Why did they automatically call in social workers?

tinabyrne5

Had a bit of a unpleasant situation this morning. Sorry if this is a bit long.

My 13 year old daughter was in a bit of a mood and was taking her time getting ready for school this morning. The more my husband and I tried to move her the more she dug her heels in. While I was washing up after breakfast she was in the hall cursing so I call out to her and told her to keep the language to herself, I didn't here her response but my 18 year old who was walking down the stairs heard everything she said.

The 18 year old confronted the 13 year old and told her "don't ever speak to mam that way". The 13 year old lashed out a kick to the 18 year old shins and the 18 year old pushed the 13 year old away but the child lightly knocked her head off the frame of the door. Now, she wasn't hurt because it wasn't a hard bang but I think the 13 year old was more upset by the confrontation.

Both my husband and I were on our toes and put a stop to any potential fight. We spoke to the 18 year old and told her that she was too old to be hurting her little sister although it wasn't intentional. I asked the 13 year old if she was ok and she said she was.

So we packed them off to school. At about 12 o clock my husband and I arrived home after a few appointments and a bit of shopping to find 2 social workers waiting for us sitting in their car. I greeted them and welcomed them into my home where they told me that they got a call from the school and needed to investigate what had happened.

We told them what happened and then they went to interview the 13 year old to make sure both accounts matched, which they did. We were advised to bring the child to the doctors to make sure she was ok, which we did and she's fine.

Now I'm not a unknowing twat who is wet behind the ears, I've been a full-time mum for over 18 years and I know children have to be protected but I also know that these things happen, BUT what I can't understand is why the school didn't contact me or my husband to confirm what had happened? Why did they automatically call in social workers?

Morag

Because they have to under the new children first policies and while you may see it as two siblings having a spat your other child is an adult and it means she was hit by an adult family member, which puts a different slant on it then two minors.

Yes it's an upsetting thing to have happen and it means there is a file opened on your family which will remain active for two years and then closed out and even then it will always be in the system but the same thing could happen to a child who need intervention and is being abused at home, so it's the price we pay.

Kildrought

I'm stunned... never heard of SWs responding so quickly.

tinabyrne5

Sharrow wrote: »

your son is an adult and it means she was hit by an adult family member, which puts a different slant on it then two minors.

This was between my 2 daughters (not son) and the 18 year old didn't hit her she simply pushed the 13 year old away when she was kicked

unkel

tinabyrne5 wrote: »

to find 2 social workers waiting for us sitting in their car. I greeted them and welcomed them into my home where they told me that they got a call from the school and needed to investigate what had happened.

:eek:

We can only take your word for it as for what happened, but if that was the case what possessed your 13 year old girl to go to the school and to make sure she made a fairly formal complaint of abuse, formal and serious enough to get social services involved

I would be very worried about her mental state

Morag

Kildrought wrote: »

I'm stunned... never heard of SWs responding so quickly.

They have to respond with in 24 hours of a report being made, as soon as they were available.

LadyMayBelle

I'm not shocked they responded; they have to react to a call within 24hours and perhaps whoever was on duty was able to make that visit? On one side it could be that they figured it was not going to be a consuming visit, as it was most likely a minor domestic, but either way it's good they acted so fast and efficiently.

Has your daughter been able to talk to someone in the school about what happened?

silly

I think it's a good thing that they went straight over your head and straight to social services.
While your case is an honest accident, unfortunately many others may not be.
But I would be speaking to the 13 yr old and let her know how serious it was for her to tell the school what happened.

Penny Dreadful

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

I'm not shocked they responded; they have to react to a call within 24hours and perhaps whoever was on duty was able to make that visit? On one side it could be that they figured it was not going to be a consuming visit, as it was most likely a minor domestic, but either way it's good they acted so fast and efficiently.

Has your daughter been able to talk to someone in the school about what happened?[/QUOTE]

If its the 13 year old your asking about, then she did, otherwise the social workers wouldn't have been called. If its the 18 year old

Either way, what on earth was your 13 year old doing talking about a fairly trivial matter like this with teachers at school for?

ziggy23

Jesus that is crazy! Back when I was 13 I was always covered in bruises from scrapping with my brothers I would not dream of making a complaint:eek:

James Jones

Sharrow wrote: »

tinabyrne5 wrote: »

what I can't understand is why the school didn't contact me or my husband to confirm what had happened? Why did they automatically call in social workers?

Because they have to under the new children first policies

The School were wrong to involve Social Workers without first informing the parents. According to THIS ARTICLE the legislation making Children First obligatory has not been published, never mind enacted.

hopefully, we will have the legislation by the end of the year, certainly published, if not enacted.

They might have been right to fear the worst but they had no authority to overstep their remit and interfere with family affairs. See if you can find a good Constitutional lawyer.

nothing

I think the school did the right thing, and that it's good that your daughter is able to speak to someone in the school about what's happening at home, even though in this case it seems very innocent. I'm glad it was cleared up so quickly too.

Too many families cover up abuse and kids don't have anyone to speak to, it's better to be out there and a few of the innocent cases go through the system, than for nothing to be done at all about any of the bad cases.

James Jones

nothing wrote: »

I think the school did the right thing.

Thats your opinion but they had NO RIGHT TO DO SO.

silly wrote: »

I think it's a good thing that they went straight over your head and straight to social services.

Yea, maybe you'll feel the same when they march into your house and question you because you stopped your child playing a video game when they should have been doing their homework or you grounded your nine year old daughter for having a boyfriend? Or maybe you don't read to your children at bedtime?
At the moment, we all have a constitutional right to privacy and family life but the State is gearing up to interfere. Now, before this goes any further please don't anyone come on here saying that the SS will only become involved if you are abusing your child. Remember, abuse has some very wide definitions. For example, Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn recently stated HERE that

A child who is not read to when going to bed at night is an abused child.

Moonbeam

I think you need to sit the 13 year old down and find out exactly what she said.
Do they frequently have physical rows?
Is the 18 year old still in school? Do they go to the same school?
Do they get along with each other? with you and their dad?
Has she any reason to want to get back at you for anything?
I would also go down to the school and meet with both the teacher involved and the principal.

If it was exactly as you say I feel extremely sorry for the 18 year old being put through that.

Morag

James Jones wrote: »

The School were wrong to involve Social Workers without first informing the parents. According to THIS ARTICLE the legislation making Children First obligatory has not been published, never mind enacted.

They might have been right to fear the worst but they had no authority to overstep their remit and interfere with family affairs. See if you can find a good Constitutional lawyer.

That maybe so but it's been rolled out

http://www.hse.ie/go/childrenfirst

Children First

Children First is Ireland's national guidance for the protection and welfare of children.

The aim of Children First is to promote the safety and well-being of children. Parents and guardians have the main responsibility for the care and protection of children. Some parents, for a range of reasons, are not able to provide proper care for their children. These families need more intensive assessment, support and direct interventions to ensure the safety and well-being of their children. People working with children and the wider public know that early action by them is very often the best way to protect children and to enable a family to stay together. Professionals also have an important part to play and their actions need to reflect the principles and objectives of the Child Care Act 1991 and of this national guidance.

Read Children First 2011
Read The Child Protection and Welfare Practice Handbook
Read Children First Key Messages
Read Children First FAQs
Read Gordon Jeyes letter to staff, Allied Professionals and Partner Agencies re Children First
Read Our Duty to Care
Read HSE Children First 2011 Press release
Download Children First Standard Report Form

Concerns
Information on how to report a concern, definintions of abuse.

Advice, guidance and support
The HSE can provide advice, guidance and supports to organisations and individuals working with children.

If you have queries about Children First email childrenfirst@hse.ie

eaglej13

Sharrow wrote: »

They have to respond with in 24 hours of a report being made, as soon as they were available.

not true, no time limit

eaglej13

silly wrote: »

I think it's a good thing that they went straight over your head and straight to social services.
While your case is an honest accident, unfortunately many others may not be.
But I would be speaking to the 13 yr old and let her know how serious it was for her to tell the school what happened.

a good thing to go behind honest parents, dont make me sick. u send ur kids to school, keeping them in jobs, first bit of trouble, they stabb u in back and call social.. system in ireland is joke.. please tell me this is not what we are as irish.
back stabbing, unethical, unsupportive, dis respectable

it's the child(13) they need to speak to, and question, and question and then( no offence mum) give her kick in the as and tell her to respect her family.

RachaelVO

I have to say I think it's shocking!

How dare the school decide to take steps without actually clarifying anything, there was 4 of us growing up and god knows we KILLED each other, not a single doubt about it.

If as you say OP there were no alarm bells ringing at the school prior to this, they had no business going to social workers first.

Then having said that, my opinion of social workers in Ireland isn't exactly high, they will take on stuff that's easy for them to deal with, as has been shown through different cases that have been highlighted by the media, and by their own abysmal statistics. Unfortunately your were only part of their quota, where they can be seen to do something, but heaven forbid they'd actually go after the cases that warrant such speed, but then that would involve confrontation, and why would they get involved in that?

Sorry Rant over

eaglej13

RachaelVO wrote: »

I have to say I think it's shocking!

How dare the school decide to take steps without actually clarifying anything, there was 4 of us growing up and god knows we KILLED each other, not a single doubt about it.

If as you say OP there were no alarm bells ringing at the school prior to this, they had no business going to social workers first.

Then having said that, my opinion of social workers in Ireland isn't exactly high, they will take on stuff that's easy for them to deal with, as has been shown through different cases that have been highlighted by the media, and by their own abysmal statistics. Unfortunately your were only part of their quota, where they can be seen to do something, but heaven forbid they'd actually go after the cases that warrant such speed, but then that would involve confrontation, and why would they get involved in that?

Sorry Rant over

RESPECT TO YA

Moonbeam

eaglej13 wrote: »

RESPECT TO YA

*mod warning*

If you have nothing helpful to contribute to the thread then please do not contribute.

Moonbeam

*mod note*
Please if you are stating something to be fact back it up.

Thanks

James Jones

Sharrow wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

They might have been right to fear the worst but they had no authority to overstep their remit and interfere with family affairs. See if you can find a good Constitutional lawyer.

That maybe so but it's been rolled out

http://www.hse.ie/go/childrenfirst

Does it not bother you that it has not been "rolled out" yet? Do you not think they need to wait for the legislation to be enacted before storming into peoples lives un-regulated? Imagine a Garda stopping you and finding that you were over the new drink-drive limit BEFORE it was brought into place?

If this action is legal, then is there any necessity for a Childrens Rights referendum???

silly

eaglej13 wrote: »

silly wrote: »

I think it's a good thing that they went straight over your head and straight to social services.
While your case is an honest accident, unfortunately many others may not be.
But I would be speaking to the 13 yr old and let her know how serious it was for her to tell the school what happened.

a good thing to go behind honest parents, dont make me sick. u send ur kids to school, keeping them in jobs, first bit of trouble, they stabb u in back and call social.. system in ireland is joke.. please tell me this is not what we are as irish.
back stabbing, unethical, unsupportive, dis respectable

it's the child(13) they need to speak to, and question, and question and then( no offence mum) give her kick in the as and tell her to respect her family.

What's SICK is the amount of children out there who are being abused, and nothing being done as people will most likely believe the parents when they make out it was an innocent accident.
So they went over the parents head, it was all cleared up with a quick meeting with the parents.
Like I said before, it's the child that needs to be made understand how serious it was talking to the school.

gcgirl

I think it's mad, when I was a kid me and my cousin used to knock lumps out of one another, I was 3 yrs older than him but he started all the fights arguments and was a fooked up little b'stard to be honest nothing's changed but every family is kind of the same, Christ I even seen a senior social worker have what I would refer to as a 5 yr olds temper tantrum when she and her sister had a falling out

fenris

You should probably have a chat with the school and find out who the individual was who made the decision based on an incorrect understanding of the legislation and insist that the get properly trained before taking such steps in the future, who knows what else they are getting wrong.

At the very least they should have contacted you.

UDP

Op, I don't see what the big deal is. Yes maybe it was a little insulting but I would rather a few people insulted rather than one child actually abused.

Morag

James Jones wrote: »

Does it not bother you that it has not been "rolled out" yet? Do you not think they need to wait for the legislation to be enacted before storming into peoples lives un-regulated? Imagine a Garda stopping you and finding that you were over the new drink-drive limit BEFORE it was brought into place?

If this action is legal, then is there any necessity for a Childrens Rights referendum???

They can change the policy any which way they want, with out having to wait for the changes to the legislation on mandatory reporting, that will only make it a legal offence not to report, in the mean time they have rolled out the rest of it changing the guidelines for everyone invovled with children in a professional and voluntary bases.

I am very pissed off that there is no political will to tackle the Children's Rights referendum it is something I bring up frequently with my TD's and have done so with those running in the by election today.

James Jones

Sharrow wrote: »

They can change the policy any which way they want, with out having to wait for the changes to the legislation on mandatory reporting.

I don't think so.

Remember the Roscommon incest case? They could not intervene because of "Constitutional" issues so they can't just make it up themselves.
(We do have rights, you know!)

Orion

The OP has closed her account so won't be replying on this thread anymore. In the interest of fairness I'm closing the thread as she has no longer got a right to reply.