Trinity or UL for engineering?

amymak

I'm absolutely certain I want to do engineering. I adore maths, particularily solving problems and I love the type of stuff we do in Applied Maths.
But I'm torn as to where I want to study it. I've narrowed it down to Trinity or Limerick.

Limerick has the coop, which is brilliant. They give you lots of opportunities to study abroad not just in Europe. (I'd love to study abroad, but it would have to be in a place where they speak English as I've spent 6 years dying to dispense of foreign languages.)
They also have plenty of student accomodation, which is definitely where I want to stay. (Stayed in it for a week last summer for math camp and it was really really nice.)
The main problem is the fact that that you have to choose which area of engineering you want to go into before you do the course, and I don't know which one I want to do yet, I'd really like to try them out and see which one suits.

In Trinity on the other hand, you do general engineering for 2 years, which would allow me to get a feel for which one I enjoy the most.
Also it's in Dublin, which is where I'd really love to study. In addition, it does seem to have a better reputation, but from what I've heard, that doesn't make any difference.
However, it doesn't do work experience, and the only studying abroad that's offered is to places in Europe where I'd have to speak a foreign language.
Also, accomodation is really competitive, so there's a good chance I'd end up in digs, which isn't fun from what I've heard.

So sorry that this is so long, but does anyone have any advice?

CatFromHue

If you look at the course structure for Aero, Bio Med, and Mech Eng in UL the same modules are taught in first year. I can't see it being a problem changing after first year to whatever one of these three you'd like. Aero Eng isn't offered in Trinity so remember that.

http://www3.ul.ie/courses/MechanicalEngineering.php
http://www3.ul.ie/courses/AeronauticalEngineering.php
http://www3.ul.ie/courses/BiomedicalEngineering.php

If you want to do Elec Eng it is a different situation though.

Co-op is very handy to have on your CV when you finish. You'll have that extra edge over other grads.

While Limerick isn't Dublin there are some benefits to studying down there. Your daily commute will be for the most part shorter. UL as you prob have seen for yourself is outside the city and like a village in itself so socially this has its benefits.

desertstorm

Final year Mech TCD here...

On working abroad, friend of mine was working in Frankfurt for the summer and told them flat out in the interview that he hadn't a word of German, however turns out it wasn't an issue and he still had a great time working there!

A group of the Mech's were also over in America working for the summer with different energy companies

Just because there's no work experience organised for you, doesn't mean it's not there at all - you just have to organize it yourself! that said, you're not on your own as most of the lecturers in the dept will help you out if theres an area you particularly want to work in. One lecturer alone organised work experience placements in America, Brazil and Germany which everyone had a chance to interview for (there was about 10 places overall I think? I think only 15 people actually tried interviewing for them too..). Then there's always the option of applying to do summer research in the department although it depends on who/what you're working for if you get paid or not!

Studying abroad theres two options, erasmus in france (but you've got to speak pretty good french) or unitech in europe (I don't think a foreign language is needed for this). Unitech sounds good (industrial experience + masters at the end of it all) but I didn't go for it

I have a good few friends either in student digs or on campus. While campus is nicer, you also have to deal with campus security which can be annoying at times (signing in friends who want to stay over/ stopping parties etc.) and it's also a lot more expensive. Plus as a first year, you don't actually live on campus, you live in Trinity hall which is a luas ride away. Living in student digs really depends on who your housemates are and location , most of the people I know who have moved out are in digs and love it!

I was the same about the general entry choice, went in wanting civil but as I said I'm now mech so I def think it was worth it! Although I'm pretty sure most colleges are relaxed about switching disciplines until at least 2nd year as 1st year courses are pretty much the same for all engineering courses - extensions of the leaving cert on physics/maths/applied maths?

If you want to travel and work, I have heard the name of Trinity travels well by the way, but can't confirm this!

I'm obviously biased, but I couldn't imagine doing it anywhere else really

arodabomb

Just seconding what desertstorm said about the name travelling well. You'll find most companies in Ireland wont care too much whether you went to UCD, TCD, DIT, UL etc (personal preferences aside). But as soon as you leave Ireland, generally speaking, Trinity has the bigger name (rightly or wrongly). Having studied/worked in France, Finland, Germany, USA, when I say Ireland, people tend to ask me if I went to Trinity. I've even been asked if UCD was part of Trinity. It has definitely got me in the door with a few places, thanks god for that Book of Kells.

The coop in UL is great though, the multinationals hire a lot of people back after their coop year, but like desertstorm said, you can just do this yourself, you just have to decide between that J1-San Diego break and a 3 month working summer.

I loved the general apect of Trinity, and I feel it has made me a better engineer. You do only do a small amount of each course in comparison to your final degree, but you atleast have a grounding in the other disciplines (which can be a godsend in this market, I know lots of Mechanical Engineers who are effectively Elecs or Civils).

It will cost you a lot more to do the TCD one unless you live at home though.

It's very hard to compare the two, since not many people will have experienced both.

Good luck with the choice.

amymak

It's really good to get an actual student's perspective and it's nice to know that work experience is a definite possibility in Trinity.
I'm still torn. I think what I'm going to do is go to the Trinity Open Day and have a look around campus, and then pick the campus in which I feel more at home...

Figerty

As a mechanical Engineer, have you made anything yet that you had to design or has it all been book learned?

desertstorm wrote: »

Final year Mech TCD here...

On working abroad, friend of mine was working in Frankfurt for the summer and told them flat out in the interview that he hadn't a word of German, however turns out it wasn't an issue and he still had a great time working there!

A group of the Mech's were also over in America working for the summer with different energy companies

Just because there's no work experience organised for you, doesn't mean it's not there at all - you just have to organize it yourself! that said, you're not on your own as most of the lecturers in the dept will help you out if theres an area you particularly want to work in. One lecturer alone organised work experience placements in America, Brazil and Germany which everyone had a chance to interview for (there was about 10 places overall I think? I think only 15 people actually tried interviewing for them too..). Then there's always the option of applying to do summer research in the department although it depends on who/what you're working for if you get paid or not!

Studying abroad theres two options, erasmus in france (but you've got to speak pretty good french) or unitech in europe (I don't think a foreign language is needed for this). Unitech sounds good (industrial experience + masters at the end of it all) but I didn't go for it

I have a good few friends either in student digs or on campus. While campus is nicer, you also have to deal with campus security which can be annoying at times (signing in friends who want to stay over/ stopping parties etc.) and it's also a lot more expensive. Plus as a first year, you don't actually live on campus, you live in Trinity hall which is a luas ride away. Living in student digs really depends on who your housemates are and location , most of the people I know who have moved out are in digs and love it!

I was the same about the general entry choice, went in wanting civil but as I said I'm now mech so I def think it was worth it! Although I'm pretty sure most colleges are relaxed about switching disciplines until at least 2nd year as 1st year courses are pretty much the same for all engineering courses - extensions of the leaving cert on physics/maths/applied maths?

If you want to travel and work, I have heard the name of Trinity travels well by the way, but can't confirm this!

I'm obviously biased, but I couldn't imagine doing it anywhere else really

cozzie55

amymak wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain I want to do engineering. I adore maths, particularily solving problems and I love the type of stuff we do in Applied Maths.
But I'm torn as to where I want to study it. I've narrowed it down to Trinity or Limerick.

Limerick has the coop, which is brilliant. They give you lots of opportunities to study abroad not just in Europe. (I'd love to study abroad, but it would have to be in a place where they speak English as I've spent 6 years dying to dispense of foreign languages.)
They also have plenty of student accomodation, which is definitely where I want to stay. (Stayed in it for a week last summer for math camp and it was really really nice.)
The main problem is the fact that that you have to choose which area of engineering you want to go into before you do the course, and I don't know which one I want to do yet, I'd really like to try them out and see which one suits.

In Trinity on the other hand, you do general engineering for 2 years, which would allow me to get a feel for which one I enjoy the most.
Also it's in Dublin, which is where I'd really love to study. In addition, it does seem to have a better reputation, but from what I've heard, that doesn't make any difference.
However, it doesn't do work experience, and the only studying abroad that's offered is to places in Europe where I'd have to speak a foreign language.
Also, accomodation is really competitive, so there's a good chance I'd end up in digs, which isn't fun from what I've heard.

So sorry that this is so long, but does anyone have any advice?

Just thought i'd throw a spanner in the works. You may have already ruled this out but If you really want to go to college in dublin then go for UCD. UCD now offers engineering as a five year programme. With a nine month work placement in 4th year. First year of engineering is also general so you get to pick your preferred type of engineering in 2nd year.
From the looks of your above post this seams to have the perfect credentials for you. Although you may have to worry about paying post grad fees for the 5th year.

amymak

cozzie55 wrote: »

Just thought i'd throw a spanner in the works. You may have already ruled this out but If you really want to go to college in dublin then go for UCD. UCD now offers engineering as a five year programme. With a nine month work placement in 4th year. First year of engineering is also general so you get to pick your preferred type of engineering in 2nd year.
From the looks of your above post this seams to have the perfect credentials for you. Although you may have to worry about paying post grad fees for the 5th year.

I have considered UCD, and it's a great university. The main problem with it for me is that it doesn't offer computer engineering, and that's one of my top options.
I will be doing a post grad hopefully where ever I go, as it's necessary if you want to get credited by Engineers Ireland without taking any extra exams.

desertstorm

Figerty wrote: »

As a mechanical Engineer, have you made anything yet that you had to design or has it all been book learned?

The majority of what we do in the course is theory, however I have had designs made in the workshop as well. Probably the main one was an MP3 docking station recently that I had made by technicians from plans

you also get some hands-on experience yourself too on a manual Mill, CNC Mill, Lathe, and doing some welding in 3rd year (working off plans though and not much more experience than if you did engineering for leaving cert)

How much workshop time you use also heavily depends on what your final year project is as well (obviously none if you're doing a modelling or simulation project). My project doesn't rely too heavily on anything being manufactured, maybe a custom camera mount at a later stage, however a friend of mine is working on a pretty cool prosthetic finger joint project where he has to advance a previous masters project and have new molds designed and made, select materials, do testing etc

Everyone gets taught at least 2 CAD packages (Auto-CAD and ProE, but a lot of people pick up Solidworks too) so it's pretty straight forward to get things made if you need it

Basically it's there if you want/need it, as well as a bunch of different test labs, just a lot of what I do would depend more on computers.

Figerty

Hi Desertstorm,
Thanks for your reply. It confirms nothing changes nor is it your fault.

I taught on a Masters programme in UL about 12 years ago. Two mechancial graduates from Trinity signed up for the M.Tech degree. Two of the soundest students I ever met.

I asked them why the signed up for an M. Tech in UL instead of M. Eng on offer in Trinity at the time.

They explained that the had only book learned everything and had been embarrased in interviews at their lack of practical interviews and expierance. The job market was as tough as it now. I was shocked at their description of the education the recieved. Brilliant at maths, but terrible on application of good practice in design to manufacture.

Simple things like application of tolearacnes, selection of matetials and processes. The subtlties of welding techniques, Identify cutting tools, processes and the abilty to design parts that wouldn't be laughed at by machinists. The old cliche of trying to machine square hole! (BTW the japaneese can now machine square holes).

I had to take them down to the workshops and go through each machine and identify it, and show them how it worked propery, not the simple exercises they had been shown.

So, I would very respectfully say to you that as a mechanical engineer, there is a lot more to Engineering that all that Trinity has to offer. UL isn't perfect by other means either!

I spent today in a major engineering company in the south. It takes them four years to bring a college engineer up the level of competence requried to get parts designed and made. The work they do isn't rocket science, just heavy engineering. They are resigned to this at this stage.

You sound like you love what you do and that bodes well for you, but have a look around while you still can to broaden the horizons.

From my last recollection of meeting the two Trinity Engineers they are flying now.

desertstorm wrote: »

The majority of what we do in the course is theory, however I have had designs made in the workshop as well. Probably the main one was an MP3 docking station recently that I had made by technicians from plans

you also get some hands-on experience yourself too on a manual Mill, CNC Mill, Lathe, and doing some welding in 3rd year (working off plans though and not much more experience than if you did engineering for leaving cert)

How much workshop time you use also heavily depends on what your final year project is as well (obviously none if you're doing a modelling or simulation project). My project doesn't rely too heavily on anything being manufactured, maybe a custom camera mount at a later stage, however a friend of mine is working on a pretty cool prosthetic finger joint project where he has to advance a previous masters project and have new molds designed and made, select materials, do testing etc

Everyone gets taught at least 2 CAD packages (Auto-CAD and ProE, but a lot of people pick up Solidworks too) so it's pretty straight forward to get things made if you need it

Basically it's there if you want/need it, as well as a bunch of different test labs, just a lot of what I do would depend more on computers.

Turbulent Bill

Figerty, I'd agree that the TCD mech isn't as hands-on as other courses, but it's just a consequence of the course design and where mechanical engineering is going. These days machining and basic manufacture is just a small part of the mechanical discipline, hence it gets small coverage - there's only so much that can be done in 4/5 years. There are plenty of machinist courses if you want to broaden your knowledge outside the degree.

I did Engineering for the Leaving and always loved the hands-on, practical aspects of design and manufacture, so it wasn't an issue for me. Few (if any) of my classmates now work in 'hard' mech engineering, not because they weren't capable but because there were better/other jobs available for their skills.

brownacid

If you are looking for competency in design the Trinity Manufacturing course does a fair bit, I just finished mech in tcd, loved it. The main research area of the mechanical department has moved away from manufacturing and practical design as a whole. Lately the department is a lot more bio focused with thermofluids coming in second.

I would have loved a bot more practicality in the course however but it was not to be. A good way to see of an engineering course is practical or theoretical is see what degree you are awarded. More often than not a BSc is awarded for a theoretical engineering degree whereas a B.eng is award for a degree with more practicality. The B.A.I. given by trinity equates to a BSc. Employers are aware of the difference and no matter how much practical work you do when you firts start a job you will always have to be held by the hand for a period of time

Delta Kilo

I did engineering in UL.

First off it is extremely theoretical, so if you are interested in going down the road of practical hands on engineering then perhaps engineering at University level isnt for you.

I agree with what the rest have to say, its just the nature of the job has changed. I think an engineers role is to save the company he/she works for money by developing practical, cost effective solutions and have the technical aptitude to be able to dispute costs of work being done by third partys. For instance where I work, I saved my company more than what I get paid per year by disputing the repair cost on a jet engine by a german company.

I have used less than 5% of what I learned in college since I graduated and my coursemates all said the same. You will be learning maths to a high level, thermodynamics and subjects such as that. You will most likely never use them again, but it trains your head to be analytical and the underlying concepts will remain there. University degrees are very much orientated to you going onto further education (in my opinion) rather than training you for a specific job.

And that brings me back to UL. There are huge vacancies for paid research programs in UL once you graduate. There is a lot of money invested in UL from the states and research organisations like the stokes institute, the wave energy research team etc all pluck the cream of the crop on an annual basis and pay you to conduct research for them, with you picking up a masters or a PhD in the process.

UL is a fantastic place for engineering and a fantastic college in general so I would recommend it. Just be sure of what you are getting into, it isnt all sunshine and lollipops, engineering requires hard work from the outset and is always challenging, but very worthwhile.

EDIT: UL now offers engineering choice, where you sample 4 types (Aero, mech, bio, CAED) and choose one to continue from second year. It was always this way with many people migrating after first year as first year is a common year between the 4. They now just have an official course title for it.

desertstorm

With respect to your experience, I'd have to question it's relevance given that this example happened 12 years ago - the course has gone through big changes in that time! (I've seen past papers dating back a good few years where you can see large differences)

Also I by no means expect an undergraduate course to give me the full scope of any subject, and to be honest the majority of graduates I know insist that you'll only ever use a small amount of what you actually did in college..

In terms of training up graduates, while maybe a bit long, I don't really think 4 years training time is that unusual from what I've seen on graduate programs in England to be honest?

While I would understand some of what you're saying, I'd think things largely have indeed changed and the particular concerns you raise wouldn't be unique to Trinity Engineering even if they hadn't...

Figerty wrote: »

Hi Desertstorm,
Thanks for your reply. It confirms nothing changes nor is it your fault.

I taught on a Masters programme in UL about 12 years ago. Two mechancial graduates from Trinity signed up for the M.Tech degree. Two of the soundest students I ever met.

I asked them why the signed up for an M. Tech in UL instead of M. Eng on offer in Trinity at the time.

They explained that the had only book learned everything and had been embarrased in interviews at their lack of practical interviews and expierance. The job market was as tough as it now. I was shocked at their description of the education the recieved. Brilliant at maths, but terrible on application of good practice in design to manufacture.

Simple things like application of tolearacnes, selection of matetials and processes. The subtlties of welding techniques, Identify cutting tools, processes and the abilty to design parts that wouldn't be laughed at by machinists. The old cliche of trying to machine square hole! (BTW the japaneese can now machine square holes).

I had to take them down to the workshops and go through each machine and identify it, and show them how it worked propery, not the simple exercises they had been shown.

So, I would very respectfully say to you that as a mechanical engineer, there is a lot more to Engineering that all that Trinity has to offer. UL isn't perfect by other means either!

I spent today in a major engineering company in the south. It takes them four years to bring a college engineer up the level of competence requried to get parts designed and made. The work they do isn't rocket science, just heavy engineering. They are resigned to this at this stage.

You sound like you love what you do and that bodes well for you, but have a look around while you still can to broaden the horizons.

From my last recollection of meeting the two Trinity Engineers they are flying now.

TimeToShine

amymak wrote: »

I have considered UCD, and it's a great university. The main problem with it for me is that it doesn't offer computer engineering, and that's one of my top options.
I will be doing a post grad hopefully where ever I go, as it's necessary if you want to get credited by Engineers Ireland without taking any extra exams.

UCD offers an electronic and computer engineering masters degree.

Daniel S

UL or UCD, but I'm not allowed say that

bradyle

brownacid wrote: »

More often than not a BSc is awarded for a theoretical engineering degree whereas a B.eng is award for a degree with more practicality. The B.A.I. given by trinity equates to a BSc.

I think your wrong there...like BAI is just latin for BEng...like it means a bachelors degree in the art of engineering. Where as a BSc is for science.

Other than that I agree Trinity's engineering courses are much more putting emphasis on design and practical than they used to...Our practical knowledge would still pale in comparison to some colleges, but they are trying to change that.

And I'm pretty sure Trinity's is now a 5 year course too...this years 4th years are the last ever 4 year course...I think either that or the year below them...

I obviously cant really say what UL's course was like I just know I chose Trinity because I had no idea what kinda engineering I wanted to do but knew it was the area I wanted to go for...I'm really glad i went for undenominated because I ended up in Mech which I never would have foreseen...then again if 4 years ago someone had of told me I'd be here with my recently acquired BAI I'd have told them they were crazy


Oh and also you get a free arts degree if ya go to Trinity...your friends who slaved 3 or 4 years to get theirs really love it when ya remind them how you get one for free :P

Niiall

amymak wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain I want to do engineering. I adore maths, particularily solving problems and I love the type of stuff we do in Applied Maths.
But I'm torn as to where I want to study it. I've narrowed it down to Trinity or Limerick.

Limerick has the coop, which is brilliant. They give you lots of opportunities to study abroad not just in Europe. (I'd love to study abroad, but it would have to be in a place where they speak English as I've spent 6 years dying to dispense of foreign languages.)
They also have plenty of student accomodation, which is definitely where I want to stay. (Stayed in it for a week last summer for math camp and it was really really nice.)
The main problem is the fact that that you have to choose which area of engineering you want to go into before you do the course, and I don't know which one I want to do yet, I'd really like to try them out and see which one suits.

In Trinity on the other hand, you do general engineering for 2 years, which would allow me to get a feel for which one I enjoy the most.
Also it's in Dublin, which is where I'd really love to study. In addition, it does seem to have a better reputation, but from what I've heard, that doesn't make any difference.
However, it doesn't do work experience, and the only studying abroad that's offered is to places in Europe where I'd have to speak a foreign language.
Also, accomodation is really competitive, so there's a good chance I'd end up in digs, which isn't fun from what I've heard.

So sorry that this is so long, but does anyone have any advice?

Wow, this seems like pretty much the exact same situation that I am now in this year! Kind of freaky actually, especially as I also did the math camp in UL last summer!

Just wondering, what did you end up doing? Where are you now?

amymak

Niiall wrote: »

Wow, this seems like pretty much the exact same situation that I am now in this year! Kind of freaky actually, especially as I also did the math camp in UL last summer!

Just wondering, what did you end up doing? Where are you now?

Well I ended up going to Trinity. I'm happy with my choice. I'm really glad I didn't choose Limerick as I would have had to choose either the mechanical route or the electrical/computing route and while I'm pretty sure I want to specialise in computers I detest electrical, so I would have hated to have been doing 50% electrical. Also glad I didn't choose UCD as they don't have computer engineering specialisation and as I said, I'm pretty sure that's the path I'd like to take.

Also, considering how cheap travel is to Dublin on the train now, I'm happy I don't have to drive up and down every week. (Even on the train, the travelling gets wearing.)

With regard to my course, I do like it. My timetable wasn't great for the first semester, but it's really nice this semester. The workload was also heavy last semester. Less so this term.
Lecturers are a mixed bag, as I'm sure they are everywhere. Some really good, some fine, some dreadfully boring. Our mechanical dynamics lecturer was particularly good.
It's not very practical. You do a few experiments and last semester we did you a theoretical project where we had to design an aspect of the Dublin Olympic Village 2024. I really enjoyed that.
We do have one module this semester that is practical, we're designing a mangonel/catapult.

Trinity Hall accommodation is great. Really high quality and good service. I'm applying for it again for next year. It is a very long walk in, (50 minute walk to the Hamilton end) but I don't mind it as it's great exercise.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to advise you.

But one thing I'd say is that particularly if you're planning on staying in
Ireland, employers won't really care what college you went to. They'll just want to know how well you did in it. And you will grow to love whatever one you go to. So ensure that you give practicalities such as travel etc. a lot of weight. Minor annoyances don't seem so minor when after you've been dealing with them day after day.