The new super checkpoints.

ScouseMouse

A friend of mine got stopped at one of the new "supercheckpoints" today, down on the N11 at Newtownmountkennedy. He was going south towards Wexford.

First guard checked his window discs and details

Second officer was customs who dipped his tank for green diesel.

Then Social Welfare started questioning him about name, PPS number etc etc.

I understand the gardai and customs have the right to do this.

But can a social welfare officer/inspector/head do the same?

While I have absolutely nothing to hide, I would be inclined to tell the social welfare guy to feck off and mind his own business.

Do they have any power to stop and question you?

Victor

I believe they do.

kildare.17hmr

i was stopped at one a while back in finglas, they were letting cars through but checking all commercial vehicles said it was cracking down on people claiming and working

ScouseMouse

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i was stopped at one a while back in finglas, they were letting cars through but checking all commercial vehicles said it was cracking down on people claiming and working

I know they do it, and why, but are they entitled?

He got dipped as he was driving a diesel focus, but got the all clear.

He was late for an appointment and told the social welfare guy to "ask the guard, he has all my details"

Thought that was a good answer.

I have never been dipped in six years driving diesels, but keep hearing about it.

This got me thinking.

jimmycrackcorm

superscouse wrote: »

Then Social Welfare started questioning him about name, PPS number etc etc.

Who actually knows their pps off the top of thier head? I have to find a payslip to find mine.

Victor

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Who actually knows their pps off the top of thier head?

Lots of people. Even those that carry their PPS card. Name and date of birth will usualy find it though.

dermot_sheehan

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0009/sec0013.html

(16) For the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, a social welfare inspector may, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána in uniform, or an officer of the Customs and Excise in uniform—

(a) stop any vehicle, and

(b) on production of his or her certificate of appointment where so requested—

(i) question and make enquiries of any person in the vehicle or in the vicinity of the vehicle, and

(ii) require such person, where the social welfare inspector reasonably suspects that the vehicle is being used in the course of employment or self-employment, to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to the employment or self-employment of such person which such person has possession of in the vehicle

Delancey

Those super checkpoints are common in the UK where as well as Police , Customs , Social Security they also have present people from the UK Borders Agency checking on work permits , etc.

2qk4u

These checkpoints often have a member of the taxi regulators enforcement team too.

ANSI

require such person, where the social welfare inspector reasonably suspects that the vehicle is being used in the course of employment or self-employment, to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to the employment or self-employment of such person which such person has possession of in the vehicle

where was the reasonable suspicion in the OP case. what would constitute reasonable suspicion

Delancey

ANSI wrote: »

where was the reasonable suspicion in the OP case. what would constitute reasonable suspicion

Driving a white van

Victor

ANSI wrote: »

where was the reasonable suspicion in the OP case. what would constitute reasonable suspicion

Garda: Can I ask you where you are heading?
Driver: I'm heading to work in Dublin.
Garda: Please talk to the social welfare inspector.

Garda: Can I ask you where you are heading?
Driver: I'm dropping off a delivery in Naas.
Garda: Please talk to the social welfare inspector.

ScouseMouse

Some excellent points there. They really do seem to have all the bases covered.

The guy they stopped was driving a diesel ford focus. I must ask him exactly what they said.

I do know he gave the social welfare inspector short shrift.

Thanks everyone, very interesting.

Marcusm

Victor wrote: »

Garda: Can I ask you where you are heading?
Driver: I'm heading to work in Dublin.
Garda: Please talk to the social welfare inspector.

Garda: Can I ask you where you are heading?
Driver: I'm dropping off a delivery in Naas.
Garda: Please talk to the social welfare inspector.

Not wishing to be too pedantic but in the first example I think the person would be entitled to refuse any questions of the social welfare inspector - using a vehicle to travel to work is not using it in the course of employment or self employment; it is being used as a means to travel to such employment or self employment. Fully agree with your second example, however.

rosser44

Victor wrote: »

Garda: Can I ask you where you are heading?
Driver: I'm heading to work in Dublin.
Garda: Please talk to the social welfare inspector.

First off I would like to say that I have upmost respect for the Gardai and the work they do, but for the sake of arguement it is my understanding that you are under no obligation to provide an answer to the 1st question quoted above? Just looking for clarification, none of the "well if you've got nothing to hide why not answer" etc please.

godtabh

Marcusm wrote: »

Not wishing to be too pedantic but in the first example I think the person would be entitled to refuse any questions of the social welfare inspector - using a vehicle to travel to work is not using it in the course of employment or self employment; it is being used as a means to travel to such employment or self employment. Fully agree with your second example, however.

If you are heading to work you could be still claiming the dole so a quick chat with social will clear up any "miss understandings".

Potential-Monke

godtabh wrote: »

If you are heading to work you could be still claiming the dole so a quick chat with social will clear up any "miss understandings".

Who's Miss Understandings?

On topic, i'm delighted this is going on. Hopefully they catch all the cons, especially those who use work vehicles for private purposes. And you're quite entitled to not answer any questions but that would (in my opinion) lead to reasonable suspicion that you are attempting to hide something, and would probably lead to you being arrested for investigation. And damn right too!

Our man in Havana

Social welfare have no powers of arrest.

Potential-Monke

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Social welfare have no powers of arrest.

No, but the Gardai do and they would work in tandem with the Social to investigate Fraud.

BrianD

The should add in the District Nurse and he or she can enquire if you've had a flu jab, got any contagious diseases etc.

They could then make these check points self financing by having an extra position for a man with a sandwich board who can sell you something. He pays for his pitch.

godtabh

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Who's Miss Understandings?

Just a figure of speech.

Either way if you tell the Gardai that you are off to work and it is a social welfare check point they'll just be caring out checks to make sure all is in order. Fair play to them I say.

HellFireClub

I know what my reaction would be, as someone who recently started up a small business, if I found myself being interrogated by someone from Social Welfare.

How any person who is completely and selfishly protected from savage austerity via their utterly corrupt Croke Park Agreement, could with a straight face, try to question any person who is currently trying to keep a private sector employment going, or try to question a person who is struggling to survive on the dole, (and I've recently been that person!), is repugnant to me.

I accept that the legal situation is that this can be done, but if I ran into this, I wouldn't be found wanting in terms of what I'd have to say about it.

Seriously, who is the bigger threat to the Irish economy at the moment, me trying to legally and lawfully grow a small business with fuk all suppport from any quarter, or the social welfare inspector who is on probably 60k a year plus expenses, who can't be fired or who still can't held to account for anything, after 15 years of automatic social partnership/gravy train pay increments?!?!?

MagicSean

HellFireClub wrote: »

I know what my reaction would be, as someone who recently started up a small business, if I found myself being interrogated by someone from Social Welfare.

How any person who is completely and selfishly protected from savage austerity via their utterly corrupt Croke Park Agreement, could with a straight face, try to question any person who is currently trying to keep a private sector employment going, or try to question a person who is struggling to survive on the dole, (and I've recently been that person!), is repugnant to me.

I accept that the legal situation is that this can be done, but if I ran into this, I wouldn't be found wanting in terms of what I'd have to say about it.

Seriously, who is the bigger threat to the Irish economy at the moment, me trying to legally and lawfully grow a small business with fuk all suppport from any quarter, or the social welfare inspector who is on probably 60k a year plus expenses, who can't be fired or who still can't held to account for anything, after 15 years of automatic social partnership/gravy train pay increments?!?!?

I'd hardly call it a complete protection from savage austerity. The pay cheque may be the same as last year but the work conditions are appauling.

ScouseMouse

HellFireClub wrote: »

I know what my reaction would be, as someone who recently started up a small business, if I found myself being interrogated by someone from Social Welfare.

How any person who is completely and selfishly protected from savage austerity via their utterly corrupt Croke Park Agreement, could with a straight face, try to question any person who is currently trying to keep a private sector employment going, or try to question a person who is struggling to survive on the dole, (and I've recently been that person!), is repugnant to me.

I accept that the legal situation is that this can be done, but if I ran into this, I wouldn't be found wanting in terms of what I'd have to say about it.

Seriously, who is the bigger threat to the Irish economy at the moment, me trying to legally and lawfully grow a small business with fuk all suppport from any quarter, or the social welfare inspector who is on probably 60k a year plus expenses, who can't be fired or who still can't held to account for anything, after 15 years of automatic social partnership/gravy train pay increments?!?!?

VERY WELL SAID.

schemingbohemia

HellFireClub wrote: »

I know what my reaction would be, as someone who recently started up a small business, if I found myself being interrogated by someone from Social Welfare.

How any person who is completely and selfishly protected from savage austerity via their utterly corrupt Croke Park Agreement, could with a straight face, try to question any person who is currently trying to keep a private sector employment going, or try to question a person who is struggling to survive on the dole, (and I've recently been that person!), is repugnant to me.

I accept that the legal situation is that this can be done, but if I ran into this, I wouldn't be found wanting in terms of what I'd have to say about it.

Seriously, who is the bigger threat to the Irish economy at the moment, me trying to legally and lawfully grow a small business with fuk all suppport from any quarter, or the social welfare inspector who is on probably 60k a year plus expenses, who can't be fired or who still can't held to account for anything, after 15 years of automatic social partnership/gravy train pay increments?!?!?

So you think that reducing Fraudulent Social Welfare claims is a waste of time? Surely it's in your and the entire country's interest to have these claims challenged.

Social Welfare Inspectors like all other civil servants had their pay cut and taxes increased in the last few years, and can indeed be fired though I agree too few are.