Fastest marathons - rated by you

RayCun

I am not going to run a marathon next year. Or possibly even the year after . But when I do - which are the best marathons for a fast time? (I'm more interested in direct experiences of the people on here than stats)

Flat(ish) course?
Weather conditions likely to be reasonable, not too hot or windy?
Not so busy that you will lose a lot of time at the start?
Big enough to have decent numbers of spectators?

(this has probably come up before and I just can't find it)
(serious 3 year plan setting or idle time-wasting? you decide )

Woddle

Berlin
Berlin
Berlin
Berlin

Brianderunner

Berlin's on too early in the Autumn = too hot unless your Kenyan.

Rotterdam & Amsterdam i would say.

menoscemo

I saw an Article in a running magazine not so long ago and it listed the top 10 fatest marathons in the world (based on the average completion times of elites compared to other races).

I don't remember the full list but the top 3 were: Berlin, Rotterdam and Milan. London was about 5th.

I was surprised by the Milan one, but I have been keeping an eye on it since, it's run in April every year, had about 4,000 entrants last year and it wouldn't generally be too hot at that time of the year over there....

Woddle

Berlin and Rotterdam based on below, although it's missing last weeks Frankfurt time and maybe another couple

Runner (Country) Time Date Location
1. Patrick Makau (Kenya) 2:03:38 Sep 25, 2011 Berlin
2. Haile Gebrselassie (Ethiopia) 2:03:59 Sep 28, 2008 Berlin
3. Duncan Kibet (Kenya) 2:04:27 Apr 5, 2009 Rotterdam
4. James Kwambai (Kenya) 2:04:27 Apr 5, 2009 Rotterdam
5. Patrick Makau (Kenya) 2:04:48 Apr 11, 2010 Rotterdam
6. Paul Tergat (Kenya) 2:04:55 Sep 28, 2003 Berlin
7. Geoffrey Mutai (Kenya) 2:04:55 Apr 11, 2010 Rotterdam
8. Sammy Korir (Kenya) 2:04:56 Sept 28, 2003 Berlin
9. Abel Kirui (Kenya) 2:05:04 Apr 5, 2009 Rotterdam
10. Samuel Wanjiru (Kenya) 2:05:10 Apr 26, 2009 London
11. Vincent Kipruto (Kenya) 2:05:13 Apr 11, 2010 Rotterdam

Top 10 International:
(In order based on ARRS Statistics)
1. Berlin
2. Rotterdam
3. Paris
4. Turin
5. Rome
6. Hamburg
7. Italia (Carpi)
8. Amsterdam
9. Venice
10. London

robinph

You have to allow for prize money and WR bonus payments in the calculating of "fastest course" based purely on where the most Kenyans go to run their fast times.

You'd need to look at the number of people coming in behind them as a %'age of the field to get a better idea, but then also discounting enough people dressed up in costumes later on in the likes of London which would also skew the stats. Get hold of peoples predicted times that they put on their application forms and compare that to what they actually did might be fairer, everybody lies afterall. Just if different nationalities lie by the same amount.

RayCun

Yeah, I'd be more interested in how people on here rate the marathons they've run.

G-Money

Interesting thread. Possibly thinking about Dublin myself but had considered somewhere flatter and faster like Berlin. However chances are I will have to do this by myself so I don't know if I fancy a trip abroad on my own for my first marathon.

robinph

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, I'd be more interested in how people on here rate the marathons they've run.

The times of ART'ists are better gauge of what course is faster than a few under fed Kenyans.

I'd be inclined to think that Rotterdam and Amsterdam would be about as good as you can get for a decent fast flat course. The only slight hills, and that is a very relative term in that part of the world, are when you have to go over a river. Otherwise they are flatter than a very flat thing that has been squished extra flat.

Woddle

Here's the second table above in more detail, Dublin is included

Average Race Time Bias- Marathons

Values shown for each marathon are calculated based on the elite runner's performances. For mixed races, the men's and women's RTB values are averaged. The values are given in seconds and represent how much faster (negative values) or slower (positive values) an elite runner would be expected to run at each race.

-68.5 Berlin (GER)
-66.6 Seoul International (KOR)
-66.5 Paris (FRA)
-62.3 Milano (ITA)
-56.4 Hamburg (GER)
-56.3 Debno (POL)
-55.4 Rotterdam (NED)
-52.4 Rome (ITA)
-48.0 Lala (Torreon MEX)
-46.0 Italia (Carpi ITA)
-45.8 Turin (ITA)
-43.2 Marrakech (MAR)
-41.1 Köln (GER)
-38.8 London (ENG)
-37.4 Amsterdam (NED)
-33.6 Fukuoka (JPN)
-29.0 Beppu-Oita (JPN)
-29.0 Dubai (UAE)
-28.1 Osaka Women's (JPN)
-25.9 California Int'l (Sacramento CA/USA)
-25.2 Tokyo International (JPN)
-20.1 Eindhoven (NED)
-19.6 Ottawa (ON/CAN)
-18.8 Beijing (CHN)
-15.4 Venice (ITA)
-11.6 Reggio Emilia (ITA)
-5.6 Houston (TX/USA)
-4.1 Biwa-ko (Otsu JPN)
-1.8 Prague (CZE)
-1.1 Frankfurt (GER)
-0.1 Chicago (IL/USA)
+0.6 Reims (FRA)
+1.4 Grandma's (Duluth MN/USA)
+9.1 Vienna City (AUT)
+10.7 Toronto Waterfront (ON/CAN)
+13.5 Boston (MA/USA)
+21.1 La Rochelle (FRA)
+22.2 Los Angeles (CA/USA)
+22.4 Belgrade (SER)
+23.3 Rock 'N Roll (San Diego CA/USA)
+24.7 Dublin (IRL)
+28.9 Nagoya Women's (JPN)
+31.3 Firenze (ITA)
+31.5 Nagano (JPN)
+33.5 Gold Coast (Brisbane AUS)
+34.9 Cleveland (OH/USA)
+36.2 Twin Cities (St Paul MN/USA)
+38.1 Yokohama Women's (JPN)
+50.2 Rocket City (Huntsville AL/USA)
+52.3 New York City (NY/USA)
+55.4 Baltimore (MD/USA)
+58.2 Enschede (NED)
+64.7 Detroit (MI/USA)
+72.6 Columbus (OH/USA)
+81.8 Istanbul Eurasia (TUR)
+98.3 Stockholm (SWE)
+102.6 Kosice (SVK)
+105.9 Sao Paulo (BRA)
+139.4 Mumbai (IND)
+140.3 Hokkaido (Sapporo JPN)
+165.7 Honolulu (HI/USA)
+174.9 Liberté (Caen FRA)
+182.4 Hong Kong (HKG)
+188.5 Mexico City (MEX)
+328.6 Singapore (SIN)

Notes: The race time bias reflects the difference in times from the expected times of runners on these courses. Negative values indicate the race produces faster than expected times, on the average. Likewise, positive values indicate the race produces slower than expected times, on the average. The race time bias combines the effects of course difficulty and weather conditions to be expected.

Krusty_Clown

How come Chicago is so low in the rankings? After Berlin, I would think it is the flattest course I have run. As has been posted on a number of occasions, the course elevation profile looks like:
______________________________/

robinph

That table is clearly skewed if they have Boston so close to the average. This year was a freak event in Boston, but despite it being a downhill course it is always claimed to be a slow one by the majority of people who run it as far as I've seen.

Woddle

robinph wrote: »

That table is clearly skewed if they have Boston so close to the average. This year was a freak event in Boston, but despite it being a downhill course it is always claimed to be a slow one by the majority of people who run it as far as I've seen.

Table was last updated Dec 2010
http://www.arrs.net/marathons_comparison.php
Might be interesting to compare the prize money list to fastest marathons

Hard Worker

Of all the marathons I've ran, I rate London the quickest. Just enough ups and downs to give certain muscles a break, water stations every mile in sports bottles, great crowd support, organisation that leaves every other marathon in division 2, generally decent weather and you can eat food that you are used to.

T runner

Top ten in Frankfurt:

There was 14 runners under 2:10 mins which is a record.
A heavy shower just before race start may have added time due to less friction.

May say as much about Kenyan strenght now as a fast course. The timing of the event has to be very attractive for an Irish runner looking for a high probability of favourable conditions on a fast course.

MEN

1. Wilson Kipsang 2:03:42

2. Levy Matebo 2:05:16

3. Albert Matebor 2:05:25

4. Phillip Sanga 2:06:07

5. Robert Kipron Cheruiyot 2:06:29

6. Peter Kirui 2:06:31

7. Dickson Kiptolo 2:07:23

8. Siraj Gena 2:08:31

9. Duncan Koech 2:08:38

10. Henry Sugut 2:08:56

Peckham

Not sure if using the elite times is a fair basis for identifying a fast marathon for mid-pack runners. The elites get a clear open road, us mere mortals have to deal with traffic (as well as qualifying standards/lotteries in the case of London, Boston, New York etc.).

I'd say a bit of research would find a marathon with a smaller field in UK (or even Ireland) that would be perfect for running a good time. A quick search of the Runners World forums throws up Chester and Abingdon (both October).


Mind you, +1 to Hard Worker's recommendation of London. Far and away the best/most enjoyable of the marathons I've run (Dublin, Berlin, London).

Lex Luther

I'm no expert but from my experience I'd had to throw Edinburgh out there .....probably flatest course I've ever run...big enough crowd running for support not too big that people trip over each other, weather not an issue ( but I believe wind can be a problem for the coastal finish.)
Far quicker in my view than Dublin and light years quicker than Boston..

( but I haven't yet done Berlin, Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc so my opinion is of limited over all value probably !)

LL

menoscemo

Oisin11178 swears that Blackpool is the fastest marathon he has ever run (and he has run many )

TakeaBowSon

Lex Luther wrote: »

I'm no expert but from my experience I'd had to throw Edinburgh out there .....probably flatest course I've ever run...big enough crowd running for support not too big that people trip over each other, weather not an issue ( but I believe wind can be a problem for the coastal finish.)
Far quicker in my view than Dublin and light years quicker than Boston..

( but I haven't yet done Berlin, Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc so my opinion is of limited over all value probably !)

LL

I would have to respectfully disagree here.

I ran this marathon in 2010. The temperature was ridculously hot - well into the 20's. I believe it was also very hot the previous year (it's on in May).

I found the course to be terrible. An out and back course where you are running parallel to people going in the opposite direction.

Organisation was poor (big problems getting back into the city after) and the Expo is literally a couple of tents set up in the middle of a park.

One to avoid in my opinion!

--amadeus--

For ordinary runners there is so much more to a fast course than just elevation. For example Paris is flat and claims (or used to) more sub 3 finishers than any other marathon but I wouldn't recommend it as a fast marathon for the average punter because it has a huge entry and has a lot of narrow sections giving a lot of congestion on the course. Which knackers any chance you have of a good time. I believe the same applies to London - if you get a GFA place then I am told it's brilliant, clear roads, flat, great organisation and support. Start back with teh masses though and I have heard of people being slowed literally to a stop at turns even a few miles into the race.

So I think it depends on your ability - if you can get into a pen at the front of the big city races based on a past performance then looking at elite times and elevation is probably as good a guide as any because other factors won't affect you. If you are midpack (say 4 hours+) then you need a bit more subtlety and balance flat courses with wide routes or smaller fields and making sure that its a well established race that is well organised (to avoid issues with aid stations running short, for example).

Of teh races I have run, rated for PB potential:

1 - Rotterdam; flat, brilliantly organised, good crowd but no congestion
2 - Amsterdam; flat, well organised but dull course with a tricky surface between 14 - 18 miles
3 - Berlin; flat but crowded, I wasn't a fan of the aid stations either and can be hit or miss with weather
4 - Paris; flat enough but you need to be at the front of the pack, if you are not aiming at sub 3 then I'd avoid as the congestion will kill you
5 - Dublin; not hilly but not flat either, good support and easy travel, congested in first couple of miles for slower runners but managable. If you are 3:30+ you'll be faster here than Paris
6 - Longford; no crowd support and when I ran it there were a lot of long but gradual slopes that drain you. Not much in the way of aid stations either, but that may have changed since 2006. Can be hot as well
7 - Cork; I think they have changed the route but criminally hilly when I ran it and can be hot

Oisin11178

Peckham wrote: »

Not sure if using the elite times is a fair basis for identifying a fast marathon for mid-pack runners. The elites get a clear open road, us mere mortals have to deal with traffic (as well as qualifying standards/lotteries in the case of London, Boston, New York etc.).

I'd say a bit of research would find a marathon with a smaller field in UK (or even Ireland) that would be perfect for running a good time. A quick search of the Runners World forums throws up Chester and Abingdon (both October).


Mind you, +1 to Hard Worker's recommendation of London. Far and away the best/most enjoyable of the marathons I've run (Dublin, Berlin, London).

Yeah your spot on there. Got a big pb over in blackpool last year. Flatter than anything in Ireland by a fair bit.

Pronator

Edinburgh is fast and at a good time of year. Rotterdam is very flat but drinks in cups means its difficult if you are going for a time.

Nobody has mentioned the Connemarathon, Ray O'Connor will be disappointed:D

Clearlier

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Yeah your spot on there. Got a big pb over in blackpool last year. Flatter than anything in Ireland by a fair bit.

It was really, really fast in 2008 (a mile short).

I've heard that Edinburgh can often be windy and isn't considered a fast marathon for those near the front. Might be different further back where there's a bit more shelter. It is a net downhill course though which they make a big thing of.

Here's a link to a list of marathons run by an American where he assesses marathons relative to each other timewise for a 3hr runner.

BeepBeep67

Didn't they mention one in the UK on Marathon Talk, on around the same as DCM - Abigndon <spelling>, so fast the locals call it the Abigndon 25?

Brianderunner

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Didn't they mention one in the UK on Marathon Talk, on around the same as DCM - Abigndon <spelling>, so fast the locals call it the Abigndon 25?

Yep Abingdon (mentioned above by Peckham), just south of Oxford. Runs by the Thames so it has to be flat. Good one for a pb so say my clubmates.

Oisin11178

Clearlier wrote: »

It was really, really fast in 2008 (a mile short).

I've heard that Edinburgh can often be windy and isn't considered a fast marathon for those near the front. Might be different further back where there's a bit more shelter. It is a net downhill course though which they make a big thing of.

Here's a link to a list of marathons run by an American where he assesses marathons relative to each other timewise for a 3hr runner.

If a course being short ended a races existence, many races in Ireland including alot of big ones would be gone. It was spot on the year i ran it.
Also heard abington is very fast, sells out fast and has a big waiting list if i remember correctly.

Clearlier

Oisin11178 wrote: »

If a course being short ended a races existence, many races in Ireland including alot of big ones would be gone. It was spot on the year i ran it.
Also heard abington is very fast, sells out fast and has a big waiting list if i remember correctly.

Not suggesting it wasn't the right distance when your ran it Oisin. Apologies if it appeared that I was.

A clubmate of mine did Abingdon this year and recommends it. For Irish people though it's on at the same time as Dublin. It fills up very early (about April/May IIRC) but it does allow transfers and there are always a few numbers going on the runners world forum.

Oisin11178

Na didnt think you meant that at all. I say the fall out of the short course, the field was smaller when i ran it because of it.
Heard good things about wolverhamton marathon as well, meant to be fairly flat.
It depends what you want from a marathon, if big crowds and support and big running fields does it for you them Berlin, Amsterdam or one of the American big ones is probably best.
For me the 2 important things are well stocked water stations and am accurate course. Also i dont mind a bit of rise either. I cant fault Barcelona to be honest. Water stations were class. Start was excellent and no congestion. Nice fair course course.
For those on a limited budget its not the cheapest though.

Lex Luther

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

I would have to respectfully disagree here.

I ran this marathon in 2010. The temperature was ridculously hot - well into the 20's. I believe it was also very hot the previous year (it's on in May).

I found the course to be terrible. An out and back course where you are running parallel to people going in the opposite direction.

Organisation was poor (big problems getting back into the city after) and the Expo is literally a couple of tents set up in the middle of a park.

One to avoid in my opinion!

yeah you're right in many respects ....i ran it in 2010 and it was ridiculously hot ( though I did pb which is probably why I have happy memories).
however whatever about the expo andorganisation and overall attractiveness of the course etc ..I'd still say its a flat, fast course ( I liked the long straights but that might be just me) and there's a fair chance that Edinburgh in early May wont always end up being 24 degrees........

ThePiedPiper

Of the races I've ran, I'd have the following list in terms of PB potential

1. Berlin
2. Seville
3. Amsterdam
4. Paris
5. Dublin
6. New York
7. Boston
8. Connemara

To be honest, the top 4 are in a league of their own. Berlin was so flat, it felt downhill the whole way. Seville was super flat, wide roads, no congestion but lots of fast runners, good drinks stations. Amsterdam, as mentioned is nearly all good apart from the dead miles from 18/19 to 23. The path on the far side of the river is narrow enough but not problematic if you're running a decent pace. Paris is a great race but congestion even at sub 3 pace is a problem and the surface for the first mile and last mile is cobbled.

Dublin does not have the PB potential of the others with some sneaky hills that have managed to derail me twice out of four runnings. Personally, I ran New York and Boston for the experience, didn't really have an agressive goal and in Conn, well I was just stupid and didn't leave anything in the tank for the last 6 miles.

Trampas

Just finished my 1st so looking at #2 Any other courses to mention here?

Valencia? Barca?

Looking on the flat side over hills.

Speed I am not as worried if not fast due to crowding

ThePiedPiper

Trampas, since I last posted in this thread, I could add London and Budapest to very good, flat, PB potential marathons.
London has just a couple of short uphill sections in the first 3 or 4 miles, barely noticeable, and the rest is completely flat. Very very professional marathon, I ran it at 3:20 pace and had no congestion issues.
Budapest is nearly completely flat, I did run a PB in it. However, couple of issues would be that all drinks are from cups, and there are a good few out and back sections that disrupt your rhythm a bit. But undoubtedly, it's fast and a very nice city to visit.

average_runner

So whats New York like as a marathon to run? Already thinking about it as going next year

jester1980

was looking at another one myself for May, anyone done Limerick?

Was looking at Rotterdam too but neither Ryan anir or aer lingus fly here, anyone doen this and fly in somewhere beside it?

ThePiedPiper

average_runner wrote: »

So whats New York like as a marathon to run? Already thinking about it as going next year

An absolutely amazing marathon to run. But, logistically, it's hard work with the early morning tubes, ferry to Staten Island, bus to race start, sitting around in the cold beside a bridge for a couple of hours. However, once the anthems and New York, New York are on the loudspeakers and the Navy boats below shooting up water, all is forgiven. Along with the start, one of the highlights is running off the Queensboro Bridge into Manhattan.

Don't go to New York looking for a fast time though, it's a fairly tough course, with the Queensboro Bridge at 16/17 miles being a bit of a breaker.

Trampas

Thinking maybe Chicago next year. Anyone ran it?

grimbergen

jester1980 wrote: »

was looking at another one myself for May, anyone done Limerick?

Was looking at Rotterdam too but neither Ryan anir or aer lingus fly here, anyone doen this and fly in somewhere beside it?

Amsterdam or Brussels are both approx an hour away (Amsterdam closer) with a direct train connection. Very simple trip. Also wondering about Limerick if others have done it?

Sara2002

Very interesting thread. I just completed my first and am signed up for Paris in April. Anyone done this or have any advice on it? I've heard it's not the best for support

ThePiedPiper

Sara2002,

Paris is a very good and enjoyable marathon, but with a few issues. I'll give you the pros and cons:

Pros:
The start on the Champs-Elysee is absolutely awe-inspiring. Amazing atmosphere here.
The course really is like a sightseeing tour of all of the landmarks of Paris.
The course is more or less flat, the only hill I recall was a tunnel at about 16 miles, but it was very short, barely noticeable.
Pacers, aid stations, etc. were good. This is an IAAF Gold Label race, so has to be of a certain quality.

Cons:
Inexcusable lack of marshalling at some points. About halfway point when I did it in 2008, the crowds had come right in on the road, and even at sub-3 pace, for about 10 seconds, we had to slow to a walk with congestion. I'd imagine it'd be much worse back the way.
I found some of the French runners to be rude, aggressive and lacking in race etiquette. I've done 14 marathons, and Paris is the only one where a fellow runner physically shoved me out of the road at a water station. Possibly isolated incidents but still.
The first and last mile is on cobbled surfaces. You don't mind the start, but on Avenue de Foch at the end, you'll feel it.

The pros definitely outweigh the cons. Any marathon with 35-40,000 runners won't be without its issues. Enjoy it.

The Davestator

RunForestRun wrote: »

Sara2002,

Paris is a very good and enjoyable marathon, but with a few issues. I'll give you the pros and cons:

Pros:
The start on the Champs-Elysee is absolutely awe-inspiring. Amazing atmosphere here.
The course really is like a sightseeing tour of all of the landmarks of Paris.
The course is more or less flat, the only hill I recall was a tunnel at about 16 miles, but it was very short, barely noticeable.
Pacers, aid stations, etc. were good. This is an IAAF Gold Label race, so has to be of a certain quality.

Cons:
Inexcusable lack of marshalling at some points. About halfway point when I did it in 2008, the crowds had come right in on the road, and even at sub-3 pace, for about 10 seconds, we had to slow to a walk with congestion. I'd imagine it'd be much worse back the way.
I found some of the French runners to be rude, aggressive and lacking in race etiquette. I've done 14 marathons, and Paris is the only one where a fellow runner physically shoved me out of the road at a water station. Possibly isolated incidents but still.
The first and last mile is on cobbled surfaces. You don't mind the start, but on Avenue de Foch at the end, you'll feel it.

The pros definitely outweigh the cons. Any marathon with 35-40,000 runners won't be without its issues. Enjoy it.

Signed up for Paris last week, so this is great info - thanks. I've heard people lose time at the start due to congestion- did you find this?

ThePiedPiper

Personally, I didn't find congestion an issue at the start of Paris, no. But, I was starting in one of the higher starting pens closer to the front. I remember hitting my first mile bang on 6:45-6:50 pace. The Champs-Elysee is a huge, and incredibly wide street, and the race goes the entire length of it. The congestion issues I experienced were later on in the race. Water stations were a bit manic, I carried my own bottle for a while to avoid this.

Woddle

I ran Paris in 2009 and had lots of problems with the race. One area was so congested that we came to a complete stop for what felt a life time but in saying that Vagga did it this year (I think) and loved it, he reckoned a lot of the issues from previous years were sorted and if I hear similar good things about 2013 I'd definitely consider it again as I love the city and after the marathon the family all headed to disney land for the week, so it could be a great all in one package.

Sara2002

Thanks a million runforestrun that's a great help. I think it's better to be forewarned, no nasty surprises :-)

Krusty_Clown

Trampas wrote: »

Thinking maybe Chicago next year. Anyone ran it?

Amazingly fast course (if you get the right weather!). Chicago on October is typically a three-sided coin-toss between freezing cold icy conditions, hot end of summer weather, and ideal conditions. When I ran it in 2011 it was of the hot variety (though not as hot as Boston 2012). Temperature started at 18'C at 9am, which was warm but manageable, but had risen to 26'C by the time I had finished. The second half of the course is unfortunately exposed and un-sheltered (unlike the first half), which means if you do get strong winds, extreme cold or heat, you are in for a tough time later in the race. But if everything lines up, you're in for a very fast course.

tHE vAGGABOND

Yup, loved Paris this year and would do it again ahead of Berlin tbh

yes its busy, but show me a marathon with 30k plus people which is not here and there. Hell, DCM is very overcrowded at a few stages.

If you want a quiet marathon avoid a popular big city one and do one in the middle of nowhere with 100 people doing it

psychozeb

Would highly reccommend Frankfurt as flat as Berlin or Paris but similar in size crowd to Dublin.seems to be a more competitive crowd running it too,was 2:59 in Frankfurt and finished 835th compared to last year in Berlin time 2:58 place 1076th.excellent public transport and one of the lads i was over with had a hotel across from the start line for €75 a night.unique finish inside in the Festhalle,you finish on a red carpet with streamers going off and tv screens and seating for spectators and cheerleaders also.

liamo123

Trampas wrote: »

Thinking maybe Chicago next year. Anyone ran it?

Great race , support etc and dead flat... As KC says weather is a bit of a lottery. When I ran it in 2010 is was freezing. Hat and gloves on the whole way around.

Run and Jump

Re: Paris, I'd agree with a lot of what's already said and I'd add:

Pro:
- No serious uphill stretches, and the first Km is downhill
- Organisation is usually excellent, 40,000 in Paris feels no more crowded than 12,000 in Dublin
- The route is very picturesque, as you'd imagine.
- Non-Parisian French sports folk are great crack and love the Irish.
- I ran my PB there!

Con:
- Paris in April can sometimes be hot: In 2007 it got to 30 degrees at midday, but this was unseasonably warm. This year it was around 15 degrees with a cool breeze behind you along the Seine for miles 15-18.
- No atmosphere. Paris is not a sports-mad city. Most spectators are scowling at you for blocking their path to the tourist site or the food market. Colleague of mine plays in a band along the Paris route and says it's nowhere near the fun of when they play at the London Marathon.
- Orange peel strewn at food and drink stations: you really have to watch your footing.
- Lots of tourists in the main field, dawdling and sightseeing, so you need to be up in the 3:30s to get a clear run.

All that said, I highly recommend Paris, I've done it 3 times! Enjoy it!