Inheritance arguments

LegacyUser

I'm going anon for this as it's quite a sensitive issue.

Parents are currently trying to decide how the family inheritance will be dealt with. There is 4 in the family, 2girls and 2 boys we all have been educated. Currently as it stand one brother of mine is getting majority of land, assets etc. Girls have received an education and my father deems this enough to keep us happy. Both brothers work at home so it is expected that one will end up working for the other.

I am in my early 20s I don't have a full time job while my sister is employed in another county. To be honest Im finding it difficult to see my dads point of view. He thinks it is fair to give everything to one person whole my mom wants to try and divide it as fairly as possible.

At my age it's also really difficult to even consider where I'll be in another 5 - 10 years. It's causing alot of tension in the house and one brother is thinking of getting married so that is adding to my moms stress of trying to sort it all out.

So if anyone has any insights or advice it'd be really appreciated. Thanks

mikemac

So this is a working farm?

And your mother thinks that the land be sold off and split the assets?

Your Dad may never agree to that, probably he ran the farm all his life and his father before ran it and so on, there is a lot of emotion involved here

dafunk

I'm not sure what advice you're looking for. The decision regarding the inheritance is not yours to make, it's your parents. There is nothing that you can do except to accept the decision they make. Personally I would think the way they are doing things is very old fashioned but if their choices are to sell or give to one child then I can see why they're doing this rather than having to sell.

My only advice is don't let it come between you and your siblings, live with whatever decision is made and move on and don't let it cause rows between any of the the four of ye.

ElleEm

Unfortuneatly this is between both your parents, as it is their stuff.

Granted, it doesn't seem fair that your dad wants your brother to get the farm, and you girls should be happy with your education, but he sounds like a traditional man. Maybe he thinks that you and your sister are gonna find men to support you. You should speak with him about this and see where he's coming from. Then you can explain your point.

I also agree with Mike, if this is a family farm, I'm sure your dad would never want to imagine it being sold, so think of it from his perspective.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I think the advice I am lookin for is as a 24 year old should I be overly concerned about the issue considering I am a long way off settling dow?.

My parents are very traditional but it will not be sold as both my brothers live on and work it. The farm is not my fathers, my mother inherited it but it is now jointly owned between them. I suppose I feel it's unfair that my dad wants to give it all to one brother. It's an unequal offering.

We are all being given a say in what we want to receive so in that sense my parents are being quite reasonable. But I'm 24 how am I supposed to know what I want/need??!!

I am a friend

Talk to your siblings and see what they think.

But as another poster stated - it's your parents assets not yours to decide on.

Distorted

Always seems to happen in farming families and so often seems to cause great divisions. No wonder, it is unfair and old fashioned. In my partner's family, there seems to be a history going back generations of leaving the farm to the feckless younger brother. Who has invariably lost it later on. The eldest brother for the past 3 generations has not hung around the farm, waiting to inherit, but has got a good job and bought his own farm on the proceeds, the daughters have got jobs and got married.

You would think they would learn from this, but no, when my partner's grandfather died, the farm was left to his youngest son, the one who stayed at home, the eldest son was cut out and went off in a huff saying he wanted nothing more to to do with the rest of them, one of the sisters sided with the brother and got the will changed at the last minute to leave her some cash, and my partner's mother fell out with them all! Last I heard, the youngest brother has mortgaged a mortgage free property and no signs of investment in the farm.

A lot of it seems to stem from, I think, leaving it til the last minute to raise these issues. Have you tried discussing it with your father, adult to adult? The only way to make him see sense might be to back up your mother and make her stand her ground. Even if the farm is to be left to one of you to keep it a viable going concern, why should it automatically be a brother? It might be fairer if the rest of you got something too, such as a building plot for a house in the future. Depends on how big a farm we're talking about and how much in the way of buildings and houses there are.

But no, I don't think you're under any obligation just to accept it quietly without saying your piece. Just because things have always been done a certain way doesn't mean they should always be done a certain way. It might be that someone who has gone out and got an education, job and mortgage and dealt with such issues might make a better job of coming back to running the farm. Did either of your brothers bother themselves to go to agricultural college or learn about finance or admin, or even some more practical skills like building maintenance and roofing and slating? Did they go away to other farms abroad on farmstays to improve their breadth of knowledge?

Animord

I presume the farm is the main or only asset? ie there isn't a stash of cash that the girls would get?

The fairest way to do it is to leave the farm to all of you and who ever actually takes it over buys out the others. This would have its own problems because it might not being making enough to enable the 'farmer' to do this.

Its hard if your parents see this as a traditional type thing, though it is odd if your mother brought the farm into the family in the first place.

The only real bit of advice I would have is to make sure it is all sorted out before anything happens to your parents - I know of too many cases where it is not - then you end up with siblings hating each other and taking court cases and, of course, the only financial winners then are the solicitors.

Good luck.

Emme

Inheritancearguments wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I think the advice I am lookin for is as a 24 year old should I be overly concerned about the issue considering I am a long way off settling dow?.

My parents are very traditional but it will not be sold as both my brothers live on and work it. The farm is not my fathers, my mother inherited it but it is now jointly owned between them. I suppose I feel it's unfair that my dad wants to give it all to one brother. It's an unequal offering.

We are all being given a say in what we want to receive so in that sense my parents are being quite reasonable. But I'm 24 how am I supposed to know what I want/need??!!

Your mother should have an equal say in what happens but I'm from a farming background and the tradition of primogeniture (everything goes to the eldest son) persists on most farms. That's changing now, even that most staid of institutions, the british royal family have recently changed that rule. Not that we should follow their example in Ireland but I think their recent decision to allow daughters equal rights to sons is a good one.

In most cases the majority of assets goes to the eldest son, even in cases where a daughter living near home cares for the elderly parents and the eldest son emigrated after graduating from college. Some cases are more equitable, I know of one family where the eldest son got the lion's share and his 2 brothers and 2 sisters got educated to primary degree level. Both brothers emigrated and did well for themselves and when the sisters married (in their 20s) they got a certain amount of money for themselves as a dowry, so to speak.

It may not be possible to do this in your case but if you want to do a masters degree or some form of further education I think you have a right to ask for support. You say you aren't supposed to know what you want or need at 24 - well if you don't ask now you might not have the chance to ask for help again.

I would agree with your mother that the assets should be divided more fairly, perhaps you, your brother and your sister should get some help towards buying places of your own.

Good luck. It would be a shame to see your father railroad his opinion onto everyone else, particularly as he married into a farm which was originally inherited/owned by your mother. However the decision is up to them and nobody else.

solovely

You're 24 - why on earth are you worrying about this now? I presume your parents have a good while left to go.

Also, at 24 you should not be relying on their parents, living or dead to provide you with an income. Don't you think it's time you stood on your own two feet. I know things are tough in Ireland now, but by the time this all happens and your parents pass away, you will probably be well married with kids, and hopefully not still waiting around for a bit of land that you have no interest in farming.

I come from a farming family, and would absolutely hate to think of my siblings and I arguing over who got what - as would my parents. But they had a hard time with land and wouldn't really want any of us to follow that path. At 31, I earn more than my parents do combined, and can't imagine ever wanting or waiting around for anything other than sentimental stuff from them.

If your brother likes the farming life and that's what he wants to do, and you have no interest in it, then why should he not get the farm? If, on the other hand, you would like to be a farmer and have a really strong interest and desire to do this, would you go to ag college, do some courses, work all your spare hours on the farm (as it sounds like your brother does) to show that your commitment is real, and not just about the money?

"Getting" land is not as easy option - it requires giving yourself over to a life or hard labour, heartache, no free time, devotion basically, so thinking your brother is getting an easy ride of it is a bit mad. He will probably work for your parents for a basic wage for the next 20 years, build a house on the land that he doesn't quite own, and finally when his own kids are close to growing up get it handed over to him - while you and your other siblings build up your careers elsewhere without any burdens or obligations.

I'm sorry that I sound annoyed in my post, as I know it can be quite an emotive issue, but this sense of entitlement that a lot of people seem to have these days (whether they be farmer's kids or D4 kids with rich daddies wanting them to buy them a house/ car), it really gets my goat. What happened to working hard for yourself and building your own life?

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies.

I wish I did not have to worry about this issue but it is currently an ongoing issue in the family home. It is building and building and leading to major tension between my parents which is obviously not very pleasant, with my dad waiting for my mother to "make up her mind".

@distorted, all of the family received an equal education, both if my brothers went to Ag college in Ireland and then to the UK for further training and specialism, both have also farmed in Australia and America. I have absolutely NO issue withthem continuing to farm.

However I do feel it is unjust for my dad to give everything to one brother while my ogre brother has to continue to work at home and have nothing.

I realise that I am never going to become a farmer and agree that it should be given to my brothers.

@solovely, it is an ongoing problem in my house hence the "worry" at 24! I am well able to stand on my own two feet and yea I know farming us a tough life but so is any job. The issue is the farm itself is worth more money than I will ever earn. Why then is it fair fir one of four to get the whole lot? You say I should not be relying in my parents for an income, I'm nit but my brother is, do you think this is right?

From having read everyone's helpful posts it seems I and my sister should ideally ask for a site and cash inheritance. My dad is not a great listener so hopefully it will all work itself out and not lead to any hard feelings, however I think this itself may be an impossibility.

Animord

solovely wrote: »

You're 24 - why on earth are you worrying about this now? I presume your parents have a good while left to go.

Also, at 24 you should not be relying on their parents, living or dead to provide you with an income. Don't you think it's time you stood on your own two feet. I know things are tough in Ireland now, but by the time this all happens and your parents pass away, you will probably be well married with kids, and hopefully not still waiting around for a bit of land that you have no interest in farming.

I come from a farming family, and would absolutely hate to think of my siblings and I arguing over who got what - as would my parents. But they had a hard time with land and wouldn't really want any of us to follow that path. At 31, I earn more than my parents do combined, and can't imagine ever wanting or waiting around for anything other than sentimental stuff from them.

If your brother likes the farming life and that's what he wants to do, and you have no interest in it, then why should he not get the farm? If, on the other hand, you would like to be a farmer and have a really strong interest and desire to do this, would you go to ag college, do some courses, work all your spare hours on the farm (as it sounds like your brother does) to show that your commitment is real, and not just about the money?

"Getting" land is not as easy option - it requires giving yourself over to a life or hard labour, heartache, no free time, devotion basically, so thinking your brother is getting an easy ride of it is a bit mad. He will probably work for your parents for a basic wage for the next 20 years, build a house on the land that he doesn't quite own, and finally when his own kids are close to growing up get it handed over to him - while you and your other siblings build up your careers elsewhere without any burdens or obligations.

I'm sorry that I sound annoyed in my post, as I know it can be quite an emotive issue, but this sense of entitlement that a lot of people seem to have these days (whether they be farmer's kids or D4 kids with rich daddies wanting them to buy them a house/ car), it really gets my goat. What happened to working hard for yourself and building your own life?

^^ This isn't really the point though? OP's parents are dealing with it and discussing it now. They are clearly divided on the subject and the OP appears to have asked for her input. She is not saying she is not going to earn her living or anything else. She is just (sensibly imo) asking advice on what is, as you so clearly state in your own post, a highly difficult and emotive situation.

mikemac

It's good to talk anyway OP, might be an idea to call a family meeting or at least ask the parents to call one when they are ready

You know if anything happens to the parents like god forbid a car accident before this is finalized, then you must avoid the solicitors getting the money.
These can be messy, nasty and bitter and even if a sibling win a court case the real winner were the multiple solicitors clocking up the billable hours.

LegacyUser

I think you should firstly recognise that any of the items you're discussing (farm, property, moeny, etc) are your parents, therefore do not belong to you or your siblings and have no 'rights' to feel these things are yours to divide amongst yourselves. At 24 yrs of age it is not up to your parents to ensure you have everything you need for your life, its up to you to provide for yourself, and any help you receive from your parents is an act of generosity.

I'm from a city background but know friends who have been involved in farming backgrounds and the hassle that comes with this uncomfortable issues. Most of the time i have seen the farm is left to the person who has been working on it and looking after it, and other assets are split equally between siblings. Tbh i think thats fair enough, a farm is a business with a lot of emotion and sentiment, if one person has worked for years on it then its hardly fair for them to get 1/4 of it when people who did not work on it get same. However in your situation two brothers work on it, i think this makes it difficult because if the farm is divided it may no longer be a viable business. If it is sold and the cash divided up then it leaves your two brothers homeless and jobless and your parents business gone.

Honestly i think everyone should take a step back and realise that nobody is entitled and stop holding out their hands. I think you should all really listen to your parents views and emotions on this and create a constructive dialogue together.

LegacyUser

perhaps you should all take a step back and relaise what you are discussing is your parents death and stop letting greed take over. it can't be pleasant for them to have such a nasty atmosphere in their home when discussing their death

LegacyUser

@ dodgy territory, it may be difficult for you to understand this but I come from a family where my parents WANT to try and help towards my future. I know that the assets are not mine, my sisters or my brothers but obviously for my parents they want it to be inherited and kept in the family. Please re read my posts and you will see that my parents cannot decide what to do. That is the problem. You will also read that constructive dialogue is very difficult for my father.

@ familynotgreed, if you would take the time to read my posts you will see that my parents want to decide on what will be done. Death doesn't even come into it, the farm, land etc will be divided in the next few years. Indeed it is a horrible topic to try and discuss but that is because my parents want different things. My mother sees the value girls are to the family and equally the amount of work we put into the house when at home, my dad does not see this contribution, therefore the eldest boy is the only one who should recieve anything. In his eyes we should be getting married and that be the end if it!!

LegacyUser

I'm from a farming background and I'll be left a site to build a house on if I want to... my brother that now farms will be getting the farm.

My parents bought the farm over 40 years ago and toiled to eventually pay it off so they really don't want to see the land being split up etc. Which I agree with myself.

I have no issue with my brother getting the farm either, he's willing to work it etc.

As the farm isn't mine... It's my parents I will respect their wishes.. My other siblings and I have been educated to a high standard while my brother stayed at home dealing with the hardship that comes with farming.

I really would hate to see the farm being broken up to suit one unhappy sibling or a sibling who thought they were entitled to more when they'd never done anything to aid the up keep or running of the farm. It's your parents at the end of the day. I'd go with their wishes rather than breaking up my family, the farm and going against my parents wishes when they are gone.

Beruthiel

Inheritanceargument wrote: »

My mother sees the value girls are to the family and equally the amount of work we put into the house when at home, my dad does not see this contribution, therefore the eldest boy is the only one who should recieve anything.

But you don't work the farm, he does.
Now, your other brother probably has a right to part of it too as he also works it.
But, you have been educated and will at some point start living your life away from home.

I have three sisters, the one that still lives in the hometown will be getting the house as my mother wants it to stay in the family.
The rest of us have no problem with that and expect nothing. We have our own lives now.

I suggest you leave it to your parents to decide whatever they wish.
They have done their best by you already and you have been given the best possible start in life.
Stop worrying about it and get on with living.

thefeatheredcat

Inheritancearguments wrote: »

Parents are currently trying to decide how the family inheritance will be dealt with. There is 4 in the family, 2girls and 2 boys we all have been educated. Currently as it stand one brother of mine is getting majority of land, assets etc. Girls have received an education and my father deems this enough to keep us happy. Both brothers work at home so it is expected that one will end up working for the other.

Going back to the OP on this because really, the indecision on behalf of your parents and the stress relating to it is the issue.

Firstly, you should encourage them to go and see someone who can give them practical unbiased advice.

The land/farm was inherited by your mother and in joint ownership, thus I would suppose in her eyes she has an equal say in the event of their passing, who gets what, while your father believes it just should go to the eldest. So there's a compromise that will have to be made somewhere between them and the children just have to respect their wishes, whether it suits each individual or not.

I know a few families through my parents that have ended up selling up the farm and land to property developers only because there was nobody interested in farming and in those cases, they got some of the money, but not all. It would be worthwhile for your parents to talk to other farmers who have been through discussing inheritance and the process and see what alternative solutions there are and the value of all involved.

As for the rest, you can put your point across to your father if you consider his way of being unfair, and your concerns regarding your brother. If he sees as what you contribute as being no value, then that's the mindset he has and that cannot be changed and you have to respect that, however you may disagree with it.

Regarding yourself and your siblings, it could be left up to you all to settle things between ye for all you know how it will pan out. Don't let it tear you apart as a family or resort to squabbling over it or battling against the wishes over a principle or point that destroys what you have as siblings together.

I think really, involving the children in the inheritance discussion when the parents are in disagreement is not a wise way to go. They should really work this out between themselves, talk to some people, some agencies, come to some sort of agreement after taking on board advice, and then present it and only discuss it in terms of who has interest or no interest in the main asset which is the working farm/land/house, put that aside and see what's left over or what can be provided for at which both parents agree to.

Mighty_Mouse

Expect nothing to be handed to you in this life.
You father presumably is handing the farm "business" to the person best suited to continue this "business".

Its not just a case of land with value & drawing lines on a map.
If you split the farm into nothing then the business is worth nothing.

Keep your head down. Sort your life out for yourself.