Linda Byrne is London Bound!!

SeanKenny

Congrats to Linda Byrne on achieving the Olympic qualifying standard today. (2 hrs 36mins 21). She is a tremoundous athlete who has performed with distinction on many occasions for Ireland.

There is no doubt that Dublin is not the fastest course so I'm sure there is more to come from Linda.

misty floyd

Yeah just saw the interview, she seemed so happy which is great to see especially after a bit of a heartbreak last year. Great stuff.

Rocket Science

great news for Linda. Delighted for her, her family, her coach and all her support team. Team London continues to grow! Whoop Whoop!

Slogger Jogger

Fantastic result. Well deserved. She dug deep towards the end.

TFBubendorfer

She very nearly cried when she crossed the line. You could see how much it meant to her.

Dan man

Another positive news story from an Irish point of view, an excellent performance by Linda. She becomes our 12th qualifier for the Olympic 2012 athletics program.

Pisco Sour

Dan man wrote: »

Another positive news story from an Irish point of view, an excellent performance by Linda. She becomes our 12th qualifier for the Olympic 2012 athletics program.

Off the top of my head for A-Standards:

Hession
Mad Len
Cragg
Kenneally
Heffernan x 2
Derval
Britton
Stephanie Reilly
Olive
Deirdre Ryan
Linda Byrne

Who am I missing?

On top of that we can expect a lot more to join them next year:

Gillick
Joanne Cuddihy (cant remember if she already has the A standard or not, but on her Daegu 4x400m relay form she'll very easily get it)
Ciara Mageean
Thomas Barr
Jessie Barr
Steven Colvert perhaps
Brian Gregan with a B standard maybe
A few more of the walkers: Griffin, and Costin maybe
Jason Smith already has the B-Standard.
Women's 4x400 relay team looking good to make it.

I'm sure I'm missing loads, but its just off the top of my head. It's shaping up to be a big team, no doubt bigger than nations with far more financial resources and bigger populations like Netherlands and Belgium. I hope B-Standard athletes are not held back, certainly the young ones must be sent as development for Rio 2016.

Congrats to Linda. Delighted for her.

Dan man

04072511 wrote: »

Off the top of my head for A-Standards:

Hession
Mad Len
Cragg
Kenneally
Heffernan x 2
Derval
Britton
Stephanie Reilly
Olive
Deirdre Ryan
Linda Byrne

Who am I missing?

On top of that we can expect a lot more to join them next year:

Gillick
Joanne Cuddihy (cant remember if she already has the A standard or not, but on her Daegu 4x400m relay form she'll very easily get it)
Ciara Mageean
Thomas Barr
Jessie Barr
Steven Colvert perhaps
Brian Gregan with a B standard maybe
A few more of the walkers: Griffin, and Costin maybe
Jason Smith already has the B-Standard.
Women's 4x400 relay team looking good to make it.

I'm sure I'm missing loads, but its just off the top of my head. It's shaping up to be a big team, no doubt bigger than nations with far more financial resources and bigger populations like Netherlands and Belgium. I hope B-Standard athletes are not held back, certainly the young ones must be sent as development for Rio 2016.

Congrats to Linda. Delighted for her.

You forgot Brendan Boyce is qualified in 50km walk.

Dan man

Yes it looks like we will send a big athletics team to the Olympics, no chance of surpassing or getting close to the 36 sent to Sydney (yes i said 36, not a typo), but a big team with lots of talent and a mixture of youth and experience.
Apart from the 12 already qualified I would guess that a number of the following (but not all) could and should make the A-standard next season (some may be relying on B-standards, but only if the O.C.I. changes its stance and also B-standards no good to those if another Irish athlete has the A-qualifier in the same event):

• Jason Smyth (100m)
• Steven Colvert (200m)
• David Gillick (400m)
• Brian Gregan (400m- although unlikely to if Gillick gets A-time)
• Thomas Chamney (800m/1,500m)
• Mark English (800m)
• Mark Christie (5,000m)
• Martin Fagan (Marathon)
• Sean Connolly (Marathon)
• Thomas Barr (400mHurdles)
• Colin Griffin (50km Walk)
• Michael Doyle (50km Walk)
• Ailish McSweeney (100m)
• Joanne Cuddihy (400m)
• Ciara Mageean (800m/1,500m)
• Mary Cullen (5,000m)
• Maria McCambridge (Marathon)
• Jessie Barr (400mHurdles)
• Roisin McGettigan (3,000m Steeplechase)
• Kelly Proper (Long Jump)
• Tori Pena (Pole Vault)
• Laura Reynolds (20km Walk)
• Plus 4 Women's 4x400m Relay team members)

Not sure if the women's 4x100m or the men's 4x400m relay team will make it....they have the potential but it will be a huge task. The other qualifiers are likely to come from this lot, but as ever, I am sure I have forgotten someone, or else (hopefully) someone pulls out a Mad Len performance and comes outta nowhere to book their spot in London. We should have in excess of 20 who have achieved the A-standard if all goes well next season. Interesting fact so far is that it is even-stevens in terms of men and women with 6 each qualified.

Pisco Sour

I really hope that the fact we will have quite a high number of A-Standard qualifiers for London, won't get in the way of sending some B-Standard athletes for development. With such a big team I'd be worried that they will want to keep the costs down and not send any extra, but that would be very shortsighted. The likes of Thomas Barr need to be sent. Simple as. We have quite a lot of talent coming through and they need to be given the experience.

Bet ya Ian O'Riordan feels like a bit of an eejit now. I remember the day after the World and Olympic standards were announced he wrote a very pessimistic article about how we may have the smallest team ever for an Olympics. I don't have the link to it right now. Excellent writer, and very knowledgeable, but a little negative at times.

myflipflops

04072511 wrote: »

I really hope that the fact we will have quite a high number of A-Standard qualifiers for London, won't get in the way of sending some B-Standard athletes for development. With such a big team I'd be worried that they will want to keep the costs down and not send any extra.

It will have nothing to do with team size and costs. As it stands, nobody with a B standard will be sent under any circumstance. Check out the agreements agreed between the OCI and Athletics Ireland. No ifs, buts or maybes - A standards only can be be forward for selection. Unless there is an unforseeable change of heart, there will be nobody sent with a B standard whether they are 20 or 40 years old.

http://www.olympicsport.ie/summer-games/london2012/planning/3844-agreements-on-the-selection-of-athletes-for-the-london-olympic-games-2012.html

Pisco Sour

myflipflops wrote: »

It will have nothing to do with team size and costs. As it stands, nobody with a B standard will be sent under any circumstance. Check out the agreements agreed between the OCI and Athletics Ireland. No ifs, buts or maybes - A standards only can be be forward for selection. Unless there is an unforseeable change of heart, there will be nobody sent with a B standard whether they are 20 or 40 years old.

http://www.olympicsport.ie/summer-games/london2012/planning/3844-agreements-on-the-selection-of-athletes-for-the-london-olympic-games-2012.html

Didnt they send a few last time around in Beijing?

It's very sad that they are being so narrow-minded. If Deirdre Ryan was not sent to the Worlds this year (she only had a B-Standard) then we would never have seen her finish 6th in the world. Who's to say that this cant happen next year? Suppose somebody like Thomas Barr is rapidly developing and notches a solid B-Standard a month before the games, who's to say he wont go and better that again in the Games?

They should be flexible and take it on a case by case basis. The regidity and by-the-book nature of the OCI is incredibly frustrating.

thirtyfoot

Some would argue an Olympics is not a place to blood young athletes, maybe Worlds or Europeans are a more suitable stepping stone. Also there is a bizarre mental trick sometimes when a standard is raised, athletes just respond. We also have a very poor rep as regards B athletes going to Olympics and not performing.

On the other hand, we could send say athletes who have two more Olympics in them (under 24) and have got the B maybe 3 or 4 times in the season. That would be a good development approach as opposed to sending a 29 year old serial championship tourist. Pushing the cause of Thomas Barr is a valid one but I'd imagine his setup would have a very long term view on things. Aged 19 they'd have his long term future at heart. I would have known most of that young crew that went to Sydney. The horrific negative experience had a long term effect on their careers, there is no doubt about that. Sending a kid who has scraped to a B may not be the best developmental exercise. If they are good enough they are old enough may be true with Wayne Rooney as an example but I was watching Tim Tebow on Sunday and thought 'too soon and he isn't ready for this' week in, week out. Europeans next year would be a great stepping stone for someone like Thomas and a sign of progress, ie, another sub 51 season demonstrating consistency, and chances are he'd make the A at it.

Of the 12 that have qualified so far, it's feet to see how many are either based at home and have Irish coaches. Linda Byrne and Enda Fitzpatrick got savaged here ages ago as regards them going nowhere, yesterday was a two fingers to that school of thought, Olympic A can't beat that.

robinph

They need a slap if they are refusing to send people with the B standard and there is no other reason for them not to go except OCI thinking that Ireland should be A standard only. If it's about sending people to Sydney and the cost then they have a point and it's fair enough, but to not allow someone to go and compete for the country who has a qualifying standard and the Olympics are just an hour plane ride away is just stupid.

If it's really a cost issue, then finding the price of a Ryanair ticket and a friend who lives in London to put them up is all it takes. OCI then just need to supply a green tracksuit and off they go. You need to get people taking part in the big championships when there is one on your doorstep. Even if it doesn't mean that they are then making the A standard come Rio, if could help generate more interest from other kids and there are then a whole host of other people to pick from next time round.

Pisco Sour

Agreed. If somebody isnt chosen (either because it is A-Standard only, or because they are an older B-Standard athlete with no developmental value in sending them) then why can't they be allowed to pay their own way if they have achieved the B-Standard?

I remember Catherina McKiernan wanting to go to the World Half Marathon Champs in 1998 as she was certain she would win it, but the AAI (or was it BLE at the time?) decided not to send a team. Catherina offered to pay her own way, but they blocked that. A week later she ran a time well faster than the time which won the gold medal at the World Half.

Some of the people who run this sport are absolute morons!

robinph

This is Ireland's home Olympics. If there is the chance of having someone compete in any event because they have met the appropriate standard and it's not a case of having more than three to choose from then that person has to go if they want to and their coaches etc think it a good idea.

If they are an old codger with no chance of making Rio then they still have to have the option of competing. The more people in green tracksuits that get seen on the coverage of any event the better for Ireland and it's sporting future.

Clearlier

As myflipflops has pointed out there's very, very little chance that an athlete with the B standard will be sent. The AAI messed up any chance of persuading the OCI to be different when they successfully made a case for sending a few athletes with B standards and sent a 39 year old to the games. This is no reflection of the 39 year old. Who wouldn't accept an offer to go to the Olympics? However it did send out the message loud and clear that the AAI are not strategic thinkers and can't be trusted to make sensible decisions. Since then the OCI have been crystal clear that there's no wiggle room.

Pisco Sour

Clearlier wrote: »

As myflipflops has pointed out there's very, very little chance that an athlete with the B standard will be sent. The AAI messed up any chance of persuading the OCI to be different when they successfully made a case for sending a few athletes with B standards and sent a 39 year old to the games. This is no reflection of the 39 year old. Who wouldn't accept an offer to go to the Olympics? However it did send out the message loud and clear that the AAI are not strategic thinkers and can't be trusted to make sensible decisions. Since then the OCI have been crystal clear that there's no wiggle room.

Yeh that was a shocking call on the AAI's part.

Anytime I think about the B-Standard debate now, 2 words come to mind:

Deirdre

Ryan

Surely that's the ultimate example of why B-Standards should sent?

ecoli

Clearlier wrote: »

As myflipflops has pointed out there's very, very little chance that an athlete with the B standard will be sent. The AAI messed up any chance of persuading the OCI to be different when they successfully made a case for sending a few athletes with B standards and sent a 39 year old to the games. This is no reflection of the 39 year old. Who wouldn't accept an offer to go to the Olympics? However it did send out the message loud and clear that the AAI are not strategic thinkers and can't be trusted to make sensible decisions. Since then the OCI have been crystal clear that there's no wiggle room.

I think it should also be made aware that this was a last min call up for a marathon so preparation was also not what you would want as ideal marathon prep

Someone actually mentioned something to me yesterday (was before my time so dont know off hand) but does anyone know whether Treacy had ran the equiv. time for Half pre 1984. Did he have a qualifying standard?

I am in two minds about the approach myself ideally would like to see as many Irish athletes as possible but in fairness the A standard qualifying can be alot easier to tackle than some countries who need A standard + to win Trials

Pisco Sour

ecoli wrote: »

I think it should also be made aware that this was a last min call up for a marathon so preparation was also not what you would want as ideal marathon prep

Someone actually mentioned something to me yesterday (was before my time so dont know off hand) but does anyone know whether Treacy had ran the equiv. time for Half pre 1984. Did he have a qualifying standard?

I am in two minds about the approach myself ideally would like to see as many Irish athletes as possible but in fairness the A standard qualifying can be alot easier to tackle than some countries who need A standard + to win Trials

The A-Standard is ridiculously tough in some events though, so you can't compare like with like. The women's high jump has an A-Standard of 1.95m. Only 12 women managed this height in qualification at the World Championships. So scraping the A-Standard is good enough to make the World Final. In the final itself only 4 or 5 women cleared 1.97m, which was the lowest height that could be attempted that was over the A-Standard.

myflipflops

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Also there is a bizarre mental trick sometimes when a standard is raised, athletes just respond.

I think you could be on to something here. Setting the bar higher (literally in Ryans case) can get more out of athletes.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

On the other hand, we could send say athletes who have two more Olympics in them (under 24) and have got the B maybe 3 or 4 times in the season. That would be a good development approach as opposed to sending a 29 year old serial championship tourist.

I think the OCI will avoid this kind of appraoch for 'legal' reasons. We saw with their stance to the suggestion that the first Irishman home who also ran the A standard in the Dubln marathon was guaranteed a spot for London. OCI shot it down as they said it could lead to legal action from other athletes who might run quicker but not be selected. They were REALLY covering all the bases.

The same thought process will (presumably) apply for the Olympic B standards. If you send the young guy/lady on a B standard (Thomas Barr and Ciara Mageean being the best examples), how do you leave behind the 31/32/33 year old who scraped in?

Basically, the OCI wish to remove any subjective selection criteria from the equation.

ecoli wrote: »

Someone actually mentioned something to me yesterday (was before my time so dont know off hand) but does anyone know whether Treacy had ran the equiv. time for Half pre 1984. Did he have a qualifying standard?

LA Olympics was Teacys debut marathon. He had no qualifying standard for that event and had said that if a 3rd Irishman got the time, he would give up his place. He had qualified for, and competed in, the 10000 meters earlier in the games.

ecoli

myflipflops wrote: »

LA Olympics was Teacys debut marathon. He had no qualifying standard for that event and had said that if a 3rd Irishman got the time, he would give up his place. He had qualified for, and competed in, the 10000 meters earlier in the games.

I knew it was his first just wasnt sure whether he had run a half to get an equivalent time to justify it.

I know it is different as he was World Championship Winner (in XC) but its interesting that our last mens Medalist in OG didnt have the standard that would qualify him to run in it

Schoolie D

previously selection of B standard athletes has been HapHazard at best...

I'm all for bringing development athletes but you'd have to figure out rules around selection and stick to them.

I thought that the Thomas Chamney-David Campbell thing was tough on both before the 2009 Worlds. Campbell had a faster B standard for 800m (Chambey also had a B 1:46ish from the Diamond League) and AAI decided that selection would be down to a race off at the nationals.
I have no problem with the principle of taking your national champ as a means of selection but the decision to use this as a means of selection was made about a week before the race. Campbell had a race in the UK and had to change plans last minute and Chamney won the race off.

Pauline Curly was on her holidays in Spain when she got the call for Beijing. I was delighted for her but can you bring some on B standards and not others and claim fairness (if you're not claiming fairness that fair enough too)

Athletes need to know before the season how selection will be determined. Not make it up as you go along.

ecoli

Schoolie D wrote: »

previously selection of B standard athletes has been HapHazard at best...

I'm all for bringing development athletes but you'd have to figure out rules around selection and stick to them.

I thought that the Thomas Chamney-David Campbell thing was tough on both before the 2009 Worlds. Campbell had a faster B standard for 800m (Chambey also had a B 1:46ish from the Diamond League) and AAI decided that selection would be down to a race off at the nationals.
I have no problem with the principle of taking your national champ as a means of selection but the decision to use this as a means of selection was made about a week before the race. Campbell had a race in the UK and had to change plans last minute and Chamney won the race off.

Pauline Curly was on her holidays in Spain when she got the call for Beijing. I was delighted for her but can you bring some on B standards and not others and claim fairness (if you're not claiming fairness that fair enough too)

Athletes need to know before the season how selection will be determined. Not make it up as you go along.

Only one B standard is allowed per event so that was the reason for this Pauline was different as she was the only Woman with B standard for the Marathon however a last min call up for a marathon or walk compared to other events is pretty tough on the athlete

Schoolie D

ecoli wrote: »

Only one B standard is allowed per event so that was the reason for this Pauline was different as she was the only Woman with B standard for the Marathon however a last min call up for a marathon or walk compared to other events is pretty tough on the athlete

I wouldn't argue for both to have traveled but Campell would have been entitled to believe he was selected as he had the faster time. Then the Goal posts moved.

I happen to think and a B Standard + a race off for the national champs is a better way to carry out selection but the criteria need to be stipulated up front.

Same with goes for Development athletes you'd need a complicated enough set of rules but it'd be worth figuring out. Seems like they're making it up as they go along.

Pisco Sour

Remember the farce of leaving Hesh out of the Athens squad because he missed out on the A-Standard by 0.01 seconds. Utterly ridiculous. I guess theres no way of knowing, but that lost experience in Athens could have been the small difference between making the final in Beijing and just missing out.

robinph

No need to be having a race off for Irish selection, there are not that many people with either standard in any event to choose from.

Now when GAA makes it to the Olympics then there may be a need to change the criteria, but for everything else, send the fastest/ strongest/ highest/ longest you've got that meet the required standard.