Cardinal Brady must go

passarellaie

Cardinal Brady has expressed his dissapointment at the Irish embassy to the Vatican being closed.A bit rich from the leader of the church which has allowed the little Kim Il Sung protege have the power to do it.
The Irish church is going nowhere with such an incompetent in charge.We need a new dynamic leader of our flock who not only must have spiritual qualities but the political clout to put the "little leader" and his ilk in their place

alex73

here we go again.... He voiced his opinion. Ireland is a mainly Catholic Country, Its history, ethos, culture is Catholic.

it is said to See Ireland close the embassy. The Uk which is 6% Catholic continues to have one. http://ukinholysee.fco.gov.uk/en. and so to many other countries.

Evan IRAN has an embassy to the Holy See.

So its not Rich that the Head of the Catholic Church in Ireland reflect what us Catholics all think. There was no need to close the embassy, Cost could be cut without doing this. The Government just piggy-back on the anti-Catholic sentiment of the day.

What is really sad is how quickly Ireland forgets the 99% good work that Catholics have done for this Country.

passarellaie

alex73 wrote: »

here we go again.... He voiced his opinion. Ireland is a mainly Catholic Country, Its history, ethos, culture is Catholic.

it is said to See Ireland close the embassy. The Uk which is 6% Catholic continues to have one. http://ukinholysee.fco.gov.uk/en. and so to many other countries.

Evan IRAN has an embassy to the Holy See.

So its not Rich that the Head of the Catholic Church in Ireland reflect what us Catholics all think. There was no need to close the embassy, Cost could be cut without doing this. The Government just piggy-back on the anti-Catholic sentiment of the day.

What is really sad is how quickly Ireland forgets the 99% good work that Catholics have done for this Country.

I dont disagee for one minute that it is wrong that the embassy has been closed.But I argue that Cardinal Bradys incompetence has left the Catholic church vulnerable to the likes of Gilmore who is only too willing to attack our church

wolfsbane

alex73 wrote: »

here we go again.... He voiced his opinion. Ireland is a mainly Catholic Country, Its history, ethos, culture is Catholic.

it is said to See Ireland close the embassy. The Uk which is 6% Catholic continues to have one. http://ukinholysee.fco.gov.uk/en. and so to many other countries.

Evan IRAN has an embassy to the Holy See.

So its not Rich that the Head of the Catholic Church in Ireland reflect what us Catholics all think. There was no need to close the embassy, Cost could be cut without doing this. The Government just piggy-back on the anti-Catholic sentiment of the day.

What is really sad is how quickly Ireland forgets the 99% good work that Catholics have done for this Country.

I think it a disgrace that any religion has a State, and even more that any democracy recognises such a bogus entity.

I'm delighted the Irish government has shown it the door. If only my own government would follow suit.

******************************************************************
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

Onesimus

alex73 wrote: »

here we go again.... He voiced his opinion. Ireland is a mainly Catholic Country, Its history, ethos, culture is Catholic.

it is said to See Ireland close the embassy. The Uk which is 6% Catholic continues to have one. http://ukinholysee.fco.gov.uk/en. and so to many other countries.

Evan IRAN has an embassy to the Holy See.

So its not Rich that the Head of the Catholic Church in Ireland reflect what us Catholics all think. There was no need to close the embassy, Cost could be cut without doing this. The Government just piggy-back on the anti-Catholic sentiment of the day.

What is really sad is how quickly Ireland forgets the 99% good work that Catholics have done for this Country.

Excellent response Alex.

His Eminence Cardinal Sean Brady is concerned that Ireland has closed it's doors and Irelands closing its embassy is no doubt a response to the Vatican removing their Ambassador from Ireland.

We are 99% Catholic country who visits Vatican State quite frequently, we need an embassy there. Government here is trying to de-Christianize it's population and wipe out Catholicism and get their votes, it wont happen.

fedor.2.

Onesimus wrote: »

Excellent response Alex.

His Eminence Cardinal Sean Brady is concerned that Ireland has closed it's doors and Irelands closing its embassy is no doubt a response to the Vatican removing their Ambassador from Ireland.

We are 99% Catholic country who visits Vatican State quite frequently, we need an embassy there. Government here is trying to de-Christianize it's population and wipe out Catholicism and get their votes, it wont happen.

LOL no we're not, dont be silly

alex73

wolfsbane wrote: »

I think it a disgrace that any religion has a State, and even more that any democracy recognises such a bogus entity.

I'm delighted the Irish government has shown it the door. If only my own government would follow suit

Its history, trying to unravel the whole thing is not easy. I can understand the sentiment, as far as my faith is concerned, yes there is no need for a State for the Catholic Church.

I have walked many times around the Vatican. Its a Micro state, However 5 other Basilicas in Rome fall under the statehood of the Vatican. If you look at the 1800's and early 1900's there was a fear the Church would be engulfed or attached, statehood afforded a certain safety. (Hitler did not invaded it) Jews have given their accounts of being hidden then.

Today it can play its part in the United nations giving a voice to human rights that have been kicked under the radar.. Abortion, Right to life.. Dignity of humanity against a rising tide of embryonic child design...

So at least we have a Voice in a Secular world.

As far as the Catholic Faith is concerned... There is no requirement for a Catholic State like the Vatican. Its a historic inheritance which on Balance today can be used for some good.

Baggio1

am in BOTH camps on this one no we AINT 99% catholic anymore... but its still our historical culture... but i agree Brady should be long gone along with all the top guys over here because of all the problems that have been welll talked over - but also because of their constant weakness in front of the media....

having said that... Gilmore?? haha that clown yeah and his sidekicks just playing to the anti catholic media and others - so let him at it.. he and his sort will sooon be brought down hard and low dont worry... these traitors and liars will sooon have their whole world turned upside down and no amount of dodgy deals, lies, and deceit will get them out of whats coming bunch of chicken necked cowardly sell outs...

georgieporgy

Haiti still has enough resources to maintain its embassy at the Vatican.

Tomk1

Onesimus wrote: »

We are 99% Catholic country who visits Vatican State quite frequently, we need an embassy there.

You should look for a job in IONA statistics dept. Rome has an Irish embassy which is the one that looks after Irish-visitors and will continue having that one but not two embassies.

Sean Brady is doing a real fine job

alex73

georgieporgy wrote: »

Haiti still has enough resources to maintain its embassy at the Vatican.

So does Iran and Honduras...

Anyway we still have an ambassador to the Holy see, he just lives in Dublin... 3 hour flight and he is in Rome.

But timeing is everything/// and this was timed to show the government's disrespect to the church, it made headlines all over the world.. Even China has quoted it in its news!!!

Carlos Orange

georgieporgy wrote: »

Haiti still has enough resources to maintain its embassy at the Vatican.

Too bad they don't have the resources to maintain their country as well.

passarellaie

The point I am making however is Cardinal Brady has been a very poor leader for Irelands Catholics and has led us down a road where our very faith is being treated with contempt.We badly need a true leader and quickly

Keaton

Irrespective of costs or trying to offend the Vatican, this move makes Ireland look cheap, nasty, and petty. It's a bit culchie, you might say. Prestigious states like the UK have a Vatican embassy because the UK is a world player and they regard Vatican State as a key listening post and partner in international development issues. Ireland, on the other hand, is a petty, obnoxious little state with no relevance on the world stage. Now they are just proving it, after bankrupting the country, they close the embassy, to show the world they really are a bunch of thick Irish incompetents, if there was any doubt!

Compare the sophisticated and professional way the UK gov handled the Papal visit. Do you think the Irish gov could do as good a job?

Gilmore is probably too proud to realise what he and his ilk have done.

MrPudding

georgieporgy wrote: »

Haiti still has enough resources to maintain its embassy at the Vatican.

personally I hope his reasons for closing it are not just financial. In fact I doubt very much they are just financial. To me, and I hope I am right, it looks like this is Ireland sending the vatican a message. And I hope it is one that other countries start to send as well.

Personally I am fed up this this jumped up religion interfering in the affairs of states.

MrP

PatricaMcKay2

wolfsbane wrote: »

I think it a disgrace that any religion has a State, and even more that any democracy recognises such a bogus entity.

I'm delighted the Irish government has shown it the door. If only my own government would follow suit.

If DeValera had done this (like some people in Fianna Fail wanted to do at the time) than it would be something to write home about, this is just Enda trying to be trendy (lets not forget that there were many part-takers in the vile crimes of the RCC hierarchy which people are good at forgetting).

As for the Brits following suit; I think you will find that the Tories are fond of a bit of old incense!

My reaction to this is simple; Meh!

wolfsbane

alex73 wrote: »

Its history, trying to unravel the whole thing is not easy. I can understand the sentiment, as far as my faith is concerned, yes there is no need for a State for the Catholic Church.

I have walked many times around the Vatican. Its a Micro state, However 5 other Basilicas in Rome fall under the statehood of the Vatican. If you look at the 1800's and early 1900's there was a fear the Church would be engulfed or attached, statehood afforded a certain safety. (Hitler did not invaded it) Jews have given their accounts of being hidden then.

Today it can play its part in the United nations giving a voice to human rights that have been kicked under the radar.. Abortion, Right to life.. Dignity of humanity against a rising tide of embryonic child design...

So at least we have a Voice in a Secular world.

As far as the Catholic Faith is concerned... There is no requirement for a Catholic State like the Vatican. Its a historic inheritance which on Balance today can be used for some good.

The Church of Christ should have no desire for Statehood or secular power of any sort. Every instance of taking such power has led to corruption, to an adoption of ever more worldly thinking.

So any short-term benefits, such as protection from persecution, are far off-set by long-term evil.

Churches that go for power show their true heart.

*******************************************************************
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

Newsite

wolfsbane wrote: »

The Church of Christ should have no desire for Statehood or secular power of any sort. Every instance of taking such power has led to corruption, to an adoption of ever more worldly thinking.

So any short-term benefits, such as protection from persecution, are far off-set by long-term evil.

Churches that go for power show their true heart.

*******************************************************************
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

Exactly, as per my point in the other thread re why the Pope feels the need for a magnificent temple (my question on which was quickly shot down )

laoch na mona

the government should have demanded reparations from the church to pay abuse victims

wolfsbane

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

If DeValera had done this (like some people in Fianna Fail wanted to do at the time) than it would be something to write home about, this is just Enda trying to be trendy (lets not forget that there were many part-takers in the vile crimes of the RCC hierarchy which people are good at forgetting).

As for the Brits following suit; I think you will find that the Tories are fond of a bit of old incense!

My reaction to this is simple; Meh!

If DeValera had shown Ireland was not a priest-ridden State, a lot of sympathy for Irish independence would have been generated in the Protestants of Ulster. But 'Home Rule is Rome Rule' was vindicated before our eyes.

If there is a rethink on the matter among the Irish people, that too will be welcomed up here.

Maybe Ireland will be removing the last of the Vatican shackles, just when the Britain is slipping them on again! There's a fair chance the CoE will be absorbed by its mother again, and a Catholic sovereign on the throne.

It's certainly not Protestantism that is standing in the way - militant atheism and Islam are the only (human) barriers I see.

******************************************************************
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

Poor Uncle Tom

passarellaie wrote: »

We need a new dynamic leader of our flock who not only must have spiritual qualities but the political clout to put the "little leader" and his ilk in their place

Here's a radical thought.......keep politics out of religion,

I don't know about you but if I'm looking for a spiritual boost I don't go to an accountant.....:rolleyes:

crucamim

passarellaie wrote: »

I dont disagee for one minute that it is wrong that the embassy has been closed.But I argue that Cardinal Bradys incompetence has left the Catholic church vulnerable to the likes of Gilmore who is only too willing to attack our church

I do not have much time for Eamon Gilmore, Ruari Quinn or any of the other anti-Catholics who lead the Labour Party of Eire. Nevertheless, I cannot see how the closure of the Irish embassy to the Vatican damages the Eire State - or, for that matter, the RC Church. Nor can I understand why the Vatican wants to have relations with any State.

philologos

passarellaie wrote: »

Cardinal Brady has expressed his dissapointment at the Irish embassy to the Vatican being closed.A bit rich from the leader of the church which has allowed the little Kim Il Sung protege have the power to do it.
The Irish church is going nowhere with such an incompetent in charge.We need a new dynamic leader of our flock who not only must have spiritual qualities but the political clout to put the "little leader" and his ilk in their place

So you're saying that Cardinal Brady should step down because he didn't force Catholicism on the State enough for you?

Isn't Ireland not far off that form of thinking? - Christians need to realise that one can't force people to be Christian, or a country to be Christian. Christianity isn't a political game, it's a hearts game. I would rather see more people come to know Jesus Christ out of their own free will rather than out out of coercion. It tends to produce better Christians.

Also, I'm not sure if it is necessary for countries to have an embassy in the Vatican or that this should be considered a severe grievance. Catholics still have the right to practice Catholicism in Ireland irrespective of whether or not there is an Irish embassy to the Vatican.

Personally, I don't expect any State to give Christianity special backing just because I believe in it. It is my job to aim to live for Jesus and speak for Jesus in my every day life, I don't need my political representatives to do so of necessity. What I would like to see is more people seeing and believing the truth of Jesus by their own free will (as opposed to coercion) through the Bible, being saved by His amazing grace.

Newsite

philologos wrote: »

So you're saying that Cardinal Brady should step down because he didn't force Catholicism on the State enough for you?

Isn't Ireland not far off that form of thinking? - Christians need to realise that one can't force people to be Christian, or a country to be Christian. Christianity isn't a political game, it's a hearts game. I would rather see more people come to know Jesus Christ out of their own free will rather than out out of coercion. It tends to produce better Christians.

Also, I'm not sure if it is necessary for countries to have an embassy in the Vatican or that this should be considered a severe grievance. Catholics still have the right to practice Catholicism in Ireland irrespective of whether or not there is an Irish embassy to the Vatican.

Personally, I don't expect any State to give Christianity special backing just because I believe in it. It is my job to aim to live for Jesus and speak for Jesus in my every day life, I don't need my political representatives to do so of necessity. What I would like to see is more people seeing and believing the truth of Jesus through the Bible and being saved by His amazing grace.

Nail on head. Great post. Amen.

joseph brand

Onesimus wrote: »

Excellent response Alex.

His Eminence Cardinal Sean Brady is concerned that Ireland has closed it's doors and Irelands closing its embassy is no doubt a response to the Vatican removing their Ambassador from Ireland.

Are you talking about the creep who tried to cover up Brendan Smyth's raping of kids? Eminence indeed. He pals around with paedophiles and you have the upmost respect for the scumbag? The mind boggles.

Onesimus wrote: »

We are 99% Catholic country who visits Vatican State quite frequently, we need an embassy there. Government here is trying to de-Christianize it's population and wipe out Catholicism and get their votes, it wont happen.

Where did you get this 99% from? Also, I don't know anyone who has visited the Vatican.

I know the thread is sorta old, but Sean 'The Creep' Brady is in the news today.

In expressing, true sorrow and regret, we make our own heartfelt please for forgiveness from the victims

Yeah, if only there was something he could have done. (along the lines of not helping a child rapist avoid the law)

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-catholic-bishops-make-heartfelt-pleas-for-forgiveness-390269-Mar2012/?new_comment=1#comment-314590

PDN

Locked since we already have a clerical child abuse megathread for these discussions.