent it to BMW as he knew it required a full rebuild and he hadn't the time.

I'll order the blanking plates now.

Cheers,

Swanner.

The Bishop Basher

One more quick question...

Does adding the blanking plates require any change to the ECU ?

Gumbo

Swanner wrote: »

Thanks everyone...

It's a 06 so is defiantely affected by this issue.

In fairness to my mechanic, he's not sure and he's honest about it. He had one in before, where the swirl flaps were ingested during an NCT, and he sent it to BMW as he knew it required a full rebuild and he hadn't the time.

I'll order the blanking plates now.

Cheers,

Swanner.

Where are you based?
Theres an indy in Dublin that supply and fit the blanking plates to the 6Cycl engines for €100

Swanner wrote: »

One more quick question...

Does adding the blanking plates require any change to the ECU ?

nope, should be oakey dokey

The Bishop Basher

Cheers. I've ordered them now anyway.

Cheers everyone

TheBazman

aristotle25 wrote: »

What year is your 535d, I thought I read that the facelift LCI model (from about early 2007 onwards) had this swirl flaps issue fixed?

Mine is an LCI 2007 with 175k kms - didnt remove them and no issues so far....

Matt Simis

Swanner wrote: »

In fairness to my mechanic, he's not sure and he's honest about it. He had one in before, where the swirl flaps were ingested during an NCT, and he sent it to BMW as he knew it required a full rebuild and he hadn't the time.

Ask your mechanic just how he thinks the ECU will monitor air when there is now a massive air intake hole downstream from the MAF..

BavarianCare

Matt Simis wrote: »

Swanner wrote: »

In fairness to my mechanic, he's not sure and he's honest about it. He had one in before, where the swirl flaps were ingested during an NCT, and he sent it to BMW as he knew it required a full rebuild and he hadn't the time.

Ask your mechanic just how he thinks the ECU will monitor air when there is now a massive air intake hole downstream from the MAF..

This is misleading. You don't introduce a 'massive air intake hole' by doing this job. In addition, blanking plates are not required.
What happens is that you remove the possibility of the ECU diverting main flow of air from lower to upper ports of the manifold. It is for emissions only under certain conditions.
It has NOTHING to do with ABS or engine braking.

It is 100% recommended to remove prior to 2006. Even some dealers are doing it believe it or not...

Fishtits

Thread drift.

535d, debadged, it has to be the ultimate Q car... a rocketship on wheels.

I hate yez...

PS do they do a Touring vesion?

unkel

BMWcare wrote: »

This is misleading. You don't introduce a 'massive air intake hole' by doing this job. In addition, blanking plates are not required.
What happens is that you remove the possibility of the ECU diverting main flow of air from lower to upper ports of the manifold. It is for emissions only under certain conditions.

So what are you saying? You can just remove the swirl flaps and that's it? Any links to this info?

-Corkie-

Fishtits wrote: »

Thread drift.

535d, debadged, it has to be the ultimate Q car... a rocketship on wheels.

I hate yez...

PS do they do a Touring vesion?

Ultimate sleeper..

Would this do ya...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201137415560589/sort/pricedesc/usedcars/body-type/estate/fuel-type/diesel/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/model/5_series/make/bmw/page/1/keywords/535d/radius/1500/postcode/sw193rg?logcode=p

BTW did anyone else get a little chuckle when they seen BMW 535D in the thread title......

Nissan doctor

BMWcare wrote: »

This is misleading. You don't introduce a 'massive air intake hole' by doing this job. In addition, blanking plates are not required.
What happens is that you remove the possibility of the ECU diverting main flow of air from lower to upper ports of the manifold. It is for emissions only under certain conditions.
It has NOTHING to do with ABS or engine braking.

It is 100% recommended to remove prior to 2006. Even some dealers are doing it believe it or not...

As per my picture earlier in this thread, the swirl flaps are about 1 cm away from where the manifold joins the cylinder head, your saying that blanking plates aren't needed, so you can remove the swirl flaps and leave 6 holes right before the intake valves??

rebel.ranter

I have read a forum thread somewhere where the guy just broke off the pieces of the swirl flaps (flaps & screws), so they didn't need to buy blanking plates. Maybe this is the mismatch in what everybody is talking about?

Nissan doctor

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I have read a forum thread somewhere where the guy just broke off the pieces of the swirl flaps (flaps & screws), so they didn't need to buy blanking plates. Maybe this is the mismatch in what everybody is talking about?

I suppose you could just break off the plastic flaps and leave the rest of the original piece in place, maybe thats what some are talking about, but for a couple of euro for the proper plates its got to be a neater job.

Bearcat

I have come to the conclusion modern diesels are a curse.......granted they sip diesel but by jazuz as they get older their maintenance costs just go through the roof. I've had two 530ds......immense cars. As they got older .....clogged manifolds, manky swirl flaps I replaced, maf's, clogged egrs, the list never ends.

I sold my m sport recently, best car I've ever owned but couldn't resist the cash. I now possibly looking at an older 530i.....same tax,yeah likes the petrol but you can pick bigger engined petrols for an absolute song now.

I just think the country has gone mad on the diesel hype with out reflecting on the costs associated with them as they get older.

Rant over.....

rebel.ranter

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I suppose you could just break off the plastic flaps and leave the rest of the original piece in place, maybe thats what some are talking about, but for a couple of euro for the proper plates its got to be a neater job.

If I had a diesel BMW I would go for the blanking plates for sure. I agree with the above post that diesels have hidden maintenance costs. All I hear from friends & family that have diesels are stories about:
- failed turbos
- blocked EGR valves
- faulty injectors
- lift pumps failing
- swirl flaps being ingested
- clogged manifolds
- sediment tanks full

The list goes on, plus it is only a matter of time before diesel price per litre overtakes petrol.

Nissan doctor

rebel.ranter wrote: »

If I had a diesel BMW I would go for the blanking plates for sure. I agree with the above post that diesels have hidden maintenance costs. All I hear from friends & family that have diesels are stories about:
- failed turbos
- blocked EGR valves
- faulty injectors
- lift pumps failing
- swirl flaps being ingested
- clogged manifolds
- sediment tanks full

The list goes on, plus it is only a matter of time before diesel price per litre overtakes petrol.

In defence of diesels though, The vast majority of problems they suffer are down to incorrect use, poor servicing, sh1te quality diesel, and people not having a clue how to look after a turbo.

Although I agree that in general though(as all parts eventually wear out), their major replacement engine parts tend to be very expensive compared to equivalent petrol engines.

the merchant

What do you mean by looking after a turbo? Other than changing the breather that is.

Bearcat

And we also have a problem in this country with manky diesel.....the place is awash with the stuff. I know lads putting all types of sh!te into their cars just be penny wise, euro foolish.

TheBazman

How many people have actually heard of problems being caused by leaving swirl flaps in? Is there not hysteria with people either rushing to get them removed, or other people saying that they wouldn't touch a modern diesel because of them?

Bearcat

The swirlflap issue has been flagged with pre 05 bmws where once ingested required a new engine in many cases......there has been incidents post 05 but we only hear about the ones that have failed not the millions that continue to motor on. When I took took off the manifold of my 03 530d I was shocked at how much crud was caked into it. In many cases folk don't bother with blanking plates but buy a brand new manifold and off they go. Expensive fixes though.

mickdw

TheBazman wrote: »

How many people have actually heard of problems being caused by leaving swirl flaps in? Is there not hysteria with people either rushing to get them removed, or other people saying that they wouldn't touch a modern diesel because of them?

I've heard of a couple of 320d locally that needed new engines after eating swirl flap screws.
There must be hundreds of cases nationally

Nissan doctor

the merchant wrote: »

What do you mean by looking after a turbo? Other than changing the breather that is.

Changing the breather filters(where fitted), regular oil changes with the correct oil and regularly checking oil levels is the main part of it, coming under maintenance.

However on turbo charged cars, its also very important that the oil is fully up to temperature before you start boosting and after a long motorway/on boost drive letting the turbo spool down for maybe 30 seconds before switching the car off.

challengemaster

TheBazman wrote: »

How many people have actually heard of problems being caused by leaving swirl flaps in? Is there not hysteria with people either rushing to get them removed, or other people saying that they wouldn't touch a modern diesel because of them?

I had mine done yesterday, and there was another 320cd in just before me. I watched that before mine went in

When he got the manifold off, checked the swirl flaps - one was missing, and another one was mangled / jammed at an awkward angle, and just about ready to let loose.

Cylinder was roughly checked to make sure the missing flap wasn't in there, which it didn't seem to be surprisingly, and the engine was running fine... very strange altogether. But as soon as the mangled flap got taken out it snapped off. Lucky fecker only has the car two weeks and all.

His car had 119,000 miles on it, mine has 132,000 yet all of my swirl flaps were in good condition when they were removed. Goes to show you can't predict it.