ISL Classes/Courses

The Black Oil

Hey,

I see from one of the other threads that sign language courses can be a bit expensive. I've been thinking about doing one for a while - how rigorous are they, what can you expect?

donegalgirl28

If you go for a beginner class, you should be expected to know the basic greetings and have basic conversational skills. The class is normally of about 10 students and is taught by a Deaf teacher.

The first class normally uses an interpreter with the Deaf teacher but the classes after that should be just with the Deaf teacher but I know there are some teachers out there who use interpreters for the whole course which is not good as the best way is to immerse yourself in the language.

Delancey

Is American Sign Language radically different from Irish version ?

I presume British and Irish Sign Language are pretty much identical ?

Faith+1

Delancey wrote: »

Is American Sign Language radically different from Irish version ?

I presume British and Irish Sign Language are pretty much identical ?

From what I was told last week, Irish and British sign langauge are vastly different. For instance we only use one hand for the alphabet whereas they use both. I also got the impression that British Sign is alot more difficult to learn and ISL is much easier.

One thing that is purely typical of this Country is that ISL is not a recognised langauge by the Government yet the British Government recognises it. Just another way for our cheap ass politicians to save money.

The Black Oil

So, you'd need to be a bit up-to-speed before starting anything?

Is Lamh different again?

Faith+1

Black Oil wrote: »

So, you'd need to be a bit up-to-speed before starting anything?

Sorry what do you mean?

Black Oil wrote: »

Is Lamh different again?

Yes, Lamh would be a much more simplified version of ISL. I'd assume it's different to the British equivalent but am not 100%.

What's your skill level as a matter of interest?

sineadom

Hi guys,
I was a complete beginner when I started sign language classes but it's so much easier to pick up than a spoken language, it's so visual and expressive.
Definitely the best way to learn is from a Deaf teacher.

ISL and BSL are entirely different because ISL is a language that developed in Ireland over the cenuries, not a translation of the spoken language that we use (ie. English now). It's actually closer to American Sign Language due to the history of its development. What Faith said about ISL having a one handed alphabet (whereas BSL has a two handed one) is right and ASL has an almost identical alphabet to ours.

Lámh is a basic system of communication as opposed to a language and has nothing to do with deaf people - it's used for people with communication difficulties, who usually also have additional learning needs. Its signs are unrelated to ISL, some look similar because they are based on the visual appearance of things (eg. plane) but that's all.

Anyone interested in learning ISL really should go for it. It's fun to learn and so worthwhile to have. And it's sadly true that ISL is not recognised as a national language of our country despite the fact that 40,000 people use it on a daily basis.:(

The Irish Deaf Society is the place to go for any more info you might be looking for; www.irishdeafsociety.ie

Delancey

I remember a couple of years ago a very big demonstration in London by deaf people ( tbh I can't recall what the protest was about specifically ).
I was very impressed to see Police Officers communicating in fluent sign language with the organisers , stewards , etc.
However, it emerged that these were the only Police in London who could sign , the London Metropolitan Police ( aka ' The Met ' ) is a huge force with over 30,000 officers but out of that number only 2 could use sign language.

Is it realistic to think that an internationally acceptable sign language could be introduced or is inevitable there will always be different ones for different countries ?

Faith+1

sineadom wrote: »

Hi guys,
I was a complete beginner when I started sign language classes but it's so much easier to pick up than a spoken language, it's so visual and expressive.
Definitely the best way to learn is from a Deaf teacher.

I'm still working away at it. Any chance you can help me improve my signing? I have classes every monday but I don't think that's enough and am eager to keep improving. No worries if you can't

donegalgirl28

Delancey wrote: »

I remember a couple of years ago a very big demonstration in London by deaf people ( tbh I can't recall what the protest was about specifically ).
I was very impressed to see Police Officers communicating in fluent sign language with the organisers , stewards , etc.
However, it emerged that these were the only Police in London who could sign , the London Metropolitan Police ( aka ' The Met ' ) is a huge force with over 30,000 officers but out of that number only 2 could use sign language.

Is it realistic to think that an internationally acceptable sign language could be introduced or is inevitable there will always be different ones for different countries ?

There is a system called International Sign which borrows signs from a lot of different countries. It's not a real language though, it's simply gestures and borrowed signs.

There will always be different ones for different countries, and so it should be! Imagine a world where everyone spoke the same language? It would be a boring place!

The Black Oil

Faith+1 wrote: »

What's your skill level as a matter of interest

Zero...

Faith+1 wrote: »

Sorry what do you mean?

Sorry, I may have this backwards. What I picked up from donegalgirl's post was that you'd need to have picked up the alphabet/basic skills before going near a beginner's class.

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

If you go for a beginner class, you should be expected to know the basic greetings and have basic conversational skills. The class is normally of about 10 students and is taught by a Deaf teacher.

The first class normally uses an interpreter with the Deaf teacher but the classes after that should be just with the Deaf teacher but I know there are some teachers out there who use interpreters for the whole course which is not good as the best way is to immerse yourself in the language.

donegalgirl28

No I meant, after having attended the beginners class, you should be expected to know basic greetings etc...

Faith+1

Black Oil wrote: »

Zero...
Sorry, I may have this backwards. What I picked up from donegalgirl's post was that you'd need to have picked up the alphabet/basic skills before going near a beginner's class.

Not at all Black Oil! I was exactly where you are about 5 weeks ago. I didn't know the Alphabet, how to count, how to greet someone, how to say my name etc.... I already know how to do this and more.

You don't need to know any sign before starting a class, that's why it's called a Beginners class! You'll surprise yourself on how quick you will pick it up! And the more people that learn ISL the better, there's strenght in numbers and maybe one day this government will recognise this language!

The Black Oil

OK, thanks.

Why is it not recognised, or is asking that opening a can of worms?

Faith+1

Black Oil wrote: »

OK, thanks.

Why is it not recognised, or is asking that opening a can of worms?

Because it would cost the Irish Government too much money. For instance if a Deaf person is admitted to hospital they have to pay to have an interpreter to help them communicate with the hospital staff because it's not a recognised language.

If it was a recognised language however the Government has to provide one free of charge as it's your constitutional right. The craziest thing about this, is that ISL is a recognised language in Northern Ireland!

The sooner the better this thing goes to a referendum the better!

donegalgirl28

The hospitals do have to pay for interpreters for us. If not, then it's a matter for Equality Authority. They pay foreign language interpreters for foreigners in hospitals so they damn well better be paying for interpreters for citizens of Ireland.

You are partly right as it will cost too much money but there is an ISL Recognition Group who have met with a couple of Ministers and working on a proposed bill. If it is to be recognised, it will mean a referendum but the problem is, a lot of people don't actually realise that it is a language.

I dream of the day Ireland will have recognition of ISL. If they do, I'd probably cry with happiness!

looksee

If it were a language would the government not be obliged to circulate things like voting papers in sign language? Yes I know that is not necessary or possible, but that is what is required of an official language. It is, I think, not legally necessary to circulate these documents in braille (or is it?) which would also be a good idea.

While it is obviously not only desirable, but should be a right, to inclusivity for everyone, it isn't just a matter of declaring signing a language. It is quite possible that there is a good argument that it is not in fact a language by strict definition, an another form or definition might have to be established. Do any other countries recognise signing as a language?

These are questions and reflections, I am not intending to be provocative.

donegalgirl28

looksee wrote: »

If it were a language would the government not be obliged to circulate things like voting papers in sign language? Yes I know that is not necessary or possible, but that is what is required of an official language. It is, I think, not legally necessary to circulate these documents in braille (or is it?) which would also be a good idea.

While it is obviously not only desirable, but should be a right, to inclusivity for everyone, it isn't just a matter of declaring signing a language. It is quite possible that there is a good argument that it is not in fact a language by strict definition, an another form or definition might have to be established. Do any other countries recognise signing as a language?

These are questions and reflections, I am not intending to be provocative.

Perhaps we should have a Should ISL be recognised as a language thread?

Mods can you move the posts over to a new thread????

I can most definitely tell you that ISL is a language, it has it's own grammar, syntax, structure, verbs, nouns, everything! There has been numerous research PhDs on it as well as books published. Some of the references are here - https://www.stjerome.co.uk/tsa/abstract/534/#references

Dunno if you know but there is a 4 year Honours Degree programme you can do in Trinity around ISL, either interpreting, Deaf studies or ISL Teaching. So it most definitely is a language!

As for recognition, there are a lot of countries which have recognised their sign languages as an official language of the state, for example New Zealand, Macedonia, Venezuela, Spain. A lot of other countries have recognised as a language by law or in education (Ireland has it in education but it's not enough).

Funnily enough, Northern Ireland has recognised both British Sign Language (BSL) and ISL as an official language! :rolleyes:

Moon Indigo

Hi I know this an old thread and probably won't get a response but here goes. I am really interested in learning sign language I started classes a long time ago but had to give them up. I would be a complete beginner but can anyone recommend classes or were does them? I am in Kildare but be best to maybe travel to Dublin. Thank you to anyone who can help me

donegalgirl28

http://www.irishdeafsociety.ie/irish-sign-language/where-are-the-classes.html

Moon Indigo

Thank you