"Painkillers"

earlyevening

I hope this doesn't contravene the medical advice ban in the charter but I just thought a little generalised info would help.

I noticed a few people recently writing about taking codeine (solpadeine/nurofen plus..) before a race to help cope with expected muscle pain. Codeine causes drowsiness and possibly respiratory depression which isn't going to help your race.

Equally, someone was taking nurofen (an NSAID-ibuprofen) during DCM. This, when you're dehyrated could result in serious kidney damage.

I'd suggest everyone who does this check these points with their GP/pharmacist if they want clarification.

JohnnyCrash

Plus, you take painkillers FOR pain,not to prevent it. Not a great idea to be running,cause damage and not feel it,could make a problem a whole lot worse!!!

Brianderunner

The way i see it if something works for you on race day and helps you to a pb its worth taking the slight health risk for, within reason. Depends how important running is to you i guess.

Raighne

There is a reasonable detailed summary of the lack of benefits and risks of this approach here: http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/medicationanddrugs/a/NSAID_endurance.htm

Personally my view is that your health is the fundamental part on which all your performance is based in particularly long-term performance. NSAIDs detract from your health, they do not add to it and have stopped using them completely for any type of ailment. I have had conditions such as tooth-ache and migraine which is pain on an entirely different scale than anything ever experienced in any race (long or short) and for those I have employed NSAIDs (and even morphine in the case of migraines. Thankfully, I grew out of the latter) simply because the pain is incapacitating.

I have raced on race in my life on Nurofen (because I had a tooth-ache at the time) and I had the worst stomach cramps imaginable afterwards seemingly mirroring the findings noted in the link.

As a coach and from an ethical perspective I would not work with an athlete using Nurofen purposefully as it would suggest an attitude and set of priorities that are not compatible with my own ethos. It is similarly to what some of the coaches explained to us during the Lydiard seminar in Boulder: if you encounter an anorexic runner your job as a coach is to manage her out of the sport over a number of years as the running only feeds the condition. People can do what they want, but coaches shouldn't encourage people down a destructive path.

earlyevening

I'd also add that it takes about 30 mins for NSAIDS to take effect so the idea of taking them on the UCD flyover to get rid of a niggle isn't credible. Its the placebo effect at best.

dahat

Nurofen or most importantly Ibuprofen being the active ingrediant should never be taken on an empty stomach,there is a reason they are sugar coated!!
As a rule one could assume if a tablet is coated like a smartie type coat it is like that for a reason,gental absorption to prevent cramps etc..........

Not all NASID's give the cramps etc ibuprofen give on an empty stomach.
I have moderate non progressive arthritis and as part of my medical regime i take 15 mg of Mobic daily,if needed,i tend not to use it if i feel good.....but i have taken it on empty,full,half full and never got cramps from it.

TFBubendorfer

My personal view is that if there is a pain, I'd better know about it.

If the pain is not bad, then it's just a matter of HTFU. No need for pain killers.

If the pain is bad, then it's better to drop out rather than taking pain killers with the risk of doing permanent damage to yourself.

Either way, you're better off without.

ecoli

Pain is your bodies way of telling your brain that something is not right by blocking pain it doesn't make things better but simply just blocks the message to the brain and creates more problems for the person and can result in more permanent damage

Read a psychological study on something similar few years back. Dont have a link to it but this should give an idea of the advantages of pain

http://articles.cnn.com/2006-02-03/health/btsc.oppenheim_1_prosthetic-eye-pain-small-bites?_s=PM:HEALTH

dahat

The little running i do i choose to do with pain owing to psosatic arthritis so i do need pain killers after running but never use them to run if ya get me.
For me they are essential but for fit healthy people i would advise them not too...

Oryx

Would anyone else consider taking painkillers prior to a race a form of cheating? If they are taken to enhance performance I would see it as wrong. Its the thin end of the wedge to me. I also heard of someone recommending another non painkiller non prescription drug for racing. I think if youre going down that route, then youve lost the whole point behind what you are doing.

And thats before you even get to the point that a painkiller will mask possible injury, or have health risks, as mentioned above.

FionaOD5

A huge amount of runners were hospitilised last year after the New York city marathon with renal failure as a result of taking NSAIDS before the race (ibruprofen, neurofen, difene etc). be very careful!!!

D Chief

FionaOD5 wrote: »

A huge amount of runners were hospitilised last year after the New York city marathon with renal failure as a result of taking NSAIDS before the race (ibruprofen, neurofen, difene etc). be very careful!!!

Huge? How many is 'a huge amount'? Any source to back up this statement?

Rantan

...kidney failure from nurofen? Seems a little sensationalist to be honest, there has to be an issue of personal responsibility here, of course this is open to abuse like everything. . What amount of nurofen/difene would oyu need to take to cause kidney failure? What other circumstances need to be considered? I took a nurofen in 2 halves 18m & 22m in DCM this year and I am hoping my kidneys are OK now? To be honest I'm not sure if it helped really, It only took affect as I finished, so it helped me when I stopped running which had been a probelm for me before, ie legs/and muscles seizing up. I had checked with a pharmacist before the race and was told 1 nurofen should not cause any damage.

TFBubendorfer

Rantan wrote: »

...kidney failure from nurofen? Seems a little sensationalist to be honest

No, there are plenty of cases where NSAIDs caused renal failure. Ultra runners are even more affected. One case I remember is Erik Skaggs, a top American ultra runner who nearly died 2 days after a fantastic performance in a 100k race.

If you google "Erik Skaggs renal failure", you'll get plenty of details.

tunney

Rantan wrote: »

...kidney failure from nurofen? Seems a little sensationalist to be honest, there has to be an issue of personal responsibility here, of course this is open to abuse like everything. . What amount of nurofen/difene would oyu need to take to cause kidney failure? What other circumstances need to be considered? I took a nurofen in 2 halves 18m & 22m in DCM this year and I am hoping my kidneys are OK now? To be honest I'm not sure if it helped really, It only took affect as I finished, so it helped me when I stopped running which had been a probelm for me before, ie legs/and muscles seizing up. I had checked with a pharmacist before the race and was told 1 nurofen should not cause any damage.

There is a big link between ibuprofen and serious illness and even death. I heard of two deaths in three races from it. Its the combination of iboprofen and hot weather literally can be a killer

"On the kidney failure front, I hope there was no ibuprofen used as part of the race day pain management strategy....I've heard of pretty bad things happening when dehydration, low sodium and NSAIDs being used at once. "

from http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Ironman_France_-_Scott_Thompson_P3407685/

This was just one of a few cases of it from euro races this year.

ThisRegard

A work colleague in the UK was taking neurofen as part of his marathon training and race itself last year due to a small niggle he picked up early in his program. He was off injured for a long time afterwards and swears he'll never run another marathon, I'm not sure he ever made the connection.

Rantan

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

No, there are plenty of cases where NSAIDs caused renal failure. Ultra runners are even more affected. One case I remember is Erik Skaggs, a top American ultra runner who nearly died 2 days after a fantastic performance in a 100k race.

If you google "Erik Skaggs renal failure", you'll get plenty of details.

Your not giving the full account of this. Can you categorically say that they were the "cause" of his renal failure?

From Skaggs own account..
.
".. it may have played a minor role; .......... Because I ran so hard, I had a huge amount of muscle damage. And because I was dehydrated, there was nothing to flush the waste through my system..."
Also he had taken 5 tablets during the race. I am not arguing that there is no risk associated with taking meds during/beofre or after a race but I think its important to keep things in perspective and consider all of the facts.

Rantan

tunney wrote: »

There is a big link between ibuprofen and serious illness and even death. I heard of two deaths in three races from it. Its the combination of iboprofen and hot weather literally can be a killer

"On the kidney failure front, I hope there was no ibuprofen used as part of the race day pain management strategy....I've heard of pretty bad things happening when dehydration, low sodium and NSAIDs being used at once. "

from http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Ironman_France_-_Scott_Thompson_P3407685/

This was just one of a few cases of it from euro races this year.

there is no mention of ibuprofen any where in the medical diagnosis at any stage in that blog. Sorry that doesn;t prove anything...it seems that dehydration is the big problem. Deal with the causes of that first IMO.

earlyevening

Another point is that it takes 2hrs for nurofen to achieve peak plasma concentration following ingestion. Its deffo the placebo effect if people are taking them at mile 22 of a marathon and feeling better at mile 23 (unless they went miserably slowly!)

TFBubendorfer

Rantan wrote: »

Your not giving the full account of this. Can you categorically say that they were the "cause" of his renal failure?

From Skaggs own account..
.
".. it may have played a minor role; .......... Because I ran so hard, I had a huge amount of muscle damage. And because I was dehydrated, there was nothing to flush the waste through my system..."
Also he had taken 5 tablets during the race. I am not arguing that there is no risk associated with taking meds during/beofre or after a race but I think its important to keep things in perspective and consider all of the facts.

Well, I was not in the treatment room, so I do not know the exact details. Maybe me saying "caused" was wrong, but Erik saying "it played a minor role" would be in denial, in my personal opinion. Muscle damage from hard running CAN cause kidney failure (google "Rhabdomyolysis" for details) but from what I remember, that wasn't the case with Skaggs.

Maybe you should take a step back yourself and stop denying that ibuprofen use can indeed be a serious problem.

FionaOD5

Okokok- maybe the use of the word huge was misplaced here.... But I'm not just passing on rumours. Check out the following ;

Ibuprofen use during extreme exercise;effects on oxidative stress + PGE2. McAnulty et al 2007.

Effects of NSAIDS on muscle injury and oxidative stress. McAnulty et al 2007.

Use of NSAID in long distance runners: a risk factor for sudden death. Johnson et al 1989

Hyponatremia, cerebral edema + non cardiogenic pulmonary edema in marathon runners. Ayus et al 2000

The last one is the scariest. I only made the comment re new York - last yrs race because I was at the race this year and was speaking to a marshal who said they had many people hospitalised who had taken painkillers to race. I was saying the only way I could run was with a belly full of neurofen. That's why he made the comment. )) phew......

FionaOD5

Okokok- maybe the use of the word huge was misplaced here.... But I'm not just passing on rumours. Check out the following ;

Ibuprofen use during extreme exercise;effects on oxidative stress + PGE2. McAnulty et al 2007.

Effects of NSAIDS on muscle injury and oxidative stress. McAnulty et al 2007.

Use of NSAID in long distance runners: a risk factor for sudden death. Johnson et al 1989

Hyponatremia, cerebral edema + non cardiogenic pulmonary edema in marathon runners. Ayus et al 2000

The last one is the scariest. I only made the comment re new York - last yrs race because I was at the race this year and was speaking to a marshal who said they had many people hospitalised who had taken painkillers to race. I was saying the only way I could run was with a belly full of neurofen. That's why he made the comment. )) phew......

anymore

D Chief wrote: »

Huge? How many is 'a huge amount'? Any source to back up this statement?

Come on , poster is jsut making a general statement !

Hard Worker

There was a study done a few years ago on why 40 professional footballers died from sudden adult death syndrome in a 5 year period in Europe. While post mortems may have been inconclusive in some cases, the one thing that they all had in common was that they had recently returned from injury. When footballers are injured, it is important that they get back playing asap. Most physios put them on NSAIDS, including the old reliable, diclofenac. It certainly may be a wonder drug in terms of pain relief etc, however, these drugs do not mix with strenuous exercise without other side effects, some of which can be fatal.