M7 Exit 10 (Newbridge/Naas South)

bbuzz

So the Naas bypass was finished a few years before the Newbridge bypass. But does anybody have any pictures or maps showing how the M7 linked into the Newbridge dual carraigeway.

You can see where the improvements to the Newbridge dual carriageway end, about 300m after the bridge the Armco and curb ends.

I've looked at google maps, but I can't see any abandoned road like there is on the M1 or at the end of the Kildare bypass at exit 14.

totoal

this what you mean?

bbuzz

^^^ That's the future Osbertown junction.

I'm talking about further down the M7. Basically what the end of the Naas bypass looked like before the Newbridge bypass was built.

niloc1951

bbuzz wrote: »

So the Naas bypass was finished a few years before the Newbridge bypass. But does anybody have any pictures or maps showing how the M7 linked into the Newbridge dual carraigeway.

You can see where the improvements to the Newbridge dual carriageway end, about 300m after the bridge the Armco and curb ends.

I've looked at google maps, but I can't see any abandoned road like there is on the M1 or at the end of the Kildare bypass at exit 14.

There was no M7 at that time, the Naas bypass was a continuation of the old Naas dual-carriageway (from Newlands Cross) which was extended and ran straight to Newbridge,
When the Newbridge bypass opened it was an extension of the Naas bypass and the current section of dual-carriageway into Newbridge became a 'spur' off it.
Can't remember when the designation was changed from N to M or when the speed limit changed.

The curved hedge line at the top of the view would represent the northern boundary of the original carriageway

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.20865,-6.7141853&z=17&t=h&hl=en

murphaph

niloc1951 wrote: »

There was no M7 at that time

The Naas Bypass opened as M7 in 1983, indeed it was the first bit of road opened as a motorway in the RoI.

The N7 from the end on the bypass to Newbridge must have been dualled at the same time as the motorway was built (or shortly afterwards) as the old N7 (where Aldi have their distribution centre etc.) from Naas to the M7 is and was always single carriageway.

niloc1951

murphaph wrote: »

The Naas Bypass opened as M7 in 1983, indeed it was the first bit of road opened as a motorway in the RoI.

The N7 from the end on the bypass to Newbridge must have been dualled at the same time as the motorway was built (or shortly afterwards) as the old N7 (where Aldi have their distribution centre etc.) from Naas to the M7 is and was always single carriageway.

One of us has a dickey memory.
My recollection is of driving the Naas bypass as a continuous road between the Johnstown and the entrance to Newbridge town during the 80's and early 90's.
I definitely remember the early days of the construction of the Newbridge bypass and seeing the construction of the over-bridges for the junction at Newhall, which were in green-fields on the left as I drove south.
I don't think it was classified as a M'way until the Newbridge bypass opened as the western bit would have served local traffic between the end of the 'old N7' at Newhall (Aldi's) and Newbridge town via the western bit of the bypass (the bit that is now the R445).
If memory serves me right, there was a median crossing to allow access to Naas from the south, so if that is right it couldn't have been M'way.

Sponge Bob

Curve removed here IIRC.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,685955,718380,7,4

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

I don't think it was classified as a M'way until the Newbridge bypass opened as the western bit would have served local traffic between the end of the 'old N7' at Newhall (Aldi's) and Newbridge town via the western bit of the bypass (the bit that is now the R445).
If memory serves me right, there was a median crossing to allow access to Naas from the south, so if that is right it couldn't have been M'way.

The section from Maudlins to Newhall was definitely designated as motorway from 1983.

From memory the section from Newhall to Newbridge was built before 1983 also. Was never able to date the Newbridge to Kildare DC, which eventually became part of the motorway.

edit: reference to some of the Newhall->Newbridge section being extant in 1976: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1976/03/31/00027.asp and it still being built in 1980: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1980/02/20/00006.asp

Some interesting Dail debates including an argument that the Naas BP was a waste of money due to it not bypassing N9 traffic also! That not being done until the M9 leg of the Newbridge BP in 1994...

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

The section from Maudlins to Newhall was definitely designated as motorway from 1983.

From memory the section from Newhall to Newbridge was built before 1983 also. Was never able to date the Newbridge to Kildare DC, which eventually became part of the motorway.

edit: reference to some of the Newhall->Newbridge section being extant in 1976: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1976/03/31/00027.asp and it still being built in 1980: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1980/02/20/00006.asp

Some interesting Dail debates including an argument that the Naas BP was a waste of money due to it not bypassing N9 traffic also! That not being done until the M9 leg of the Newbridge BP in 1994...

I regularly traveled the Cork - Dublin route from the 1970 onwards, when the only DC was Tivoli-Dunkettle and Naas-Dublin. At that time the N7 Naas-Newbridge was regular single carriageway.
Apart from inner bypasses, like in Portlaoise the first real developement of the route was the Naas bypass which extended the Dublin-Naas DC to Newbridge, to just before where Wyeth is now.
The Newbridge bypass was built as earlier described, the line of the now 'grassed over' section of the original Naas bypass from where the extension which is the Newbridge bypass diverged can be seen in the google view I posted earlier.
The Newbridge bypass (which had a spur to facilitate a bypass for Kilcullen and which was the earliest bit of the M9) terminated at the western end of the Curragh.
I believe that it was when the Newbridge and the Kilcullen bypass's were opened the designation was changed from N to M as prior to that the Naas-Newbridge DC had median crossings, some of which still exist on the now re-designated R445.

L1011

The Naas Bypass (Maudlins to Newhall)was absolutely, 100%, motorway from the day it opened in 1983.

The DC from Naas to Newbridge predates this. This has median crossings, the Naas Bypass does not and never had - it even has a private access overbridge.

The DC over the Curragh was also absolutely 100% built before the M7 from Newhall to it ("Newbridge Bypass"). If you look at any maps prior to the Kildare Bypass being built you can see that this was designated only as DC. There's references to it being built and open by 1986, whereas the Newbridge BP opened in 1993/4.

The Dail debates provide proof for much of this if you still don't believe me.

charlemont

It merged into the Naas Newbridge DC like this..

murphaph

MYOB wrote: »

The Naas Bypass (Maudlins to Newhall)was absolutely, 100%, motorway from the day it opened in 1983.

The DC from Naas to Newbridge predates this. This has median crossings, the Naas Bypass does not and never had - it even has a private access overbridge.

The DC over the Curragh was also absolutely 100% built before the M7 from Newhall to it ("Newbridge Bypass"). If you look at any maps prior to the Kildare Bypass being built you can see that this was designated only as DC. There's references to it being built and open by 1986, whereas the Newbridge BP opened in 1993/4.

The Dail debates provide proof for much of this if you still don't believe me.

Are you sure about the bit in bold (the rest is spot on AFAIK)? Assuming it predated the Naas Bypass, why did they only dual as far as they did (ie, not further in towards Naas)? There was nothing along the road at that time to prevent this, or are you hinting that they knew the Naas Bypass would diverge from here and so stopped at this point?

Are we sure the Naas-Newbridge dual carriageway wasn't simply tacked on to the Naas Bypass scheme?

Sponge Bob

charlemont wrote: »

It merged into the Naas Newbridge DC like this..

Isn't that what I posted earlier.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

The Naas Bypass (Maudlins to Newhall)was absolutely, 100%, motorway from the day it opened in 1983.

The DC from Naas to Newbridge predates this. This has median crossings, the Naas Bypass does not and never had - it even has a private access overbridge.

The DC over the Curragh was also absolutely 100% built before the M7 from Newhall to it ("Newbridge Bypass"). If you look at any maps prior to the Kildare Bypass being built you can see that this was designated only as DC. There's references to it being built and open by 1986, whereas the Newbridge BP opened in 1993/4.

The Dail debates provide proof for much of this if you still don't believe me.

One thing I DO remember is a continuous DC from Newbridge to Newlands Cross in the early 80's AND a right hand turn over the median at Newhall to access the 'old N7' into Naas. From Newhall to Johnstown it was M'way type road but it was still the N7 until the Newbridge bypass was opened, which enabled the closure of the median crossing to Nass at Newhall.

Look at charlemont's post and it is clear what I am talking about, I was there and I have the teeshirt

As for Dail debates, we all know how well informed our politicians are, don't we

L1011

murphaph wrote: »

or are you hinting that they knew the Naas Bypass would diverge from here and so stopped at this point?

The Naas Bypass was under vague planning as a motorway from 1960s. Debates in the early 1970s reference it being delayed due to waiting for the laws that allowed motorways to be finalised. KCC bought the land for the entire way in the 1970s so they knew where it'd end.

niloc1951 wrote: »

One thing I DO remember is a continuous DC from Newbridge to Newlands Cross in the early 80's AND a right hand turn over the median at Newhall to access the 'old N7' into Naas. From Newhall to Johnstown it was M'way type road but it was still the N7 until the Newbridge bypass was opened, which enabled the closure of the median crossing to Nass at Newhall.

Look at charlemont's post and it is clear what I am talking about, I was there and I have the teeshirt

There was continuous DC from Newbridge to NX by the mid 1980s but it was definitely Motorway from Maudlins to Newhall from 1983.

niloc1951 wrote: »

As for Dail debates, we all know how well informed our politicians are, don't we

Generally the Minister for Transport (Environment as often was) with a reply to a pre-prepared question will be entirely accurate. There's also the vast corpus of maps showing that it was M7 from 1983...

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

...............Generally the Minister for Transport (Environment as often was) with a reply to a pre-prepared question will be entirely accurate.............

As we know only too well, the Ministers replies are only as good as the incompetence of the civil servants who pen them.

And, as I said the bit in from Johnstown (btw is that aka Maudlins) to Newhall was of M'way type construction in anticipation of the next section on the planning board, but I have no recall that it was signed as a M'way and had anything other than a 60MPH speed limit until that section was opened in the early 90's.
Then, I'm one of the 'clowns' who cruised past the signage for Cork off the new section of M7 west of Portlaoise shortly after it opened :D:D
As I have better things to clog up my remaining operative grey cells with if anybody is that interested in the latter point a call to KCC should answer the question.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

As we know only too well, the Ministers replies are only as good as the incompetence of the civil servants who pen them.

And, as I said the bit in from Johnstown (btw is that aka Maudlins) to Newhall was of M'way type construction in anticipation of the next section on the planning board, but I have no recall that it was signed as a M'way and had anything other than a 60MPH speed limit until that section was opened in the early 90's.
Then, I'm one of the 'clowns' who cruised past the signage for Cork off the new section of M7 west of Portlaoise shortly after it opened :D:D
As I have better things to clog up my remaining operative grey cells with if anybody is that interested in the latter point a call to KCC should answer the question.

It was motorway from 1983. I'm not sure when the motorway speed limit was set to 70mph, however.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

It was motorway from 1983. I'm not sure when the motorway speed limit was set to 70mph, however.

Hmmmmm, yes the section between Naas and Newbridge was opened in 1983.
BUT, if as you say, contrary to my recollection, it was opened as motorway and was not an N road until the Newbridge bypass was connected , how do you explain THIS SIGN to the left of the truck in the picture which reads N-07 for the road number which is still in existence between the canal and the Naas exit heading north thanks to the fit and forget policy of our road makers/maintainers

Sponge Bob

niloc1951 wrote: »

how do you explain THIS SIGN to the left of the truck in the picture which reads N-07 for the road number

They are section boundaries for 'administrative' or inventory purposes and the end digits correspond to column 1 in this.

ardmacha

I don't think there is any dispute that the Naas bypass was the M7 from day one. For instance, the Irish Times on 4 October 1983 was pretty sure that a motorway had opened the previous day at Naas.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

Hmmmmm, yes the section between Naas and Newbridge was opened in 1983.
BUT, if as you say, contrary to my recollection, it was opened as motorway and was not an N road until the Newbridge bypass was connected , how do you explain THIS SIGN to the left of the truck in the picture which reads N-07 for the road number which is still in existence between the canal and the Naas exit heading north thanks to the fit and forget policy of our road makers/maintainers

Those signs say N on *every motorway*.

Your recollection is wrong, and you're digging ever deeper to try and claim its right. Naas to Newbridge on what is now the R445 opened before 1983 too.

SeanW

charlemont wrote: »

It merged into the Naas Newbridge DC like this..

That looks about right. I drove to Newbridge < a year ago and I got off a J10 and took the old road for the craic.

It seemed painfully obvious that the R445 dual carriageway at that point was where it had been decided to extend the N7 dual carriageway to Newbridge and then years later that chunk of it was downgraded when a bypass was built.

spacetweek

I distinctly remember in the mid-80s as a child noticing the Motorway Begins/Ends signs on the Naas bypass.

JupiterKid

The Naas bypass was definitely, unequivocally motorway (M7) from the day it opened in October 1983. I well remember my Dad taking me for a spin on it as an 8 year old.

At Newhall there was a simple diamond type interchange to link the N7 from Naas to the N7 southwards to Newbridge. There were never any median crossings on the Naas bypass - it was fully grade separated motorway. The dualled section between Naas and Newbridge was built before construction work even began on the Naas bypass - it was built at some point in the 1970s - probably around the mid to late 1970s.

IIRC the M7 Naas bypass just merged straight into the N7 after the Newhall junction. When the M7 was extended as the Newbridge Bypass in June 1993, a new bridge was built to take the R445 (former N7) over the realigned M7.

The short straight section of DC through the Curragh between Newbridge and Kildare town which was eventually incorporated into the M7 was built many years before the Newbridge bypass. Around 1984-85 or thereabouts.

But the Naas Bypass was definitely motorway from the day it opened. It was the first section of motorway in the Republic of Ireland.

Zubeneschamali

You can see the Irish Times headline on the 4 Oct 1983 front page here:

"£16 million motorway bypass opens at Naas"

DWCommuter

I can also confirm that the Naas By pass was a fully signed Motorway from opening in 1983. I can also confirm that the old DC between Newhall and Newbridge, does indeed predate the Naas By Pass.

I don't need sources. I live here.:D

L1011

DWCommuter wrote: »

I can also confirm that the Naas By pass was a fully signed Motorway from opening in 1983. I can also confirm that the old DC between Newhall and Newbridge, does indeed predate the Naas By Pass.

I don't need sources. I live here.:D

And I live too close for comfort :P