Prussia & Germany

losthorizon

Can someone tell me what exactly was Prussia, how it differed from Germany, Where in Germany its situated and what do ordinary Germans think of it?

Why did it disappear?

Victor

Is this your homework? We don't do homework. See wikipedia.

The current structure of Germany is a federal republic, comprising of states - "land" in German (plural "lander"). The states run lots of services - policing (there is no federal police), transport, etc.

100-150 years ago, Germany was an empire, similarly comprising of states (names and organisation has changed) of which Prussia was the most power. Each state was headed by a prince and Germany had an Emperor (Wilhelm I, later Wilhelm II) and a Chancellor (Bismarck). These two were Prussian and Germany as a single country was their initiative. Prior to that, German was fragmented into many smaller, individual states, some under Prussian control, some not.

800 years ago, Prussia started in the eastern Baltic and gradually spread west as far as Belgium as territory was gained and alliances were formed. After the Franco-Prussian War, the identity of Germany became more important than that of Prussia. With the formation of Poland as an independent state and the teritorial adjustment of Germany in the 20th century, much of the eastern areas have been lost.

ejmaztec

losthorizon wrote: »

Can someone tell me what exactly was Prussia, how it differed from Germany, Where in Germany its situated and what do ordinary Germans think of it?

Why did it disappear?

There's a selection of historical maps on this site.

http://www.rollintl.com/roll/prussia.htm


Prussia was the largest constituent, and the most dominant part of the German Empire, when the various kingdoms were united back in 1871.

After WW1, a large chunk of it was annexed to Poland, and even more of it after WW2. Much of it had been taken from the Poles centuries before, and the Germans, being the loser in both conflicts, didn't have any say in the matter.

One part of what was East Prussia, Konigsberg, was grabbed by the Russians after WW2 to be used as a strategic Baltic naval base. All of the Germans were evicted and the new Russian Enclave was renamed Kaliningrad, it being re-populated with native Russians.

After WW1, there were many native Prussians still living in what was previously German territory, and I think that they were regarded as second class citizens by the Poles. Hitler used their mis-treatment as one of his excuses to invade Poland.

After WW2, the German residents in this area were evicted en-masse, and sent packing towards the West, with many atrocities being carried out by the victors during the process.

The small bits of Prussia left inside Germany after WW2 became swallowed up by other German states e.g. Brandenburg etc..

I don't know what the Germans think of Prussia and its disappearance, but I would imagine that they'd hold the same opinion as those whose ancestors were evicted by the likes of the Ulster Planters.

Manach

During the Napoleonic wars it was initially defeated by France at Jena(?). In treaty negotiations at the time and during the 1809 Russia/French war it was kept in existence (not divided into a new Polish Dukedom / Kingdom of Saxony) at the insistence of Alexander I of Russia. An unwilling ally of France during the 1812 Russian war, its army defected to the Russians, and played a key point both in the first deposition of Napoleon and the 1815 Battle of Waterloo.
- Source "Russia Against Napoleon: The Battle for Europe, 1807 to 1814" by Dominic Lieven, a brilliant book, especially on the logistics elements and the Russian esponiage in Paris

losthorizon

ejmaztec wrote: »

All of the Germans were evicted and the new Russian Enclave was renamed Kaliningrad, it being re-populated with native Russians.

Actually, I remember watching Michael Palins New Europe show when he was in Kaliningrad and the citizens there thought that since the demise of the Soviet Union the place had been virtually abandoned. Many of them seemed to be in favour of independence.

http://www.palinstravels.co.uk/book-4296

Gee Bag

There's a fairly recent book called 'The Iron Kingdom' by Chris Clark which is the best single volume history of Prussia widely available.

dubhthach

Gee Bag wrote: »

There's a fairly recent book called 'The Iron Kingdom' by Chris Clark which is the best single volume history of Prussia widely available.

I have to agree, I bought this in hard copy nearly 5 years ago, definetly one of best books I read.

As for original poster. Prussia ceased to exist in 1947 when it was formally abolished by the Allied occupation powers.

At it's peak Prussia was the biggest "Kingdom" in the German Empire. Of course before it's rise to prominence Austria was the most important power in Germany. What we now know as Germany is what was called " Kleindeutschland" (Lesser Germany) in the 19th century. As it excluded Austria due to Habsburg control of "non-German" territory (Hungary/central europe)

Victor

I suppose one could compare the English role in the UK with Prussia's role inthe German Empire, but note that Prussia was divided intot he following provinces:

East Prussia
West Prussia
Posen
Pomerania
Berlin
Brandenburg
Silesia
Saxony
Schleswig-Holst.
Hannover
Westfalen
Hessen-Nassau
Rheinland
Hohenzollern

http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/germany.htm

pavb2

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Podcast-Directory/History/European-History/The-Rise-and-Fall-of-the-Second-Reich-Podcast/24264

or http://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/history-167b-fall-2007-the/id461115995



Rise & Fall of The Second Reich

Good resource or go direct to the Berkeley University, History 167B series of lectures and podcasts

dubhthach

The core of Prussia was of course the combination of the Margraviate of Brandenburg (Holy Roman Empire) and the Duchy of Prussia (Kingdom of Poland -- secularised remainder of the "Monastic state of the Teutonic Order").

Brandenburg was an electorate in the Holy Roman Empire, it's ruler been one of the men who would elect the Holy Roman Emperor (1st Reich). Both Territories were ruled by branches of the Hohenzollern family. When Duke Albert Frederick of Prussia died in 1618 he was succeeded by his son in law John Sigismund. (Elector/Margave of Brandenburg)

This united the two territories under one ruler. The Territortry of the Duchy of Prussia basically confirmed to what was know as "East Prussia" during the 20th century (now divided between Russia and Poland). It laid outside the boundaries of the Holy Roman Empire and thus owed no allegiance to the Emperor (which was monopolised by the Habsburg family), however his "feudal lord" was the King of Poland.

This was due to the destruction of the power of the Teutonic Order at the Battle of Grunwald in 1410 where the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were victors. The result was the reduction of the Teutonic state to a rump (Duchy of Prussia) that was a tributary state to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (specifically the Kingdom of Poland)

The reason why this is important is that it allowed Frederick III Elector of Brandenburg to declare himself "King in Prussia" in 1701. He had the support of the Habsburgs for political reasons (War of Spanish Succession + Great Northern War). What this basically meant was the while in Prussia he was a King, though in Brandenburg he was a Margrave/Elector (Sort of like King of England been feudal Liege as Duke of Normandy in France)

Brandenburg-Prussia expanded in territorial size during 17th and 18th century due to 30 year war, Frederick the Great and the Partitions of Poland.

During the 19th century after the Napolenic wars it gained territory both in Rhineland (it had inherited some duchies there earlier) and by grabbing a section of Saxony. With the defeat of Austria during the Austro-Prussian war they proceed to swallow the Kingdom of Hanover as well as Schleswig-Holst. reaching it's greatest extent.