Who owns the ballot paper once you are handed it!?!

HellFireClub

Right, this might sound a bit Freeman'ish, but something had occurred to me yesterday evening when I was voting, for the avoidance of doubt, I didn't do anything other than take my ballot papers and cast my vote in a normal way, but anyway, here we go...!

Say I was handed my 3 ballot papers yesterday, and I decided after clearing the checking process at the desk, that I didn't want to proceed with casting my vote.

Say for example, I wanted to participate in a peaceful political protest outside the voting centre by setting fire to my ballot paper, or by defacing it and having my picture taken, as part of a (peaceful) protest, to highlight my annoyance at the state of the country, whatever, etc.

Obviously, this creates a major problem for the returning officer, because the ballots IN THE BOXES THAT ARE OPENED, are counted and MUST MATCH the number of ballot papers that were given to voters.

Now say I was a Freeman believer and I wanted to make this protest I outlined above, and the basis for driving this one through was that I insisted that the ballot paper, once issued to me, is my property and on that basis, I can do whatever I want with it...

Just wondering what the legal position is regarding the legal ownership of the ballot paper (once it has been issued to me).

The constitution provides that the ballot must be kept secret, so how open is it to any official to challenge me if they observe me walking out the count centre door in the knowledge that I haven't actually put my ballot paper into the ballot box?!?

MagicSean

I don't think the numbers would be the problem. It's the risk of you passing your vote to another that would be the problem.

HellFireClub

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think the numbers would be the problem. It's the risk of you passing your vote to another that would be the problem.

I don't get the point you are making there?

source

HellFireClub wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think the numbers would be the problem. It's the risk of you passing your vote to another that would be the problem.

I don't get the point you are making there?

If you take the papers outside there's nothing stopping you from handing it to another person who fills in both and places them in the box.

MagicSean

If you leave the polling station and give your ballot paper to another individual who subsequently uses it to vote along with his own their would be a world of problems.

Section 101 of the Electoral Act requires the voter to put the ballot paper in the ballot box.

It is an offence under Section 138(f) to remove the ballot paper from the polling station.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0023/sec0138.html#sec138

johnnyskeleton

I assume it is like an ATM card - the bank/state owns it but you get to use it.

HellFireClub

MagicSean wrote: »

If you leave the polling station and give your ballot paper to another individual who subsequently uses it to vote along with his own their would be a world of problems.

Section 101 of the Electoral Act requires the voter to put the ballot paper in the ballot box.

It is an offence under Section 138(f) to remove the ballot paper from the polling station.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0023/sec0138.html#sec138

Interestingly, according to sub section (b): he maliciously destroys, tears or defaces a ballot paper, or...

It is an offence to spoil your vote!

Our man in Havana

It is an offence to spoil your vote!

Have there ever been any successful prosecutions?

BrianD

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Have there ever been any successful prosecutions?

The secrecy of the vote would actually prevent this to be proved. Likewise the secrecy of the ballot would also hinder proving that somebody had voted more than once.

Victor

BrianD wrote: »

The secrecy of the vote would actually prevent this to be proved. Likewise the secrecy of the ballot would also hinder proving that somebody had voted more than once.

No, if polling staff / personation officers in polling station A give evidence that person X voted there and polling staff / personation officers in polling station B give evidence that person X voted there, a conviction could be secured.

BrianD

Victor wrote: »

No, if polling staff / personation officers in polling station A give evidence that person X voted there and polling staff / personation officers in polling station B give evidence that person X voted there, a conviction could be secured.

True, but wouldn't it have to be proved that the ballot went into the box? Could a polling staff be sure that even though they ticked me off the list, saw me in the place could they be reliably recall that I actually put a ballot in the box and that it was actually the ballot paper. Obviously, it would be much easier to prove if my two ballot papers could be presented.

I'm not saying that multiple voters can't be caught but the secrecy of the ballot makes it harder to prove.

Has there been many convictions of multiple voting?