Protoss learning :'(

TheDoc

Howdy,

I know there is a million and one websites and posts that might outline this ****, but figured it would be good to get some discussion going where I'm actually central to it.

I was playing Terran in Platinum season one then dissapeared. I'm back now to try my hand at Protoss and end of Season 3 my five placements put me in Plat again and while I started off getting mauled, i've got a bit steady.

But I want to learn and move forward to be a competitive Platinum player for this season, and I dont think there is a better place then asking here, remembering the good Protoss players knocking about.

I might upload some replays when I get home to maybe get people to tear my game apart, but at the moment I'm working off a couple of strats very basic strats per race until I'm comfy with the protoss play to go into more builds

PvT
2 Gate Robo Expand
or
Chargelots with HT/Archon ( not really got a solid build for this)

PvZ
Forge expand where applicable into mass gateway and collosus(immortals if I'm against roach heavy)
or
3 Gate robo to deny third base

PvP
4 Gate( having difficulty getting my second forward pylon up ramps)
or
3 Gate Robo

I'm looking at a few other bits, ( SC2Dojo giving me ideas).

I just wanted to get the ball rolling, hopefully if I can get some replays attached could get some feedback.

Main concern is against Terran, I don't feel that confident.

Against Protoss I feel good but typically don't go into macro game,s i've won or lost within 15 minutes

Zerg I feel comfy against. With my forge expand I typically amass a massive army to tear through, or if I'm been agressive denying a third base I usually always feel ahead.

Decerto

Well i just wrote out like 500 word essay on pvt and tried to post it but i wasnt logged in so I lost it all.

So instead ask specific questions and I can give you specific answers or replays or builds!

NeoSlicerZ

Hmmm, I'm going to try and get in some PvTs vs sinister this weekend, you're welcome to obs if you're on though my PvT sucks balls and I can use voice comms of some sort to explain my thought process, probably not during the game though since that's really hard... I can definitely show you some builds for PvZ as well, though some variation of FFE + 7g timing should be your staple with 2g forge/3g expo as backup. PvP is... pretty hilarious right now.

Orizio

At silver (up to Diamond really) just constantly build probes and spend your money. Max out as quickly as possible and then a-move. You do not need to work on 5-6 different builds, that would be detrimental if anything.

StrOut88

You need to show some love to the stargate.

Funky

It's pretty all-in but a 7gate with 1/1 following a FFE and some harass with VRs seems pretty strong against zerg atm.

PvT I'm not so sure of atm, haven't been playing much so my timings are pretty bad but 1gate/2gate expands, depending on the map, are what I reckon are the strongest.

PvP is kinda in chaos atm. But I've found doing a chargelot heavy late 4gate timing with 1 archon to break FFs is very nice at breaking robo openings which are pretty common at the moment.

NeoSlicerZ

Just some add ons to what I was saying on BNet. 2g robo is a dated but very safe build and... you will more than likely die to a terran bio timing if he 1 rax f/ed, you expo is delayed compared to 2 rax reactor first unless you went immo first near blindly... which puts you behind TL first etc etc etc..

Either 1g or 2g expo, robo if you feel 1/1/1 tank push coming usually signalled by only marines + gas taken. If you 20 nexus and see only marines, robo at 5:45, chrono out obs, a 28-30 1g sentry expand will give you a much more powerful early midgame and more options to mass gate attack but is much less stable than 20 1gas 1g nexus.

Avoid stargate unless you 2/3g void, it's extremely multitask intensive and you need to be able to transition very well. Also, if you expand relatively early, if terran pulls half his scvs and a moves, you will die. A somewhat similar story for DTs.

IRL_Sinister

Protoss OP.

TheDoc

Well 2Gate expo has been going pretty well today.

I go 2 gate expand then robo and get defensive until I feel I can push.

A terran last game there put me under major pressure which I thankfully held off

TheDoc

Had some good success with this build, I saw Grubby use it a good few times so wrote it down and worked on it a bit and have beaten every Terran I've played today convincinly

Expand 7gate push

9 pylon
15 nexus (scout)
15 gateway
17 pylon
18 gas
22 cybernetics core

Move into 7 gate push

Objective of the push is to kill the Terran expo, while I'm pushing I'm also making a Robo with immortals, until such time I can get a second Robo and more immortals.

Then its about just sniping expansions and keeping him contained until blink and enough upgrades are done that I can just blink in and snipe his sieged tanks

I attached a replay of my latest win with it

Decerto

I messed about with nexus first for a while, and while its awesome v terrans who go 1 rax FE as they cant pressure well with pure marine, the slightest marauder/bunker pressure can cripple you if you dont deal with it well.

You might do well with it at your level but once you reach semi decent terrans who have gone rax then gas they will make the early game hell for you, some times you come out ahead ofc but its quite a coinflippy build, its a massive eco cheese on all maps that arnt crevasse imo.

I think ideally it should be for standard play;

Scout gaseless rax+orbital build on any map = 20 nexus eco build, make sure he gets orbital with scouting probe or could be marine scv all in, be active with your stalker to be forewarned of any scv pulling nonsense. Your robo can be delayed till 6:30ish mins coz of no chance of fast cloak banshee

Big map but scouting denied or you scout rax then gas = 30 nex (zealot then double stalker with double chrono(1gas)), robo at 5:45 to get obs out in time if he went cloak banshee

(Rare) Big map and you scout gas first = standard gate robo gate build for fast obs to find out what hes doing, can be blue flame hellion drop/fast cloak banshee etc

Small map and you manage to scout tech lab first or see marauder, gonna be marauder pressure or reaper expo or 3rax = 3gate expo, nexus goes down about 5:45

Small map you see gas after rax but you dont see marauders or tech lab when you poke = gate robo gate ie fast obs, nexus down at 6mins

Any map gaseless but no orbital by time your forced to leave with probe= normally marine scv all in, just chrono stalkers out and its quite easy with some decent probe micro

They are the most eco/safest reactions to what you scout imo and its pretty much what all top protoss do at the moment when they play standard.

There is other **** with 2nd supply depot timings but I cant remember it atm but its on team liquid, i think its fast 2nd depot = tech build, late one = 2rax or something

The way to scout terran is basically if you get in before 3:04(first marine out), see if he has gas or not. If your too late keep probe alive and wait until 3:45 ish(i think?) and poke up the ramp with your probe. You will either see

2 marines or a bunker with marines in it= tech build(factory) or gaseless expo(reason 1/1/1 is dumb coz u have to guess this)

3 marines = reactor first=normally bio opening, can be later cloaked banshee

marine+marauder = tech lab first, generally no need for fast detection so 3gate expo

1 marine= reaper expo/hiding marauders/hiding opening

I normally scout after my 13 gate too

I think that's a pretty good summary of standard early game pvt at least at my level upwards. People do crazy **** in the lower leagues though

I can write about transitioning into the mid and late game and your typical builds and i can give you build orders/replays/vods of top tosses doing these openings too if you find this useful.