The Future of Election Posters

whippet

With Sean Gallagher miles ahead in the polls (before he stepped on the SF landline) without covering the nation in Posters is there any hope that in future election we could be spared this nuisance.

While I realize that the majority of candidates would still want them ... there may be a case now for enforcing some sort of legislation which would either eliminate or dramatically scale down their use?

I always felt that they are used to catch those handful of votes from voters who really don't care, research and just feel they have to vote.

Downlinz

Hopefully we've seen the end of them, in the times thats in it I've been very unimpressed by Higgins, Mitchell and Davis covering the countryside in these posters, they belong in the past.

Send people leaflets to their homes with actual information and substance on what you stand for, not just a picture of you grinning with a "Vote for me" slogan. Nothing but insulting and patronising to the Irish people if they feel that'll swing votes.

anymore

whippet wrote: »

With Sean Gallagher miles ahead in the polls (before he stepped on the SF landline) without covering the nation in Posters is there any hope that in future election we could be spared this nuisance.

While I realize that the majority of candidates would still want them ... there may be a case now for enforcing some sort of legislation which would either eliminate or dramatically scale down their use?

I always felt that they are used to catch those handful of votes from voters who really don't care, research and just feel they have to vote.

The Green Environment Minister John Gormley was the man who should have tackled that matter but he didnt. Ironically the few things visible in the now empty constituency office of Dan Boyle, in Douglas st Cork, is a very large pile of Dan Boyle election posters from the last general election - perhaps he is still hoping to recycle them in a future election.

donegal11

A presidential election is a completely different scenario compared to a general or local election. The presidential candidates have received non stop national press coverage for the last few months, compare that to a local election where the majority don't even know who are their local councilors are. In terms of Sean Gallaghers stance I would say it was money and that the fact he was already well know on dragons den that was the main considerations for him rather then the environment. Without election posters aren't you giving a major advantage to sitting TD's in terms of putting a face to a name etc. In my opinion election posters are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

bijapos

anymore wrote: »

The Green Environment Minister John Gormley was the man who should have tackled that matter but he didnt.

Its not up to John Gormley, or Phil Hogan for that matter to regulate election posters.

Each Council can pass a bye law banning posters for each or any election. They could also pass a law limiting the number of posters that each candidate puts up or limit them to certain areas.

They don't do this, the reason being that politicians are of the opinion that it is the easiest way to get recognition. It is also advantageous to the wealthier parties/politicians as they can get more posters of themselves out there as opposed to poorer parties/candidates.

Ask your local Counillor about their stance on the matter. A number of towns such as Westport and Kinsale made a gentlemans agreement with the candidates this election that they would not poster their towns which is also an alternative, I understand that it was done in one case through the tidy towns group. I've no idea how it worked out, but its up to local initiative and not the relevant Environment Minister.

maccored

the reckon the day will come when telephone poles will comprise of LCD screens for 24/7 advertising. twould be very handy in elections ... could be just like them wee screens you see in macdonalds.

anymore

bijapos wrote: »

Its not up to John Gormley, or Phil Hogan for that matter to regulate election posters.

Each Council can pass a bye law banning posters for each or any election. They could also pass a law limiting the number of posters that each candidate puts up or limit them to certain areas.

They don't do this, the reason being that politicians are of the opinion that it is the easiest way to get recognition. It is also advantageous to the wealthier parties/politicians as they can get more posters of themselves out there as opposed to poorer parties/candidates.

Ask your local Counillor about their stance on the matter. A number of towns such as Westport and Kinsale made a gentlemans agreement with the candidates this election that they would not poster their towns which is also an alternative, I understand that it was done in one case through the tidy towns group. I've no idea how it worked out, but its up to local initiative and not the relevant Environment Minister.

It is through the litter acts that politicans are allowed to erect political posters and not through the regulations of individual LAs. Gormley as Minister for the Environment is the man who should have tackled ti.

http://www.limerickcity.ie/CorporateServices/RegisterofElectors/ElectionPostersFrequentlyAskedQuestions/Thefile,11537,en.pdf

raymon

whippet wrote: »

With Sean Gallagher miles ahead in the polls (before he stepped on the SF landline) without covering the nation in Posters is there any hope that in future election we could be spared this nuisance.

While I realize that the majority of candidates would still want them ... there may be a case now for enforcing some sort of legislation which would either eliminate or dramatically scale down their use?

I always felt that they are used to catch those handful of votes from voters who really don't care, research and just feel they have to vote.

More populist half truths from Gallagher ..... he did put up posters

I see Gallagher posters all over the place....... shopping centers , bins , banners over bridges ,

Downlinz

I've heard about some on bins but indoor advertising is a totally different kettle of fish to outdoor posters which are both unsightly to the countryside and can be a litter hazard if they fall off, which they often do.

His promise was no posters on streets/lamposts etc, which I saw none of. He never said he wouldn't advertise, he said he wouldn't excessively advertise and pour money down the toilet which I think he stuck to.

dunphy3

bijapos wrote: »

Its not up to John Gormley, or Phil Hogan for that matter to regulate election posters.

Each Council can pass a bye law banning posters for each or any election. They could also pass a law limiting the number of posters that each candidate puts up or limit them to certain areas.

They don't do this, the reason being that politicians are of the opinion that it is the easiest way to get recognition. It is also advantageous to the wealthier parties/politicians as they can get more posters of themselves out there as opposed to poorer parties/candidates.

Ask your local Counillor about their stance on the matter. A number of towns such as Westport and Kinsale made a gentlemans agreement with the candidates this election that they would not poster their towns which is also an alternative, I understand that it was done in one case through the tidy towns group. I've no idea how it worked out, but its up to local initiative and not the relevant Environment Minister.

can you quote source,i thought that not putting up posters was purely volentry.

Mr Moxie

I am involved with helping a politician with postering for campaigns and I totally agree that the postering issue should be dealt with.

In my opinion, postering is old school and with modern technology there are alternatives that cost less and have far less environmental impact.
I am aware that politicians feel a sort of, keeping up with the jones' type of pressure when it comes to postering, so legislation to restrict postering would surely be welcomed by most politicians, I would think...
To my horror I discovered that the local Co Council recycling centre has "no outlet to recycle posters" so were putting them to landfill if they came in!!
I wonder how many politicians make a real effort to recycle..? I eventually found a recycling company that will take our posters and recycle them for us.
I have been trying to get the message through to HQ since the last general election that in this time of environmental awareness it is not acceptable to have no strictly enforced rules around recycling of posters.
As far as I'm aware all parties are the same in that regard, its unfortunate.

Another issue I have, which I think is worse than above, is that a lot of cable ties are left on poles and on the ground around poles. When I remove a poster from a pole the vast majority of times there are cable ties left behind from other postering teams, I always remove them and always ask other team members to do the same.
I have asked our party to consider using colour coded cable ties in the future, so that our team members can be held responsible if our cable ties are left behind, I hope they take on my idea.

Finally, I would encourage anyone that is bothered by posters, to strongly voice your opinion to your local politician and ask them to pass on the message to their HQ.
I believe that if enough people complain then it would increase the incentive to make a permanent change.

Lets hope we see less posters in the next local elections.

All the best

anymore

Mr Moxie wrote: »

I am involved with helping a politician with postering for campaigns and I totally agree that the postering issue should be dealt with.

In my opinion, postering is old school and with modern technology there are alternatives that cost less and have far less environmental impact.
I am aware that politicians feel a sort of, keeping up with the jones' type of pressure when it comes to postering, so legislation to restrict postering would surely be welcomed by most politicians, I would think...
To my horror I discovered that the local Co Council recycling centre has "no outlet to recycle posters" so were putting them to landfill if they came in!!
I wonder how many politicians make a real effort to recycle..? I eventually found a recycling company that will take our posters and recycle them for us.
I have been trying to get the message through to HQ since the last general election that in this time of environmental awareness it is not acceptable to have no strictly enforced rules around recycling of posters.
As far as I'm aware all parties are the same in that regard, its unfortunate.

Another issue I have, which I think is worse than above, is that a lot of cable ties are left on poles and on the ground around poles. When I remove a poster from a pole the vast majority of times there are cable ties left behind from other postering teams, I always remove them and always ask other team members to do the same.
I have asked our party to consider using colour coded cable ties in the future, so that our team members can be held responsible if our cable ties are left behind, I hope they take on my idea.

Finally, I would encourage anyone that is bothered by posters, to strongly voice your opinion to your local politician and ask them to pass on the message to their HQ.
I believe that if enough people complain then it would increase the incentive to make a permanent change.

Lets hope we see less posters in the next local elections.

All the best

Well done on your efforts at recycling posters and your suggestions re cables.

I see no reason why LA's cannot on a limited basis discreetly mark cables ties for each candidate, easily done, and then prosecute any offenders who leave the ties behind.

As I type today, the only candidate who has election posters still up in my area of Cork is president elect Higgins. he has a number of the very large posters still up around my areas. I would have though that the winning candidate would take greatest care to ensure the removal of his posters.

Mr Moxie

Thank you anymore.

As you touched on in an earlier post, the litter warden is the one who will issue the fine if the posters are not removed, but they have no way of telling who owns the cable-ties.
So, to me it is obvious that the cable-ties should be colour coded for each candidate.
Labour were very slow to take posters down all around the country, in my opinion it was all about connecting Labour to the positivity of Michael D's win.

I wonder did they get any fines??

All the best

Sulmac

It should be like in France - during French elections, there is space set aside outside each polling station for each candidate to place their posters (and that of their party). Not only does this cut down on the number of posters dramatically, it ensures equality between candidates as those with more money available can't just use it to put posters everywhere.

Mr Moxie

Hi Sulmac

That is very interesting indeed and is similar to one of my own suggestions.
The suggestion I made was to have set locations that could be used for posters.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
What did you think of my thoughts regarding cable ties??

Kind regards

anymore

Unfortunately Mr Moxie the low number of posts on this thread suggest that few others actually care very much and that about sums irish politics up very much - all personalities and few principles.

Sulmac

Mr Moxie wrote: »

What did you think of my thoughts regarding cable ties??

It's a well thought out, logical and easy to implement system that ensures accountability when it comes to removing posters.

That's why it hasn't a chance of being implemented any time soon.

Mr Moxie

anymore wrote: »

Unfortunately Mr Moxie the low number of posts on this thread suggest that few others actually care very much and that about sums irish politics up very much - all personalities and few principles.

Oh well, at least we are talking about it..?
Trying to be positive, I'd like to think that what you are referring to is Old Politics and that future generations will remain better connected to the real world with the help of technology...
Like I said, trying to be positive... : )

Mr Moxie

Sulmac wrote: »

It's a well thought out, logical and easy to implement system that ensures accountability when it comes to removing posters.

That's why it hasn't a chance of being implemented any time soon.

Unfortunately you are the second person today that called it too logical to be implemented...

I can only do my best... I wont except no without a somewhat logical reason and I am very very stubborn : )

Thank you for the feedback Sulmac
We'll see how it goes...

Kind regards

the groutch

Downlinz wrote: »

His promise was no posters on streets/lamposts etc, which I saw none of. He never said he wouldn't advertise, he said he wouldn't excessively advertise and pour money down the toilet which I think he stuck to.

I still got my leaflet in the post, which probably went to every household in the country.

There are easy options to save money.

Have each council set up a dedicated site for an election, with each candidate having their own page to use for campaigning.

Replace thousands of posters with large boards in key locations, on which each candidate displays an equal sized poster.

The same could be done with bus shelters, with an independently produced poster highlighting the candidates.

Have all postal election literature amalgamated into one single brochure, which is either handed out in public (so that people can decide they don't want it), or posted to people on an opt-in basis.

human 19

I heard a radio discussion about posters after the previous election.
Labour's "but are you happy" didn't go down well with the people intervewed for the show.

Some aul ones stated that they like to see a picture of the person they are voting for.... as if how someone looks is going to dictate how they run the country.

As long as that type of stupidity is out there I cant see an end to postering.

caddy2

as already mentioned the poster regime is outdated. it was different when the media and communications were not as good back in the 20s and 30s but hey governement, move with the times guys!!
i wonder if the ousting of sean gallagher was something that the seasoned politicans had to do or sean would make them look like a laughing stock. the poster issue is elementary and a basic change. any of our politicians now would be too afraid to try not putting up posters in case it would back fire. sean was the only one that had the liathroidi to do it. and cos they will all be too chicken **** to do it they will have to waste time putting it throuh the dail to make sure no one will print posters for the next election

anymore

Mr Moxie wrote: »

Oh well, at least we are talking about it..?
Trying to be positive, I'd like to think that what you are referring to is Old Politics and that future generations will remain better connected to the real world with the help of technology...
Like I said, trying to be positive... : )

Yes indeed we are. I even found one councillor on Cork City Council willing to talk about the pollution from illegal advertising signs and trailers ...just one !

Maybe we could focus on the breaking of the litter laws by the small minority of businesses that do so and the LAs who allow them to ?

Mr Moxie

T

anymore wrote: »

Mr Moxie wrote: »

Oh well, at least we are talking about it..?
Trying to be positive, I'd like to think that what you are referring to is Old Politics and that future generations will remain better connected to the real world with the help of technology...
Like I said, trying to be positive... : )

Yes indeed we are. I even found one councillor on Cork City Council willing to talk about the pollution from illegal advertising signs and trailers ...just one !

Maybe we could focus on the breaking of the litter laws by the small minority of businesses that do so and the LAs who allow them to ?

That is a difficult one as it impacts small businesses when they are restricted/prevented from advertising in that way, it is particularly difficult if the land they are on is private.
I have just started a small manufacturing business and I can see how beneficial it could be to advertise my product in particular locations.
However, imagine if there was a free for all on advertising on trailers etc it would be a mess!
Maybe we should start a different thread to discuss the advertising/littering issue as it is a different issue than the original post here??

Regards

HivemindXX

anymore wrote: »

As I type today, the only candidate who has election posters still up in my area of Cork is president elect Higgins. he has a number of the very large posters still up around my areas. I would have though that the winning candidate would take greatest care to ensure the removal of his posters.

Do you mean billboard advertising? As far as I know there is no requirement to take these down since they on private property not LA property. I'd have thought that the campaign would have stopped paying for these on the day of the election and it was up to the billboard owner to remove the old ad and replace it with one from whoever is currently paying.

Gallagher got some criticism because his face was plastered in certain places after he had said he would have no posters. However I think this is different and I have no problem with politicians using billboards and other paid advertising slots (busses, rubbish bins etc). These already have ads on them and it makes no real difference whether I am treated to some politicians air brushed face instead of an insurance companies pitch.

On the other hand if politicians were allowed to buy billboard space (and how could you stop them) but not use telegraph poles for free then those candidates with little money would be shut out almost completely. Perhaps the ability to put posters up in the vicinity of polling places would offset this enough.

anymore

Mr Moxie wrote: »

T

That is a difficult one as it impacts small businesses when they are restricted/prevented from advertising in that way, it is particularly difficult if the land they are on is private.
I have just started a small manufacturing business and I can see how beneficial it could be to advertise my product in particular locations.
However, imagine if there was a free for all on advertising on trailers etc it would be a mess!
Maybe we should start a different thread to discuss the advertising/littering issue as it is a different issue than the original post here??

Regards

Well i have been a small business man myself in the past. But my issue is with illegla advertising signs on public property such as raods, esb poles etc.
Only a very small minority do it and these people are getting an unfair competitive advantage over the vast majority of businesses who do respect the laws. If politicians want to change the planning laws to allow a free for all, then fair enough, I may not like but it would be legal. The big problem and the unfairness is when those who break the law are allowed to do so by the LAs who are obliged by law to implement the law. The other economic arguement for properly enfircing the law is that tourism is ireland''s third biggest indistry and our visual environment is a very big part of our industry.
It is only when i started making visits to other european countries that I realised how the situation is in ireland in relation to this kind of environmental pollution. And the sadder part of this is that the very small minority of polluters put pressure on other small businesses to respond so a vicous circle is set in motion. There is a big difference in attitude amongst the different LAs so the amount of local awareness can be a factor.
I must sau one of my bitter disappointments with the local green party in Cork has been thier utter disinterest in the matter.
Of course it is slightly different from this thread, but not that much and to give credit where it is due , the majority of politicians do remove thier posters if not all the cable ties.

anymore

HivemindXX wrote: »

Do you mean billboard advertising? As far as I know there is no requirement to take these down since they on private property not LA property. I'd have thought that the campaign would have stopped paying for these on the day of the election and it was up to the billboard owner to remove the old ad and replace it with one from whoever is currently paying.

Gallagher got some criticism because his face was plastered in certain places after he had said he would have no posters. However I think this is different and I have no problem with politicians using billboards and other paid advertising slots (busses, rubbish bins etc). These already have ads on them and it makes no real difference whether I am treated to some politicians air brushed face instead of an insurance companies pitch.

On the other hand if politicians were allowed to buy billboard space (and how could you stop them) but not use telegraph poles for free then those candidates with little money would be shut out almost completely. Perhaps the ability to put posters up in the vicinity of polling places would offset this enough.

No I meant the ordianry signs on public roads, light poles etc.

anymore

I see today GAY Mitchell's face is still beaming down on the public from a pole on the major roundabout at Bishopscourt in Cork. Away over in Douglas at what i am told is the ' Finger Post' roundabout, some jokers have retrieved a poster of mz davis from a ditch and re-erected it on a traffic bollard on the roundabout ! Of course if it had been removed from the ditch in the forst place, this wouldnt have happened.