Parking icket fine from a private firm - advice needed

bambampop

I recently received a parking fine at drogheda port area for €60 for non-display of a ticket. I was in a shop getting change and when i came back the officer was issuing the ticket. I told him i was just about to get a ticket but he said it didn't matter and that i could appeal it. I didn't buy the ticket and went straight home to call them and try sort it

They told me to appeal it but the lady on the phone said without having purchasing the ticket it was unlikely to be upheld... which it wasn't. So i've written them a couple of letters explaining my situation and how i feel a bit hard done by. Ive asked twice for a copy of the bylaws they keep mentioning and explained i cannot afford a €60 fine as i'm unemployed (not even my car incidentally, i was doing an errand at the time). Had i not returned to the man issuing the fine i would have bought the ticket and the appeal would most likely have been upheld and i feel very hard done by aside from the fact that the same offence carries a €40 fine from a local authority.

So i sent a cheque of €15 in an effort to settle the matter; not as admission that i felt the fine should stand. Just a goodwill gesture of sorts which was returned as she said they cannot accept part payments which i suppose is fair. To add insult to injury, they have said if i want a copy of the bylaws i must forward a payment of €25

So can anyone tell me what the situation is with a private firm issuing fines like this. I am very tempted to tell them to piss off but if i knew what my rights were i could make an informed decision. Anyone any similar experiences or advice? Thanks for any help

MugMugs

AFAIK Drogheda port DO have Bye Laws in place for parking. Much like Dublin Airport do.

Their Bye Laws should be public though and fully displayed for you to review.

Also, a quick google of "Drogheda Port Bye Laws" gave me this which more or less tells me that they have you by the short and curlys!

bambampop

Yes i read that thread too. I written another letter this morning asking if i can view the bylaws locally but haven't posted it as i thought i'd ask on here what people thought. Doesn't look good does it

MugMugs

Nope but if you don't have the money then what can they take?

If all else fails, propose an installment plan with them of 2 quid a week or something. If they do take you to court you can point that out to the judge who could take it under consideration.

Advice on that has to end there though. We're not allowed give legal advice on threads.

I empathise OP.

bambampop

OK. Thanks for that. Makes me furious, really feel taken advantage of - it's completely greedy if you ask me.

Legal advice aside, Has anyone any similar experiences they could share?

Anan1

bambampop wrote: »

Legal advice aside, Has anyone any similar experiences they could share?

Dún Laoghaire ferryport don't tolerate people wandering off to get change either. If you don't have a valid ticket on display then you get clamped, simples. I just keep coins in the ashtray.

leinster93

Op, afaik and going by drogheda port parking website they are a privately run operation. Minister Leo Varadkar announced new regulations for these privately run operations because at the moment they basically are not regulated. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1101/breaking43.html

Some people would just not give a hoot and wouldn't pay the fine, let the parking company go whatever route they want and if they did take it to court, the court would probably be sympathethic to you as these privately run operations have a bad reputation.

MugMugs

leinster93 wrote: »

Op, afaik and going by drogheda port parking website they are a privately run operation. Minister Leo Varadkar announced new regulations for these privately run operations because at the moment they basically are not regulated. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1101/breaking43.html

Some people would just not give a hoot and wouldn't pay the fine, let the parking company go whatever route they want and if they did take it to court, the court would probably be sympathethic to you as these privately run operations have a bad reputation.

Drogheda port is an "Authority" and have Bye Laws on their side.

Your above link is not relevant.

It's quite like Dublin Airport have Bye Laws to allow their Airport Police invoke certain powers on their land(s)

mullingar

+1.

As it is a legal "authority", the parking ticket should be treated as a legal document.

Chalk it down to bad luck so pay it. Karma will have its way with the warden

If it was a private company who put it on on a private road, I would have been binned it:D

bambampop

OK, i didn't realise it was an 'authority'. It's called Drogheda Port Company. Does their mention of bye-laws imply this?

You mention Karma for the warden, i didn't mention it in the letters but he was a real p***k about it, really seemed to enjoy it. I showed him an envelope i had bought and the receipt from a €20 note just so i could get change. Didn't give a damn.

If i had of just gotten into the car and drove off without him getting it on the windscreen would that have meant anything? I did think about it but thought i would appeal to his better judgement and showed him the envelope and change. More fool me to think he would have any discretion

leinster93

MugMugs wrote: »

Drogheda port is an "Authority" and have Bye Laws on their side.

Your above link is not relevant.

It's quite like Dublin Airport have Bye Laws to allow their Airport Police invoke certain powers on their land(s)

Yep, missed that. Right on Mugs...

OP, you can appeal the fine which is a probably the best route.

bambampop

yes have already appealed and been told no. Thats what is so annoying. I could have walked over to the machine and got the ticket while he was issuing the fine and the appeal would have been upheld. the warden told me it didn't matter

me: "look, i was getting change i'll buy the ticket right now"

Warden: "it doesn't matter, you can appeal it"

I took that to mean it didn't matter if i purchased it or not anymore but it did. I can understand them having a policy of having to issue the ticket once he has started but it was misleading to say that it didn't matter whether or not i purchased it then because it ultimately mattered a lot.

Anan1

bambampop wrote: »

yes have already appealed and been told no. Thats what is so annoying. I could have walked over to the machine and got the ticket while he was issuing the fine and the appeal would have been upheld. the warden told me it didn't matter

me: "look, i was getting change i'll buy the ticket right now"

Warden: "it doesn't matter, you can appeal it"

I took that to mean it didn't matter if i purchased it or not anymore but it did. I can understand them having a policy of having to issue the ticket once he has started but it was misleading to say that it didn't matter whether or not i purchased it then because it ultimately mattered a lot.

I don't mean to sound smart here, but why did you assume that the warden would be familiar with the appeals process? His job is presumably to ticket cars, not to rule on appeals. Given that you did park there, it would seem fairly obvious that proof of payment would be central to any appeal. I'd be a bit annoyed with the warden too, but ultimately the responsibility comes back to you.

bambampop

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't mean to sound smart here, but why did you assume that the warden would be familiar with the appeals process? His job is presumably to ticket cars, not to rule on appeals. Given that you did park there, it would seem fairly obvious that proof of payment would be central to any appeal. I'd be a bit annoyed with the warden too, but ultimately the responsibility comes back to you.

Yeah I can see what you mean but it was a conversation with him that made me rush home and call them. I've never gotten a parking ticket before so can excuse me for not thinking clearly about appeal processes. He said that there was a number on the ticket i could call and in my head i was just thinking get home and call straight away and maybe they would see sense. Hindsight is great but i still feel the impression he gave me was that buying the ticket now was pointless. Thats just the impression i got.

Nobody seems to have any common sense discretion anymore, computer says no! just pisses me off as i like to think if I was on the other end of this I would behave differently. I accept what you're saying about it being my responsibility but ultimately i feel i have been honest and polite and im still being screwed for €60. I'm just venting now. Cheers for the advice

corktina

discretion is all very well and a good idea where someone genuinely has gone for change prior to getting a ticket but how do you tell that guy from the other 99 chancers who are just using that as an excuse?

bambampop

well thats my point. I thought i would appeal to his better judgement by showing him i'd gone to get change. The inference is that i'm a liar and it annoys me because i think i'm honest, that's all.

Anan1

bambampop wrote: »

well thats my point. I thought i would appeal to his better judgement by showing him i'd gone to get change. The inference is that i'm a liar and it annoys me because i think i'm honest, that's all.

I wouldn't take it so personally. From what you've said, it really comes down to unclear/bad advice from a warden and a dose of bad luck. I've got into the habit of keeping a few euros in coins in the car - it becomes second nature, and even apart from parking it can occasionally be a lifesaver.

delly

OP, if it is the same warden i think it is then you would have had no hope of getting off. His reputation is legendary for trying to get people and i have seen him hang back and wait for people to get change in a shop and will pounce in the small window it takes for them to come back. Anybody who has parked outside while in the dole office will know how it feels, he gives no leeway whatsoever.

Fey!

If this is private property, or a privately operated carpark, then how do they have access to your registration details to send out a fine?

MugMugs

Fey! wrote: »

If this is private property, or a privately operated carpark, then how do they have access to your registration details to send out a fine?

MugMugs wrote: »

Also, a quick google of "Drogheda Port Bye Laws" gave me this which more or less tells me that they have you by the short and curlys!

MugMugs wrote: »

Drogheda port is an "Authority" and have Bye Laws on their side.

<snip>

It's quite like Dublin Airport have Bye Laws to allow their Airport Police invoke certain powers on their land(s)

From previously quoted link.

Section 8 of the Data Protection Act exempts from its requirements data required for law enforcement purposes and enforcement of a harbour authority;s bye law is a law enforcement purpose.

The bye laws may criminalise the owner of a vehicle for allowing it to be illegally parker.

All of the above should explain this query.

bambampop

Anan1 wrote: »

I wouldn't take it so personally. From what you've said, it really comes down to unclear/bad advice from a warden and a dose of bad luck. I've got into the habit of keeping a few euros in coins in the car - it becomes second nature, and even apart from parking it can occasionally be a lifesaver.

Sound advice only it isn't my car. I've driven that car twice this year. the first time i hit a pothole and bent the wheel and had to pay €50 to get it trued and the second time i got that fine. Miserable luck

re the warden, he was not the jolly sort that's for sure. I couldn't have been gone from the car more than 2 minutes. maybe he was lurking.

How about i get my tent and head down and start 'occupy north quay' - Just me, the tent and a stereo blasting out rage against the machine