HSE Sick Leave Arrangements

swordofislam

I am not someone who engages in knee jerk 'bashing' public sector workers.
I would be grateful of someone could confirm or deny the following claim.

If you are on ordinary leave (holiday) in the HSE and you get sick such that you have to go to the doctor you can get a sick cert.
This sick cert will then be used to mark a proportion of your holiday as 'sick leave' and you will get your holidays back to be used later in the year.

Anyone ever heard of this?

MagicMarker

AFAIK that's true for anyone, public or private.

daltonmd

swordofislam wrote: »

I am not someone who engages in knee jerk 'bashing' public sector workers.
I would be grateful of someone could confirm or deny the following claim.

If you are on ordinary leave (holiday) in the HSE and you get sick such that you have to go to the doctor you can get a sick cert.
This sick cert will then be used to mark a proportion of your holiday as 'sick leave' and you will get your holidays back to be used later in the year.

Anyone ever heard of this?

If you take annual leave and are sick and go to the doctor then yes you can convert that to sick leave.

Now while some people will no doubt have an issue with this, it is pretty much like claiming the dole and then being sick, in reality you should transfer to illness benefit because if you are sick you are not available for work.

The issue maybe you are asking is this abused. Now this is a sticky question because then you have to ask if the Doctor is classing people as sick when they are not.

seamus

Yep, as Magicmarker says this is correct for all types of employment. Annual leave cannot be used to cover sickness absences, and if you are sick while on annual leave, then you are entitled to those annual leave days back to be used later on in the same year.

However, this does not mean that you get "free" annual leave. Your employer is entitled to treat those days like any other sick days, and insist on a doctor's cert, or refuse to pay you, or take it out of a "sick allowance", or whatever the policy is in your workplace.

Vego

Yeah its the same for everyone if your sick on your holidays gt a cert and reclaim the hols.....Only thing is the public sector prob get paid for the sick leave and the hols where as joe soap wont be paid for the sick leave

RichardAnd

This was available when I worked in the department of justice so I don't think it's a HSE thing. However, my current private employer also has such a rule so it's not unique to the public service.

anymore

This does , I beleive also apply on the private sector - I forget which pce of legislation it applies to - Google it for further info.

Son Of A Vidic

MagicMarker wrote: »

AFAIK that's true for anyone, public or private.

OP, MagicMarker is correct with this.

murphaph

Vego wrote: »

Yeah its the same for everyone if your sick on your holidays gt a cert and reclaim the hols.....Only thing is the public sector prob get paid for the sick leave and the hols where as joe soap wont be paid for the sick leave

Depends on the employer. SMEs often can't afford to pay sick pay. Large multinationals generally cover it to a point.

Vego

but all of the public sector do dont they ?

swordofislam

Thanks all very interesting.

RichardAnd

Vego wrote: »

but all of the public sector do dont they ?

As far as I know, yes they do.

seamus

Vego wrote: »

but all of the public sector do dont they ?

Sick pay isn't something I'd be concerned about. Most employers pay some form of sick pay for short asbences (1 day to a week). In my experience, it's more rare that an employer doesn't pay someone for a short absence of a couple of days.

If you want to make this into a public-sector bashing thread, the issue there around sick leave is the idea that each employee is "entitled" to a certain number of paid sick days per year. In many PS departments, sick leave is seen as an extension to your annual leave and most employee will "take" their "entitlement" of 5 days (or whatever) sick days every year, regardless of whether they're sick or not.

Vego

seamus wrote: »

Sick pay isn't something I'd be concerned about. Most employers pay some form of sick pay for short asbences (1 day to a week). In my experience, it's more rare that an employer doesn't pay someone for a short absence of a couple of days.

If you want to make this into a public-sector bashing thread, the issue there around sick leave is the idea that each employee is "entitled" to a certain number of paid sick days per year. In many PS departments, sick leave is seen as an extension to your annual leave and most employee will "take" their "entitlement" of 5 days (or whatever) sick days every year, regardless of whether they're sick or not.

Nope in all my years working I have never been paid for a sick day ....If im out I dont get paid so even if I dont feel great have to go in

anymore

swordofislam wrote: »

I am not someone who engages in knee jerk 'bashing' public sector workers.
I would be grateful of someone could confirm or deny the following claim.

If you are on ordinary leave (holiday) in the HSE and you get sick such that you have to go to the doctor you can get a sick cert.
This sick cert will then be used to mark a proportion of your holiday as 'sick leave' and you will get your holidays back to be used later in the year.

Anyone ever heard of this?

Far more imprtant is the unofficial 'annual sick leave' which HSE employess take. I had been skeptical about this until I was told it was true by an acquaintence working for the HSE - I had enquired about thier health after finding out they had been out sick. So unfortunately it is not an urban myth.

monkeypants

All four companies that I have worked for have had such a policy. I've never had to explore it any further though.

swordofislam

This wasn't intended to be a public sector bashing thread. It has been established that all salaried workers have this right.
Anyone who is a permanent employee and doesn't get paid for sick days needs to take a look in the mirror and ring the citizens advice bureau.
This is not in and of itself a public private sector issue.

Vego

swordofislam wrote: »

This wasn't intended to be a public sector bashing thread. It has been established that all salaried workers have this right.
Anyone who is a permanent employee and doesn't get paid for sick days needs to take a look in the mirror and ring the citizens advice bureau.
This is not in and of itself a public private sector issue.

Huh ? unless its in your contract you dont get paid for sick days end of

anymore

1. In general an employee has no right under employment law in Ireland to be paid while on sick leave. Consequently, it is at the discretion of the employer to decide his/her own policy on sick pay and sick leave, subject to the employee’s contract or terms of employment. Under Section 3 of the Terms of Employment (Information) Act 1994 and 2001 an employer must provide an employee with a written statement of terms of employment within two months of the commencement of the employment. One of the terms referred to in this Act on which the employer must provide information is the terms or conditions relating to incapacity for work due to sickness or injury.
If you have no entitlement in your terms and conditions of employment to pay during sick leave, you may apply for Illness Benefit if you have enough social insurance contributions. If you do not have enough social insurance contributions, you should contact the Department of Social Protection's representative (formerly the Community Welfare Officer) at your local health centre who will assess your situation.
If you are entitled to sick pay, your employer will probably require you to sign over any Illness Benefit payment from the Department of Social Protection to your employer for as long as the sick pay continues

2.
Sick leave during public holidays

If you are a full time worker who is on sick leave during a public holiday, you have an entitlement to time off work for the public holiday(s) you missed. If you are a part-time worker on sick leave during a public holiday, you would be entitled to time off work for the public holiday provided you worked for your employer at least 40 hours in the previous 5-week period.
However you lose your entitlement to public holidays if you have been on sick leave for more than 26 weeks in the case of ordinary illness and 56 weeks in the case of an occupational accident.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

Of course the unofficial ' sick leave holidays' in the HSE does not I understand have any statutory basisis and is a seperate issue from sock leave as such.

daltonmd

anymore wrote: »

Far more imprtant is the unofficial 'annual sick leave' which HSE employess take. I had been skeptical about this until I was told it was true by an acquaintence working for the HSE - I had enquired about thier health after finding out they had been out sick. So unfortunately it is not an urban myth.

Unofficial sick leave? Meaning what exactly, if you don't mind. Thanks

anymore

daltonmd wrote: »

Unofficial sick leave? Meaning what exactly, if you don't mind. Thanks

Taking sick leave when you are not sick.

daltonmd

anymore wrote: »

Taking sick leave when you are not sick.

It's an issue in some departments alright. I wouldn't judge the whole PS on this though. It is always the case that it is abuses of this nature screw it up for genuine frontline PS workers.

anymore

daltonmd wrote: »

It's an issue in some departments alright. I wouldn't judge the whole PS on this though. It is always the case that it is abuses of this nature screw it up for genuine frontline PS workers.

I am not applying it right through the PS but I now accpet it is a serious problem in the HSE because I have seen how it has affected some users of HSE services- as I said before I had thought it maybe exaggerated but the evidence I have seen says it is very real and it affects HSE services.