Advice re. licence renewal/presenting at garda station

pog it

A few days ago I got stopped by a Garda and I didn't have my licence with me at the time. I have to present it in my local station within 10 days and when I got home to look for it I discovered that it had expired in 2010.

I had renewed it in 2009 and really naively didn't check it since, and had presumed it was valid for 3 years. It was a really stupid mistake but it was genuine (whether or not that matters, I don't think it will, a mistake like that is what it is). It was my 3rd learner permit (provisional).

To renew this licence now I have to get a booking confirmation of my driving test, and while I am going to apply for that first thing in the morning, I'm afraid that I won't get the licence back in time to have it to bring into the garda station within the next 10 days.

So I'm wondering if I am better off bringing the current licence that I have, and explain to them, or to apply for the driving test, and if I get confirmation of a test/cancellation, etc. to apply for the renewal and present the certificate from the motor taxation office confirming I've applied?

I really would appreciate any advice from Gardaí. This is the first time this has happened to me and I've never got a point, or anything before, so I'm extremely stressed and worried over it.

Thanks for any help.

scoobymunster

Were you driving accompanied or unaccompanied? your best going to the Garda with the expired license and plead mercy, your going to get a fine yes but nobody except the Garda concerned can tell you what exactly they will do about it.

TylerIE

Bring the current [old] learner permit in, present it, ask the guard you present it to to note the circumstances on the file (you hadnt realised it expired, etc). Advise him to note that you will present your new permit as soon as you get it.

DO NOT wait until you get your new learner permit as it could be outside the ten days and a summons could likely be en route! Furthermore your renewed learner permit will have a START date that will be this week, so it wont cover you for when you were stopped the Guard, where as if you produce your old learner permit it will show that you at least had one in the past..

If you were asked to produce your insurance make sure that it covers you - most have a clause stating something like "provided that such driver holds a license to drive the vehicle, OR having held such a license is not disqualified from holding...".

Did you have an accompanying driver with you and did you tell the Guard you only had a learner permit? If the guard summonses you for driving without a license then at least you can show you complied fully with the follow-up, which depending on the judge may make a significant difference.

pog it

TylerIE wrote: »

Did you have an accompanying driver with you and did you tell the Guard you only had a learner permit? If the guard summonses you for driving without a license then at least you can show you complied fully with the follow-up, which depending on the judge may make a significant difference.

I didn't have an accompanying driver, no. Nor did I have the L plates up. I was honest with the garda, told him it was a provisional licence (learner permit) but at the time I didn't know it had expired. I explained that I don't drive too often and didn't have anyone to accompany me that day.

Thanks so much for your advice, re. presenting the licence I currently have. It was such a stupid oversight on my part, I can't believe in fact that I was such an idiot about it. I'm applying for my driving test now. Would it be any help if I show the Garda that I have applied for the driving test? ( I have to do driving test in order to get renewed licence).

Is there any chance at all that the Garda will see that it was a genuine oversight, and not give me a fine/court summons?

guil

you can't do the test without a learner permit, bring the proof of booking to the tax office to get a permit issued

pog it

guil wrote: »

you can't do the test without a learner permit, bring the proof of booking to the tax office to get a permit issued

I'll be doing that after I go to the Garda station with my current licence alright. I'm aware I can't do the test without a learner permit.

Hoping and praying I'm not summoned to court.

TylerIE

pog it wrote: »

I didn't have an accompanying driver, no. Nor did I have the L plates up. I was honest with the garda, told him it was a provisional licence (learner permit) but at the time I didn't know it had expired. I explained that I don't drive too often and didn't have anyone to accompany me that day.

Thanks so much for your advice, re. presenting the licence I currently have. It was such a stupid oversight on my part, I can't believe in fact that I was such an idiot about it. I'm applying for my driving test now. Would it be any help if I show the Garda that I have applied for the driving test? ( I have to do driving test in order to get renewed licence).

Is there any chance at all that the Garda will see that it was a genuine oversight, and not give me a fine/court summons?

It cant really be called a "genuine oversight" - I can imagine it being viewed as negligence.

If you had a full licence that had expired for a short while I can see the guard not bothering but taking the whole picture (learner permit, no L Plates, no accompanying driver, permit actually expired - by 9+ months) I wouldnt be holding out for them dismissing it. Its possible of course.


Show the test application when ya go with your learner permit one of the times and the guard who takes your details will note it...

If it is pursued its not just a straightforward fine - there is no facility for dealing with no license offences through the fixed charge system, if the guard pursues it it will be dealt with by way of summons to court, at which point you may then get a fine.

Eru

you cant be insured if you have no license so you should be prosecuted. Why no L plates? Why were you alone? Why on your 3rd one? Its a learner permit not a drivers license, take the damn test already!

pog it

Eru wrote: »

you cant be insured if you have no license so you should be prosecuted. Why no L plates? Why were you alone? Why on your 3rd one? Its a learner permit not a drivers license, take the damn test already!

I started this thread for advice, not pontification. So move on if you can't give me constructive advice to meet the situation I am in.

Obviously, I've learned my lesson.

pog it

TylerIE wrote: »

It cant really be called a "genuine oversight" - I can imagine it being viewed as negligence.

If you had a full licence that had expired for a short while I can see the guard not bothering but taking the whole picture (learner permit, no L Plates, no accompanying driver, permit actually expired - by 9+ months) I wouldnt be holding out for them dismissing it. Its possible of course.


Show the test application when ya go with your learner permit one of the times and the guard who takes your details will note it...

If it is pursued its not just a straightforward fine - there is no facility for dealing with no license offences through the fixed charge system, if the guard pursues it it will be dealt with by way of summons to court, at which point you may then get a fine.

You're right, it was negligent of me, and I have no doubt that I'm going to suffer the consequences. Which I will. Thanks for your feedback, it's been a good help to me.

starfish12

My sister was stopped last week (in Dublin 15 ) driving alone without L plates on her second permit, and has been told to expect a fine of €2,000 - €1,000 for driving unaccompanied, and €1,000 for not displaying her L plates, was her first time to be caught/stopped etc. but she was told that they've clamped down on it, in her area at least, so they could fine you for that, regardless of the licence.

pog it

starfish12 wrote: »

My sister was stopped last week (in Dublin 15 ) driving alone without L plates on her second permit, and has been told to expect a fine of €2,000 - €1,000 for driving unaccompanied, and €1,000 for not displaying her L plates, was her first time to be caught/stopped etc. but she was told that they've clamped down on it, in her area at least, so they could fine you for that, regardless of the licence.

Yep, good chance they will. The guard himself told me that the government is trying to get in as much tax as possible and are as you said, clamping down on drivers who are caught.

Like I said I'm not going to stress about this any further. I've applied for my test, got my expired licence to show them and will be asking for mercy. If not, I'll just take what ever the punishment is. It's not the end of the world. I have my health.

pog it

Hi again,

When I go in to the garda station is it possible to request privacy to discuss the issue? Just in case there are other people behind me in the queue/ in the waiting room?

Also, I was stopped in Dublin initially, but chose my local garda station to present my licence. Does that mean that any court proceedings would take place in Dublin? Or would it be the court in the same jurisdiction as the garda station?

My chances are 50/50 of court I think so I'd be really grateful to find out.

Thanks again for the help. It's getting my through this.

Mikros

If you go to court it will take place in the District Court area where the offence took place.

pog it

Mikros wrote: »

If you go to court it will take place in the District Court area where the offence took place.

Thanks for that Mikros.

Do you know if I can ring them in advance to meet with a garda about it?

Or is it better to just show up and explain there and then?

Also, is it possible to ask to speak with the SuperIntendent does anyone know?

Mikros

I think you got the right advice above - head down to your local station with your existing expired licence and explain the situation. You need to do this or you will get a summons for not producing as requested. After that it will be up to the original guard who stopped you whether to prosecute you or not.

You can try getting in contact with him after if you want and show you have applied for a test etc. If you do end up in court it will help you in front of a judge to show you took steps to prevent it happening again. But at the end of the day the deed is done now so you will just have to take what comes. No point getting over worried about it now.

Also the superintendent is not going to get involved in something like this, it will simply be passed down to the guard in question. I'm sure its a big thing for you, but this happens day in day out and everyone has some excuse - no cynicism intended.

pog it

Thanks again, am going in tomorrow with everything to face the music.

Is there any chance that the Guards in my local station have any influence over this? I mean if they decided that they didn't want this to be pursued, could they tell the Guard that stopped me that I produced the necessary documents? Or do they have to give the Guard in question the full details about expiry date? I mean is there any chance they'd say, look this seems like a one-off, we're going to do this person a favour here, they've learned their lesson?

scoobymunster

Doubt that would ever happen. It's entirely up to the Guard who stopped you if this will go to Court or not. The Guards in your local station will simply pass on the details of all your documents to him/her. Just wait and see.

Eru

pog it wrote: »

I started this thread for advice, not pontification. So move on if you can't give me constructive advice to meet the situation I am in.

Obviously, I've learned my lesson.

Why would or should we give you constructive advise on how to avoid being prosecuted? You were acting the maggot and got caught. 3rd license for gods sake, whats that, 6 years with no test or worse again, failing the test? and were supposed to believe you havent been stopped and warned once in 6 years? that you didnt know to throw some L plates up?

I also thinking pointing out you had no insurance is pretty bloody good advise as you seemed to be unaware of that fact. Also, you will still be prosecuted for not producing your license even if you produce the old one as its expired. The demand is to produce a valid license not just any aul thing.

You want solid advise? Talk to the Garda before court starts, produce your valid license when you get it and your insurance. Produce your car prior to the court date and show the Garda that you have L plates, etc and admit your guilt in court. The Judge will slap you with a fine and a ban for no insurance and no license BUT less of a fine and less of a ban for holding your hands up and for not being caught again.

pog it

Eru wrote: »

You want solid advise? Talk to the Garda before court starts, produce your valid license when you get it and your insurance. Produce your car prior to the court date and show the Garda that you have L plates, etc and admit your guilt in court. The Judge will slap you with a fine and a ban for no insurance and no license BUT less of a fine and less of a ban for holding your hands up and for not being caught again.

Ban? You wish. It's a first offence.

And like I said, you haven't given any helpful advice to me, at all. So go to hell.

While you're at it, don't make any assumptions about the quality of my driving based on my not sitting a driving test. I have never had a tip or accident in my life and based on the driving I see on the roads I am in the top 10% of drivers on the roads, at least.

You're just typical of an ignorant person. I'd much rather have my current troubles than yours. You must have no life if this is the best you can come up with on boards.

pog it

Eru wrote: »

Why would or should we give you constructive advise on how to avoid being prosecuted? You were acting the maggot and got caught. 3rd license for gods sake, whats that, 6 years with no test or worse again, failing the test? and were supposed to believe you havent been stopped and warned once in 6 years? that you didnt know to throw some L plates up?

I also thinking pointing out you had no insurance is pretty bloody good advise as you seemed to be unaware of that fact. Also, you will still be prosecuted for not producing your license even if you produce the old one as its expired. The demand is to produce a valid license not just any aul thing.

You want solid advise? Talk to the Garda before court starts, produce your valid license when you get it and your insurance. Produce your car prior to the court date and show the Garda that you have L plates, etc and admit your guilt in court. The Judge will slap you with a fine and a ban for no insurance and no license BUT less of a fine and less of a ban for holding your hands up and for not being caught again.

P.S It's advice, not advise. Licence, not license. It's, not its.

scoobymunster

pog it wrote: »

You're just typical of an ignorant person. I'd much rather have my current troubles than yours. You must have no life if this is the best you can come up with on boards.

Attack the post, not the poster.

I know I'm not a mod but point still stands.

TylerIE

pog it wrote: »

Hi again,

When I go in to the garda station is it possible to request privacy to discuss the issue? Just in case there are other people behind me in the queue/ in the waiting room?

Also, I was stopped in Dublin initially, but chose my local garda station to present my licence. Does that mean that any court proceedings would take place in Dublin? Or would it be the court in the same jurisdiction as the garda station?

My chances are 50/50 of court I think so I'd be really grateful to find out.

Thanks again for the help. It's getting my through this.

Probably too late for you but for anyone else Id suggest theres no need to ask to discuss it privately. Producing a driving license is something that happens at least daily in most public offices. If they are that busy that there is a queue behind you then looking to take up their time in a side room wont be welcome when its a routine matter.

As someone else said, any prosecution would take place in the offence location.

Eru

pog it wrote: »

Ban? You wish. It's a first offence.

And like I said, you haven't given any helpful advice to me, at all. So go to hell.

While you're at it, don't make any assumptions about the quality of my driving based on my not sitting a driving test. I have never had a tip or accident in my life and based on the driving I see on the roads I am in the top 10% of drivers on the roads, at least.

You're just typical of an ignorant person. I'd much rather have my current troubles than yours. You must have no life if this is the best you can come up with on boards.

Ha, yeah yeah. You asked for advice not me mate but anyway, if your so relaxed about it then why on this site crying over it?

I never said you were a bad driver, I said you had 6 years to take the test and put some L plates up. What exactly is your excuse for driving for 6 years on a learner PERMIT with no qualified driver and no L plates? You can refuse to answer me but what exactly are you going to tell the Judge?

As for being banned, driving with no insurance AND no licence pal. It ain't a small fine I'm afraid especially adding in all the other factors. A Judge is unlikely to look on this and think your a lovable little scamp and instead impose the year ban which is the ban for a 1st offence or at the very least a decent sized fine, points and possible an endorsement. If it wasn't a first offence you could expect a longer ban. There are exceptions of course but based on what you posted, you would not be entitled to any allowance.

But hey, don't listen to me, just wait for the Judges decision.

goldie fish

pog it wrote: »

Ban? You wish. It's a first offence.

And like I said, you haven't given any helpful advice to me, at all. So go to hell.

While you're at it, don't make any assumptions about the quality of my driving based on my not sitting a driving test. I have never had a tip or accident in my life and based on the driving I see on the roads I am in the top 10% of drivers on the roads, at least.

You're just typical of an ignorant person. I'd much rather have my current troubles than yours. You must have no life if this is the best you can come up with on boards.

Don't mind him.
Go up to da judge and say that you didn't do nufink and anyway the cop wasna wearin his hat so he couldnt arrest you.
1000% you'll walk with a handshake from the Judge.

pog it

Eru wrote: »

Ha, yeah yeah. You asked for advice not me mate but anyway, if your so relaxed about it then why on this site crying over it?

I never said you were a bad driver, I said you had 6 years to take the test and put some L plates up. What exactly is your excuse for driving for 6 years on a learner PERMIT with no qualified driver and no L plates? You can refuse to answer me but what exactly are you going to tell the Judge?

As for being banned, driving with no insurance AND no licence pal. It ain't a small fine I'm afraid especially adding in all the other factors. A Judge is unlikely to look on this and think your a lovable little scamp and instead impose the year ban which is the ban for a 1st offence or at the very least a decent sized fine, points and possible an endorsement. If it wasn't a first offence you could expect a longer ban. There are exceptions of course but based on what you posted, you would not be entitled to any allowance.

But hey, don't listen to me, just wait for the Judges decision.

Ah you've got yourself all excited about this but what you don't know is what details the Garda took from me in my local Garda station. Not everyone thinks an expired licence is the end of the world

Also, how many L drivers do you think there are, right now, out there, on our roads, driving without L plates and accompanying driver? You must be really worried about this issue given your rants to me?

Hooch

pog it wrote: »

Ban? You wish. It's a first offence.

And like I said, you haven't given any helpful advice to me, at all. So go to hell.

While you're at it, don't make any assumptions about the quality of my driving based on my not sitting a driving test. I have never had a tip or accident in my life and based on the driving I see on the roads I am in the top 10% of drivers on the roads, at least.

You're just typical of an ignorant person. I'd much rather have my current troubles than yours. You must have no life if this is the best you can come up with on boards.

Attack the post, no the poster.

One warning and one only. No warning or full infraction next time.......trolling this forum = a temp ban

pog it wrote: »

P.S It's advice, not advise. Licence, not license. It's, not its.

Thought its my job to correct people and be pedantic???

scoobymunster wrote: »

Attack the post, not the poster.

I know I'm not a mod but point still stands.

No your not.......you know what to do when you have issue......dont post about it. Take this as an informal warning.

pog it

Hooch wrote: »

Thought its my job to correct people and be pedantic???

Point taken re. attack the 'post' rather than the poster.

But to be fair I had already stated that I didn't find Eru's comments helpful and yet they persisted in commenting on my thread. So, I thought if they felt like they could take the high ground on me, despite my explicitly saying it was unwanted, then I should have carte blanche to correct them on their mistakes.

Hooch

pog it wrote: »

Point taken re. attack the 'post' rather than the poster.

But to be fair I had already stated that I didn't find Eru's comments helpful and yet they persisted in commenting on my thread. So, I thought if they felt like they could take the high ground on me, despite my explicitly saying it was unwanted, then I should have carte blanche to correct them on their mistakes.

No one has carte blanche, not even me. They did not revert to insults.....being on the high ground, as you say, is not against the charter unless it was trolling.....they were not trolling.

Cuddlesworth

I probably wouldn't drive to the local station as well.

starfish12

Has the OP actually been to the station yet? am curious!

pog it

starfish12 wrote: »

Has the OP actually been to the station yet? am curious!

I stated in a previous post that I had... a few posts up.

pog it

Mods feel free to close this thread if you want. I got the help I needed.

Thanks to all who helped

angelfire9

Its funny....
I have a full Irish licence no penalty points no convictions
At the end of October I got a renewal reminder from the Motor Tax Office in Shannon telling me my licence was expiring on 04/11/11
And I brought the licence and the €25 fee to the local motor tax office on 03/11/11 to renew it
It will apparently take somewhere between 21-28 days for my new licence to issue
So I'm not driving (hubby is not enjoying chauffeur duties)

Yet here we have someone who has never passed a driving test driving unaccompanied with no L Plates no valid permit and therefore no insurance and feels entitled to take the moral high ground :rolleyes:

pog it

angelfire9 wrote: »

Its funny....
I have a full Irish licence no penalty points no convictions
At the end of October I got a renewal reminder from the Motor Tax Office in Shannon telling me my licence was expiring on 04/11/11
And I brought the licence and the €25 fee to the local motor tax office on 03/11/11 to renew it
It will apparently take somewhere between 21-28 days for my new licence to issue
So I'm not driving (hubby is not enjoying chauffeur duties)

Yet here we have someone who has never passed a driving test driving unaccompanied with no L Plates no valid permit and therefore no insurance and feels entitled to take the moral high ground :rolleyes:

Well there ya go, what goes around comes around eh

Odysseus

Is there not a clause in most insurance policies that states something along the lines of holding or being in a position to hold a licence? Mean that you are not prohibited from holding one; if that is the case the person is still insured.

Hooch

Odysseus wrote: »

Is there not a clause in most insurance policies that states something along the lines of holding or being in a position to hold a licence? Mean that you are not prohibited from holding one; if that is the case the person is still insured.

There is, however there is a European ruling that once a Learner permit was declared then the insurance company must insure up to third party as no false declaration was made. It changes in regards you declaring you have a full when you only have a learner.

pog it wrote: »

Mods feel free to close this thread if you want. I got the help I needed.

Thanks to all who helped

Done, thread locked on O/P request.

Turner

Now its closed

Hooch

Opps.....forgot my keys last time...thanks!!