Occupy Vatican Protest Group

Keaton

Occupy Vancouver movement almost takes over Catholic church
Vancouver Archbishop Michael Miler anticipated the march of protesters and requested extra police protection outside the cathedral to prevent the disruption of the mass.

Read more: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90063820?Occupy%20Vancouver%20movement%20almost%20takes%20over%20Catholic%20church#ixzz1cNiDRoDK

There's also talk among dissident 'Catholic' groups about starting some sort of protest, whereby they would enact a sit-down protest at St. Peter's Square, or perhaps even in the Basilica, similar to what has happened in London and other places.

Manach

Cool, a chance to watch the Swiss Guard Pikemen in action.

Keaton

Manach wrote: »

Cool, a chance to watch the Swiss Guard Pikemen in action.

And not just halbards, either. The Swiss Guards have access to an arsenal of heavy fire-power right next to the Basilica, including MP5 machine guns.

Interestingly, the Pope's security guards are apparently less polite than the US Secret Service. So I'd expect any protests would be met with a firm response by Vatican police, assisted by Italian police.

When Hitler's army entered Rome in World War II, Swiss Guardsmen donned subdued, grey uniforms and took up positions behind machineguns and mortars. Though vastly outnumbered, they were prepared to sacrifice their lives for the Holy Father, but the Germans did not move against the Vatican.

That tradition of defending the Pope to the death continues today, as each of the 100 Swiss Guards must abide by the following oath: "I swear I will faithfully, loyally and honourably serve the supreme pontiff [name of Pope] and his legitimate successors and also dedicate myself to them with all my strength, sacrificing if necessary also my life to defend them. I assume this same commitment with regard to the Sacred College of Cardinals whenever the See is vacant. Furthermore, I promise to the commanding captain and my other superiors, respect, fidelity and obedience. This I swear! May God and our holy patrons assist me!"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/05/catholicism.religion8

Baggio1

go on the swiss guards

i actually watched a very interesting documentary one night a while back, just came across it, and it was really very fascinating programme about their duties,daily routines and also training leading up to full membership etc

laoch na mona

right to protest and all

Keaton

laoch na mona wrote: »

right to protest and all

There's no right to trespass or cause damage. If you were to protest in my back yard, I'd call the police. The Vatican is no different.

laoch na mona

its a public area

PatricaMcKay2

laoch na mona wrote: »

its a public area

Not as such.

Keaton

laoch na mona wrote: »

its a public area

Just like the White House front lawn.

Anyhow, there are bye-laws in any public space. That often means no camping or other such activities. Plus, there is no right to protest in every case. The modern obsession with 'rights' has lost the run of itself.

laoch na mona

Keaton wrote: »

Just like the White House front lawn.

more like phoenix park

Keaton

laoch na mona wrote: »

more like phoenix park

Are you allowed to camp in Phoenix Park?

Anyway, it is irrelevant. The authorities do not allow any protests in St. Peter's Square. Protests are usually intercepted in advance by Italian police, and the Vatican police will act quickly to remove protesters. I expect the authorities would come down very hard on any folks who think a Vatican protest might be a nice idea.

Onesimus

Michael moore said to Piers Morgan on American television when asked about those who vandalise and commit crimes ( Moore is a practicing Catholic ) Moores said that the OWS protest is a peaceful one and anyone doing that is not living the true OWS protest and are just hooligans destroying the protest.

tommy2bad

And not just halbards, either. The Swiss Guards have access to an arsenal of heavy fire-power right next to the Basilica, including MP5 machine guns.

Jesus would be so proud.

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

Michael moore said to Piers Morgan on American television when asked about those who vandalise and commit crimes ( Moore is a practicing Catholic ) Moores said that the OWS protest is a peaceful one and anyone doing that is not living the true OWS protest and are just hooligans destroying the protest.

Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic??!?

Onesimus

Newsite wrote: »

Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic??!?

Yeah born and raised its even in his movies the one about captalism in particular.

Manach

tommy2bad wrote: »

Jesus would be so proud.

Yes he would. A key Christian premise is not to murder. A corallory of this, which is also present in civil law, is an obligation to self-defence where a reasonable and proportion use of force in defence of others (in this case the Vatican community) is permitted.

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

Yeah born and raised its even in his movies the one about captalism in particular.

Claiming Michael Moore is a Catholic is like saying that Martin Luther was a Catholic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQ7BGcjgI8

Onesimus

Newsite wrote: »

Claiming Michael Moore is a Catholic is like saying that Martin Luther was a Catholic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQ7BGcjgI8

How so?

Manach

Mr. Moore might in some small respect be affirming Church doctrine on poverty. There is an obligation to help the poor, Deut 15:11, and early Catholic European political parties were founded on the premise of raising working class living conditions.

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

How so?

Did you watch the video?

Onesimus

Newsite wrote: »

Did you watch the video?

No havnt the time. Spell it out for me if you please. lol

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

No havnt the time. Spell it out for me if you please. lol

Em well the gist of it is that he's riding around in a pink 'sodomobile' - the video finishes with a visit to Topeka, Kansas, where they parade around in front of the Westboro Baptist Church!

Onesimus

Newsite wrote: »

Em well the gist of it is that he's riding around in a pink 'sodomobile' - the video finishes with a visit to Topeka, Kansas, where they parade around in front of the Westboro Baptist Church!

Doesnt mean he is baptist though does it?

Festus

Onesimus wrote: »

Michael moore said to Piers Morgan on American television when asked about those who vandalise and commit crimes ( Moore is a practicing Catholic ) Moores said that the OWS protest is a peaceful one and anyone doing that is not living the true OWS protest and are just hooligans destroying the protest.

According to wikipedia, with references provided, Moore was brought up Catholic and claims to be Catholic but disagrees with the Church on abortion and same sex marriage. It probably wouldn't take much to discover he disagrees with them on other key areas too.
That would make him "Catholic" in name only or possibly "American Catholic".

To be able to claim to be a practising Catholic you have to accept all the tenets of the Church, remain obedient to the them, and publically support them if called upon to do so whether you agree with them or not.

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

Doesnt mean he is baptist though does it?

Well that wasn't my point...the video shows that he isn't Catholic. At least then he wasn't.

Onesimus

Festus wrote: »

According to wikipedia, with references provided, Moore was brought up Catholic and claims to be Catholic but disagrees with the Church on abortion and same sex marriage. It probably wouldn't take much to discover he disagrees with them on other key areas too.
That would make him "Catholic" in name only or possibly "American Catholic".

To be able to claim to be a practising Catholic you have to accept all the tenets of the Church, remain obedient to the them, and publically support them if called upon to do so whether you agree with them or not.

Thanks Festus.

MrPudding

Keaton wrote: »

...MP5 machine guns.

sub machine guns.

Keaton wrote: »

Interestingly, the Pope's security guards are apparently less polite than the US Secret Service. So I'd expect any protests would be met with a firm response by Vatican police, assisted by Italian police.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/05/catholicism.religion8

What will be interesting is what happens to anyone who is arrested. I find this interesting because if it is a state, as many catholics claim it is, then it should have its own legal system for dealing with criminals. My understanding is if someone is caught, for example, pickpocketing a tourist they are actually handed over to the Italian police and prosecuted under Italian law.

This is considered by some to be an indication of the invalidity of the vatican / holy see's claim of statehood.

MrP

Ciaran500

Newsite wrote: »

Em well the gist of it is that he's riding around in a pink 'sodomobile' - the video finishes with a visit to Topeka, Kansas, where they parade around in front of the Westboro Baptist Church!

Can't be catholic if you're ok with homosexuality?

Newsite

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Can't be catholic if you're ok with homosexuality?

You got it.

Manach

MrPudding wrote: »

sub machine guns.


This is considered by some to be an indication of the invalidity of the vatican / holy see's claim of statehood.

MrP

I did a quick check on the status of the Vatican a while back on the text "Handbook of International Law" - it is considered a state, but a sui generis one.
Sadly I'd consider national solvency a criteria - so Ireland might not be a state, at least to the ECB.

smokingman

Don't worry, these protests will be handled the same as they are in all totalitarian states.

dlofnep

Newsite wrote: »

You got it.

Just as well Catholicism is fading into obscurity then, isn't it?

Newsite

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well Catholicism is fading into obscurity then, isn't it?

God will it is - I'm not Catholic!

PDN

Newsite wrote: »

God will it is - I'm not Catholic!

Ha ha! I love it every time this happens. It's like somebody making a racist comment and then realising you're not black after all.

dlofnep

PDN wrote: »

Ha ha! I love it every time this happens. It's like somebody making a racist comment and then realising you're not black after all.

Are you equating my comment with racism?

Newsite

PDN wrote: »

Ha ha! I love it every time this happens. It's like somebody making a racist comment and then realising you're not black after all.

PDN

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you equating my comment with racism?

MrPudding

Manach wrote: »

I did a quick check on the status of the Vatican a while back on the text "Handbook of International Law" - it is considered a state, but a sui generis one.
Sadly I'd consider national solvency a criteria - so Ireland might not be a state, at least to the ECB.

That it is a sui generis state does not take away form the fact that it fails several of the requirements for statehood. Saying it is a sui generis state is effectively saying it is not a real state, so we say it is some kind of unique state. Call it what you will, but there are still issues with its statehood.

MrP

Manach

May I inquire what these requirements are and if they are vouchsafed by a confirming body, such as the UN?

Spacedog

Festus wrote: »

According to wikipedia, with references provided, Moore was brought up Catholic and claims to be Catholic but disagrees with the Church on abortion and same sex marriage. It probably wouldn't take much to discover he disagrees with them on other key areas too.
That would make him "Catholic" in name only or possibly "American Catholic".

To be able to claim to be a practising Catholic you have to accept all the tenets of the Church, remain obedient to the them, and publically support them if called upon to do so whether you agree with them or not.

If this is the criteria for being a Catholic, What percentage of the population of Ireland people are really Catholic? 5%?

You can't have it both ways.

On a global scale this puts the Muslims well ahead too.

and if God is real, and made the world so the Muslims are the clear majority, does that not suggest that you might be playing the losing team so to speak?

Either you accept Moore, or the Muslims win!

indioblack

Manach wrote: »

Yes he would. A key Christian premise is not to murder. A corallory of this, which is also present in civil law, is an obligation to self-defence where a reasonable and proportion use of force in defence of others (in this case the Vatican community) is permitted.

Isn't it simply the sixth commandment - "Thou shalt not kill"?

MrPudding

Manach wrote: »

May I inquire what these requirements are and if they are vouchsafed by a confirming body, such as the UN?

I think the main requirements are still those laid down by the Montevideo Convention in 1933.

I am heading out for an anniversary meal now, but you should be able to find loads about the convention, just google it. I will try to post something more substantive tomorrow.

But very quickly, the simple fact the a crime as minor a pickpocketing, though it applies to any crime subject to criminal law, carried out in the vatican state is handled by he Italian police and judicial system. This is seen by some to imply that it is not a proper state as it is not in control of its territory.

MrP

Manach

From the wiki - Montevideo Convention.

Festus

Spacedog wrote: »

If this is the criteria for being a Catholic, What percentage of the population of Ireland people are really Catholic? 5%?

maybe more like 10% or 20%

Spacedog wrote: »

You can't have it both ways.

Isn't that what I said?

You are either Catholic and accept Catholic teaching, faith and morals, which is Christs teaching, all of it, or you don't.

Spacedog wrote: »

On a global scale this puts the Muslims well ahead too.

Do you mean because only some are really violent and kill Christians for wearing crosses?

Spacedog wrote: »

and if God is real, and made the world so the Muslims are the clear majority, does that not suggest that you might be playing the losing team so to speak?

No "if". God is real. And no, it's not a numbers game. The only thing an increase in the Muslims might mean is possibly a higher probability of being martyred for being a Christian. If that is the case then I'd be on the winning team.
It's not how long you live or how many of you play on the team, it's what happens your soul when you die that matters.

Spacedog wrote: »

Either you accept Moore, or the Muslims win!

To win you must accept Jesus Christ, and all that means.

Pax Christi

Festus

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you equating my comment with racism?

methinks you would have gotten a red or yellow card if the modeerators deemed your comment to be racist. After all racism, unlike anti-catholicism, is illegal.

In actual fact your comments, while potentially offensive to some, were politically correct.

passarellaie

Festus wrote: »

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you equating my comment with racism?

methinks you would have gotten a red or yellow card if the modeerators deemed your comment to be racist. After all racism, unlike anti-catholicism, is illegal.

In actual fact your comments, while potentially offensive to some, were politically correct.

Its pathetic the little hypocritical anti Catholics who love to slate the church and then on ther death bed return to Mother.Just look at Shannon,Morgan,Ryan etc.Maybe the little.kim il sung supporter running the country will lead the occupy the Vatican parade now hes closed the embassy

MrPudding

Manach wrote: »

From the wiki - Montevideo Convention.

Thanks...

MrP

Cossax

PDN wrote: »

Ha ha! I love it every time this happens. It's like somebody making a racist comment and then realising you're not black after all.

The backslapping/cheerleading is more than a bit tedious in here at times - a non-believer messed up, teeheehee! *high five*
Even when they didn't.

The poster's intent was clear - it's good that an intolerant organisation's influence is fading. I doubt the poster cared one way or the other who answered it or what their religion was, if any.

Baggio1

non believers already messed up - their non believers! :P

as regards "intolerant organisation"? i think the CC is veryy tolerant of the constant insults.harrassment,abuse,hatred it recieves from the intolerant attackers, perverse groups and of course lapsed so called discident catholic groups.......

oh and lets not forget about the good ol' liberal anything goes ex catholics those folks are soooo great they stand for ,, um well anything goes i suppose! as long as non one even whispers of individual responsibility and of course having to answer to God himself at the end of their lives.... ooops damm i mentioned it! ah well

MrPudding

Baggio1 wrote: »

non believers already messed up - their non believers! :P

So. Non believers posses other non believers and then mess them up?

MrP

Newsite

MrPudding wrote: »

So. Non believers posses other non believers and then mess them up?

MrP

Think he meant 'they're'