If the CD goes, Metal goes....A Follow Up....

Motley Crue

OK, in the same vein as the other thread about CDs perhaps becoming an obsolete format I wanted to take some time to write down some thoughts on this and share them with you, and in the form of a little experiment....take a band like Toxic Holocaust (some of you may have heard the name, or heard of them, some of you might not) but they're an average (borderline underground) US band who is slowly paying their dues and making some kind of living from music and touring around the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAs_BT-qPeU

So if the CD is eradicated how exactly does a European Metal fan support an American band like this?

Toxic Holocaust are currently touring in support of Kvelertak, they're down on the bill so they will probably play 20 minutes at the most, and that's all I can really expect so travelling (for me) on a six hour return journey to see a band play 20 minutes is madness if I have to pay for petrol, take time off, maybe overnight accommodation if I decide to stay. It's my choice but who has the money to do that?

If I purchase a T Shirt online I have to get one from Hot Topic in the States (or Amazon) because their official website doesn't do that many and that doesn't support the band at all.

I could download their album, for free, so why am I going to pay for the same thing? If someone told you that you could go into HMV whenever you liked and take as many free CDs as you could then you wouldn't pay for CDs any longer either. I'm reserved enough to know that when I go onto a Torrent site I'm not going to download 20 albums a day (or maybe even a month) because that defeats the purpose. If I buy their album (on CD or Vinyl) then I have something physical and I feel as if I get a return for my purchase.

When we download TV shows and movies we do so illegally, but there is a TV License and a Sky TV subscription fee, which support (in a roundabout way) the television industry. Also with things like Sky Plus and programmes starting days after their US premiers we are more inclined not to bother with downloading TV programmes online. But the same cannot be said for music because there is no way, asides from the bands setting up begging stations on their websites, to fund this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MK9bJdclc

There are people who are filling 80GB IPods with stolen music but how does that support anyone (are they really music fans to begin with?). If HMV or any retailer take away the CD then how do I support my band, in some small way, to let them know I still want them to make music.....especially when they don't tour near me....you could say that's their problem and they can only tour where the booking agents book them or where the band are physically able to perform but if they break up, or disband, because they can't make a living then am I just supposed to keep relying on bands like Metallica to fill the Metal void...can no new acts emerge in the digital age? It's my belief that if we cannot find a physical format to continue on from the CD, or curtail illegal downloading completely, we could destroy the Metal Industry.

We speak on this forum about bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Metallica and how people today would have been lucky to see them 20 years ago in their prime. At the same time nobody is replacing these big bands and emerging as frontrunners in the Metal genre. The odd bands like Mastodon are the exception that proves the rule while bands like Avenged Sevenfold, Funeral for a Friend and Kids in Glass Houses are mostly 10/15 years old and yet they're seen as the future of metal?

I don't think Toxic Holocaust essentially represent the future of Metal (they are largely based on nostalgic sound) but surely we can give bands like Slayer, TOOL, Pearl Jam, AC/DC, Metallica and countless others and dignity of knowing there will be something to go and see on a stadium basis when they all retire??

In using HMV and Amazon as examples it retains the fact that Tesco, Asda or whatever don't stock obscure, back catalogue or ex-chart music beyond the normal Pop and Rock limits. The fact is I would stand no chance in ever finding my favourite albums in Asda because they don't cater for me

NIBBS

very valid point Crue, and something I partially covered in another thread relating to Scott Ian's rant on illegal downloading, I agree that should the CD be phased out as a format smaller bands/genres of music will find it much harder to get their music out there, what I was getting at was that if Live Music becomes the main way to make money and survive as a band it will be much more difficult for smaller or unknown bands to make anything and keep themselves on the road, it's not a good thing and depresses me a bit even thinking about it.........the number of live gigs will drop dramatically too, knock on effects will be what kills the genres.......

weisses

Isn't it way cheaper for (upcoming) bands to sell their album online ??

I would have never heard of most "obscure underground" bands if it wasn't for myspace

Getting albums for free has nothing to do with selling hard copy's imo ...illegal downloading will always be there

All I'm saying is that it is way more easier for upcoming bands to get global attention what is resulting in more sales and gigs

Or am i missing your point completely ?

Knifey Spoony

I think the whole downloading thing has both its good and bad points. On the good side: it allows bands that are just starting to out to get their music out there easily and build up a fan base. This might be offering free downloads of their albums or streaming of their songs on Myspace or Facebook. So, in that respect it is a bit easier these days to get to hear bands that you would not have gotten the chance to hear before.

But, then there is the fact that most musicans aren't rolling in money and that they have to make a living some how. So, there is a point where bands can't simply offer free downloads anymore and need to make money in order for them to continue making music. This is where the average music fan might cheap out and just donwload the album instead of paying for it. This definitely has negative consquences for bands of all levels cause if they ain't making, money they can't continue playing.

I know that I like to buy physical copies of albums where ever I can beacuse I have more respect for the music then and am more inclined to listen to it rather than something that is just a throw away download. I always seem to get funny looks for my friends when I tell them that though. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Motley, I think that your aurgument can be applied to any genre of music and not just metal. If people simply aren't willing to support the music that they like then that music isn't going to be around for long more.

gamgsam

Im in a band that will be a part of the future of metal. To some unknown extent!

This worries me too, but have to embrace it. You see alot of the older generation - Scott Ian, Lars Ulrich etc. going mental over people downloading their music without paying.

Although they are dead right, screaming till they're blue in the face is no use. Music is changing and downloads will continue regardless. A few younger bands have adjusted to this.

Gama Bomb, for example, released their latest album free for download. They told me personally that the only reason they got gigs in Mexico this year is because the album was available for free, and actually reached Mexico. There is no way a small enough band like that could work a distribution deal so well.

McGalligog and Shardborne have done the same. Fair play to them, hope it works as well.

Another band I heard of recently put their album on preorder. Depending on pre sales, the band would add more and more material to the release. There were 8 levels of material that the band recorded as they got the funding. It was a great success and all of the material was released in the end. It also had the benefit of huge promotion as fans encouraged their friends to listen and like the band and contribute to the pre sales.

Their is a company called Dotted Music who write articles on the music business. If you are in a band, I couldn't recommend it more. It is brilliant.

I hope to make a basic wage from music this time next year so will be trying a lot of different ideas. To me, I think the main money spinner is merchandise. T shirts, if priced right and look good can be a great investment. I think the music side of things is getting a lot more complicated than just record and sell though.

Just some thoughts...
T

gamgsam

Here is a link to the eBook;

http://dottedmusic.com/10-truths-about-making-it-in-music/

and the website;

http://dottedmusic.com/

Spacedog

"Intellectual Property is the Oil of the 21st Century"

- Steal this Movie 2 -

RayCon

Motley Crue wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAs_BT-qPeU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MK9bJdclc

Im getting a Sodom vibe off them ...

Motley Crue

gamgsam wrote: »

Gama Bomb, for example, released their latest album free for download. They told me personally that the only reason they got gigs in Mexico this year is because the album was available for free, and actually reached Mexico. There is no way a small enough band like that could work a distribution deal so well.

True enough, but what also helped was having the album promoted by a label as big as Earrache and having someone like Metal Hammer give the album away free to the whole of the UK. True enough, Mexico is far flung from the UK, but Earrache promote with Earrache in the US and the label over there has a lot of Mexican connections. Giving their album away free helped, but having the backing of a big label with International connections, that helped even more and made sure things happened a lot quicker.

weisses wrote: »

Or am i missing your point completely ?

MySpace and Facebook and global sites are a great way for a band to get attention. The Internet has given bands, like Toxic Holocaust, the chance to travel from America and tour Europe - but even with the Internet and our modern age, the most prolific of music fans in metal have barely heard of a band like Kiuas (who I saw perform just the other night) and they're from Finland and have been performing at least 10 years.

Now the Internet is great but it needs to be used with care, and can also saturate a market, like it has done with Metal. Loads of great bands, all wanting to tour, all struggling like fish to get outside the net and be seen as individuals. The Internet means that I could get a friend to play bass and guitars, someone to record drum parts and we could start a band tomorrow. If people like our music we could have some success and, with practice, could even tour. People can listen to us on MySpace and then download our album and they may never come to see us - and so we make no money on that. And sadly we need money to live in this world. But the market allows for anyone to become a musician and that's great but removing a chance for them to make money, assured profit, is madness.

I'm not saying that musicians should be stinking rich, but the fact is that sometimes musicians are barely breaking even, and just about getting minimum wage for doing a job that demands they be on the road 24/7 - now that's their choice, but their choice also benefits our enjoyment, because if they chose to go home and work as an accountant and forget about music I wouldn't have that band to listen too. Pretty soon, if profits keep getting cut up and cut into, we won't have any bands left except those established pre Internet.

The funniest thing was an interview I did with Stephen from Kids in Glass Houses, a band touted as huge and who have been on the cover of Kerrang, and when I interviewed him at Sonisphere this year he told me he was working for the NHS as a Payroll Admin and most of the other guys in the bands had full time jobs doing jobs for other bands - like drivers, loaders, techs etc...the fact was that he was performing on a massive stage for thousands of people and then going back to work on Tuesday.

Think about that

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Anyway, Motley, I think that your aurgument can be applied to any genre of music and not just metal. If people simply aren't willing to support the music that they like then that music isn't going to be around for long more.

It can, yes, but the difference with Metal and more obscure genres is that you can buy the likes of Matt Cardle, Britney Spears and even Manic Street Preachers at your local shop right now alongside the bread and milk. But you'd be hard pressed to find Metal beyond the obligatory Nirvana, AC/DC or Pearl Jam release

For that matter, why should anyone go to Asda and pay £10 or more for a Manic Street Preachers Greatest Hits on Double CD, re released a few years after the last bloody Hits CD. And people only want a handful of tracks, most don't want all 38 CDs....but it's marketed so you will buy it, either for yourself or as a present, when you should spend that money on a Metal artist you might even really really like (but because you've never heard anything by Turisas you just don't know if you do)

My fear is not for the Pop Industry, or the kind of bands you find every Sunday night milking their performances on X Factor, it's for the kind of music that 13/14 year old kids aren't hearing on the radio, don't find in Tesco's entertainment aisles and don't see on TV. The kind of music that you don't see X Factor artists covering, that you don't hear some guy with a tracksuit on backwards and his trousers hanging half way down his arse listening too at the back of a bus Taking the CD away would be another death knell to Metal and we don't need that, not when thousands of young people growing up think this man......



.....I like some popular music, Rhianna is a fantastic singer, I wish she wouldn't sing rap but I like her voice and think she's very talented. But while Pop can survive this saturation to some extent, because of the amount of outlets it has to cater for the sheer volume of artists who claim to be "the next big thing" there are genre's like Metal and Punk which just need the CD to survive...at least until a viable alternative is found, or it becomes cheaper to tour.....

iroced

Motley Crue wrote: »

There are people who are filling 80GB IPods with stolen music but how does that support anyone (are they really music fans to begin with?).

That's the core of the problem IMO. As I said in another related thread, if tomorrow, dowloading is impossible, all these people will just concentrate on something else and won't bother following music anymore. The question is what percentage they represent?

gamgsam wrote: »

Im in a band that will be a part of the future of metal. To some unknown extent!

This worries me too, but have to embrace it. You see alot of the older generation - Scott Ian, Lars Ulrich etc. going mental over people downloading their music without paying.

Although they are dead right, screaming till they're blue in the face is no use. Music is changing and downloads will continue regardless. A few younger bands have adjusted to this.

Gama Bomb, for example, released their latest album free for download. They told me personally that the only reason they got gigs in Mexico this year is because the album was available for free, and actually reached Mexico. There is no way a small enough band like that could work a distribution deal so well.

McGalligog and Shardborne have done the same. Fair play to them, hope it works as well.

Another band I heard of recently put their album on preorder. Depending on pre sales, the band would add more and more material to the release. There were 8 levels of material that the band recorded as they got the funding. It was a great success and all of the material was released in the end. It also had the benefit of huge promotion as fans encouraged their friends to listen and like the band and contribute to the pre sales.

Their is a company called Dotted Music who write articles on the music business. If you are in a band, I couldn't recommend it more. It is brilliant.

I hope to make a basic wage from music this time next year so will be trying a lot of different ideas. To me, I think the main money spinner is merchandise. T shirts, if priced right and look good can be a great investment. I think the music side of things is getting a lot more complicated than just record and sell though.

Just some thoughts...
T

Lots of valid points here. From my "music fan" perspective, as much as I can understand Ulrich and Ian position, they do sound (especially Ulrich) like their main motivation is money, even though they probably are in a very comfortable situation, financially speaking.
If I focus on Metallica, what they've been doing since the Black Album (some would say since ...And Justice For All ) has been subject to tons of controversies/debates about their relation to their fans. Do they care about their opinions? From my "external" point of view, it doesn't seem so. Ulrich is always opening is big fat mouth complaining about people stealing his music but I'd prefer him to concentrate on his drumming, on his sound. I've seen them in Marlay Park a couple of years ago and at some points I couldn't hear him playing (One for example). His attitude is not very positive and even though I own most of their albums (I think only Reload's missing to my "collection") I could sometimes feel like having been "robbed" by them (e.g. St Anger "saucepan drumming") and can understand people that "stole" them.
On the other hand, you have bands like Ayreon or The Ocean, that always spend a huge amount of time and put tons of effort on the packaging, the sound, well basically the product they sell. I'd say it incites a lot more the fans to buy their piece of art.

And to come back to the original subject of the discussion here, if the CDs go, it's the end for these bands (unless they only produce special edition but it may cost them and us a lot more...).

Malice

Motley Crue wrote: »

...we don't need that, not when thousands of young people growing up think this man......



.....I like some popular music, Rhianna is a fantastic singer, I wish she wouldn't sing rap but I like her voice and think she's very talented.

I'm not going to get into the rest of the thread just now but what point are you trying to make with the above? I've no idea who that guy is or what he represents.

Motley Crue

Malice wrote: »

I'm not going to get into the rest of the thread just now but what point are you trying to make with the above? I've no idea who that guy is or what he represents.

This man's name is Stephen Manderson. He's 27, although he's marketed to look a lot younger, and most people in the UK know him as Professor Green. He recently "remixed" an INXS song which got him a lot of attention and won him some awards. This week he released his new album and last week he appeared on the X Factor singing a song that's currently (or just was) UK No 1

Despite the fact you don't know him to see on this thread, and have possibly never heard of him or just barely heard his material, it is estimated that within a few short years (he was 23 when he cut his first EP and was not performing since the age of 12 or anything) he was managed to make himself very wealthy.

That rarely happens in Metal - young people look to him, and not metal musicians, as the future....

viadah

Adaptation and evolution will happen, as it has done in the past.

nyarlothothep

When I was growing up S Club 7, Steps and the Vengaboys were popular. I was one of the few people who listened to rock and was mocked in school for it because I didn't like dance music. However the people who would have liked metal/rock found their way into it regardless of the crap that was being blasted at them by the music industry.

That said I agree with your point, at first I thought it was alarmist but reading through it I think it addresses a fundamental problem with the music industry, that music can be acquired for free and when confronted with the choice of paying or not paying for music, a lot of people will not pay for it, leaving themselves better off in the short term at the expense of bands and music production in general in the long term. This short term thinking apparently has an evolutionary precedent but that said we're not in thrall to it, I mean we can reflect on our monkey urges and not follow through on them.

I don't think its a terrible thing to download Metallica records for free, they're already minted. But I would buy albums of smaller bands like Reverend Bizarre because they deserve it for putting out great records to the ignorance of the wider public. For bands like this recording, touring and publicity is probably difficult because they may not be making enough money to finance the band from touring or selling albums alone so they have to take jobs. The problem with a lot of jobs these days is that employers treat people like production units, resources to be used up with no security, most of your time is taken up with a job, you come home wrecked because you have to get up at 7.30 or earlier and endure long commutes. So its doubly difficult to establish and maintain a band because 80% of your energy is expended for survival. So I admire bands that hold down jobs because they're effectively working two jobs, and putting themselves on the line to an extent by going out there and potentially facing burn out in order to contribute to culture.

I think music shouldn't be free but the recording industry pretty much fcks over artists and retailers overcharge for the sale of CDs. Bands like Radiohead annoy me when they jump on the popular bandwagon and say music should be free, that might be easy for them to say but they're legitimating the current state of affairs and perpetuating it thereby causing misery for musicians across the world, despite their social justice rhetoric they're contributing to a major injustice for millions of people and for countless future generations. Producing music requires time,effort and money. It has value in this sense and people should appreciate that by paying for it, otherwise its disrespecting the artist. It doesn't so much matter though if the artist is a multi millionaire set up for life. Its still wrong in principle but not so much in practice.

Also for a band like Opeth I saw that there was the standard issue of Heritage and the collector’s edition which had 2 extra songs and a 60 minute documentary for one extra euro. This to be seemed to be of value so I bought the collector’s edition; I appreciate the effort put in for the small increase in price. I myself give away my music for free, I'd rather make money off it but its the easiest and most efficient way to market it, kinda like that line out of the Social Network when Zuckerberg resists the idea of advertisements on his site. There has been a democratisation in music production, people can put out professional sounding records with their own equipment, which they can finance through jobs or whatever, but the flipside is that with more players involved and with the internet allowing for the free and fast dissemination of music, its in abundance so its percieved to be less valuable, therefore less people are willing to pay for it.

Metal scares off a lot of people anyway, with the growling and anger, a lot of people just want happy lala music but there will always be some who will seek out more complex and imaginative music, because they're simply better than the lala people.

Motley Crue

nyarlothothep wrote: »

there will always be some who will seek out more complex and imaginative music, because they're simply better than the lala people.

No, Metal fans are not better than Pop music fans just because they have to look a little harder for their music, real Pop music fans (who buy music legally, attend concerts and buy T Shirts) can be just as passionate as any other music fan.....that kind of elitism and self entitlement in metal fans is wrong

I think music shouldn't be free but the recording industry pretty much fcks over artists and retailers overcharge for the sale of CDs.

Most taxes and charges for products come from your Government, who put tax and excise customs, decide rental charges and VAT and basically almost everything about a product price beyond trade price (which also has separate VAT and charges)

What I don't get with a lot of these underground bands, is, why not just have a donate button on your website? Even if people threw the odd dollar at you, it's something. If you release an album, do it through your own site and for downloads, have a "suggested amount". How much did Radiohead make when they went about it this way?

Motley Crue

Deleted User wrote: »

What I don't get with a lot of these underground bands, is, why not just have a donate button on your website?

Not a bad idea but do you really want to have to beg from your fans?

nyarlothothep

Motley Crue wrote: »

No, Metal fans are not better than Pop music fans just because they have to look a little harder for their music, real Pop music fans (who buy music legally, attend concerts and buy T Shirts) can be just as passionate as any other music fan.....that kind of elitism and self entitlement in metal fans is wrong



Most taxes and charges for products come from your Government, who put tax and excise customs, decide rental charges and VAT and basically almost everything about a product price beyond trade price (which also has separate VAT and charges)

You're right on both counts. The pop people are alright.

gamgsam

Another example of where money can be made below;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTAAsCNK7RA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w

These guys aren't everyones musical cup of tea.

Certainly not mine - but these two videos are fantastic! They've come up with a video that anybody can enjoy and I would say the vast majority of people I know have seen this. Because of the traffic that these videos attract to youtube, google offer a 'partnership' and pay the band per click.

31 million and 10 million views. Each view of which pays real money.

Not to mention the sheer promotional wet dream this is. I've come accross this band twice, in watching both of those videos. And when I thought of them as a good example for this thread, I instantly remembered their name.

I forsee a struggle with metal bands trying to pay. But I really think some clever people will be able to make it work. The only thing that has changed is the amount of outlets for your music. That has increased! We just need to be clever enough to turn the outlets into money makers.

I think the volume of money that can be made is going to be a lot lower than the likes of what ACDC, Metallica, Iron Maiden came accross. But I really do think it is possible to work with downloading etc and still make money.

Sure I'll let ye know in a year or so if it works for me!

Great thread by the way, good points

T

Motley Crue

Motley Crue wrote: »

Not a bad idea but do you really want to have to beg from your fans?

Well, if Toxic Holocaust had a donate button, would you use it?

It's not begging. It's allowing your fans to send you a message of support (albeit financially)

People aren't stupid. Money is needed to make all these albums and carry on making your art

Motley Crue

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, if Toxic Holocaust had a donate button, would you use it?

Well, I might do, at least to the same value of two tickets to their Manchester gig. Least then I know they'd get a small amount directly that would help them in some way.

But I'm not sure it would work on such a massive scale. Richard Cheese did that recently, for his most recent album, and on the album he has a track where he thanks those who donated personally - he claims he raised $20,000 towards recording, producing and marketing the album...which is good, but there's a bad point, those who gave the most money had their names mentioned on the album and were awarded personal prizes.

So that creates a sub culture (and a class divide) where a fan who can't afford to give $20 towards the next Toxic Holocaust album, for example, is belittled by the likes of a fan who can afford to give $200 and gets rewarded with a ticket to their next hometown show.

On top of that, one fan gives $2,000 (in theory) and receives a personal studio visit, or a concert in their back garden? Basically it allows fans to buy their loyalty and buy their way into a band. If someone gives Toxic Holocaust $10,000 over 4 years towards touring and making an album, how much of the band would they own, would they be able to submit lyrical and song suggestions, or attend several shows a year, or ask for a royalty stake?

The same thing exists with fan clubs, although you're paying to meet fellow fans and get a T Shirt or some exclusive merchandise, and you get a magazine every few months. But the money from the fan club also goes towards some part of the bands functions and is accessible to a large majority of fans. And if you're not a fan club member you don't feel really destroyed inside because you haven't got a membership, because it's just a forum and a T Shirt.

But donations? I mean where does the buck end (to use an American expression) if you allow people to give freely in terms of claiming a stake into their favourite band? That Radiohead thing was interesting, I'd love to meet the fan who gave the most suggested donation, and ask them why they did it. Or did they have a cap on the suggestion box that didn't go beyond RRP?

Add to that the sheer number of recording artists out there all asking for your donations towards their cause, and you having to decide how much to give what band? On top of that there are still people who think "why bother paying for their albums now since I am giving them donations"

Malice

Motley Crue wrote: »

This man's name is Stephen Manderson. He's 27, although he's marketed to look a lot younger, and most people in the UK know him as Professor Green. He recently "remixed" an INXS song which got him a lot of attention and won him some awards. This week he released his new album and last week he appeared on the X Factor singing a song that's currently (or just was) UK No 1

Despite the fact you don't know him to see on this thread, and have possibly never heard of him or just barely heard his material, it is estimated that within a few short years (he was 23 when he cut his first EP and was not performing since the age of 12 or anything) he was managed to make himself very wealthy.

I don't understand why you've brought him up as an example. He's nothing to do with metal, INXS are nothing to do with metal and the X-Factor is certainly nothing to do with metal. I'm sure Justin Bieber is pretty wealthy too, doesn't mean he's of any relevance to metal fans except as a figure of scorn.

Motley Crue wrote:

That rarely happens in Metal - young people look to him, and not metal musicians, as the future....

Metal is a niche genre, always has been.

Motley Crue

Malice wrote: »

I don't understand why you've brought him up as an example. He's nothing to do with metal, INXS are nothing to do with metal and the X-Factor is certainly nothing to do with metal

I've brought him up, not because he has anything to do with metal, but specifically because people like him are making money in the music Industry and are popular whereas newer Metal musicians are struggling to make a living and provide any sort of future to the genre

Professor Green is an example of someone who can be popular, have his music stolen, but still continue to make shed loads of money as a performer in the music Industry - I only brought him up as an example

viadah

It may be an aside to the general conversation, but I always got the impression that most metal bands I liked worked 'day jobs' as it were and it kind of lent some identity with them as a struggling musician before I got boring, old and overweight. I say this as an aside because I'm not suggesting people in niche market bands should accept their lot and continue to work day jobs gratefully, because I sure as **** wasn't grateful to have to.

On the subject of begging from fans, is there not a site for raising funds for bands like that? Someone may correct me but the story I saw was either Fear Factory or members of in a side project that were on it at the time.

S.M.B.

Aye, Kickstarter.

It's an excellent way for bands to generate the funds to record and release an album.

Motley Crue

viadah wrote: »

On the subject of begging from fans, is there not a site for raising funds for bands like that?

The only one I know of is Richard Cheese, who is quoted on his site as saying

Dear Richard Cheese fan-- I appreciate your support of my music. However, instead of buying one of my CDs, I would prefer that you please consider donating....

An odd approach I guess, but still, maybe it works for him

viadah

Well, donating the price of a CD directly to an artist rather than buying a CD gets the artist more money I suppose. As for Kickstarter I think it's a good idea and would definitely contribute to bands I liked if I ever got off the goddamned breadline.