My girlfriend makes eyes at male friends on nights out.

LegacyUser

Hi all,

I have an issue that has come to a head in my relationship. I am a 27 year old male, going out with a 22 year old female (casually) for the past year, but officially for the past 6 months. During this time we have dealt with some insecurity and trust issues, more from her direction than mine, these issues perhaps based on very minor seeds of doubt created by me early-on. I however did come out of a LT relationship 3 months before meeting her, with my general trust in women being affected by a fairly horrific cheating episode that caused the breakup.

She is quite insecure in general, and has some strong self-image issues, that I have done my best to allay. On nights out she can be fairly wild, and likes to drink (amongst other things), just like a lot of 22 year old girls. I would consider my attitudes to drink and socialising to be very similar to hers, and I perhaps don't act like a 27 year old man should act like at the best of times, so I'm definitely not a fuddy-duddy older guy in her eyes.

In the past 2 months I have noticed, while she is quite drunk(/amongst other things), that she begins to repeatedly stare at various guys in the group that we hang around in, almost fixatedly. I'll cop it as the night goes on (happened naturally before, nowadays Im looking for it) and she'll do her best to be cute about it, flashing her head/eyes quickly at the one guy every 5-10 seconds. It seems to have happened with quite a few guys (5 or so since early Sep.). I (we) thought I was crazy at first, and that my paranoia was probably a product of my previous bad brekup, but last weekend I (nuts behaviour, I know) videoed her on my phone to show her in the cold light of day.

When I confronted her last weekend, she didn't accept it until I said that someone else had said something, and I showed her the video. She instantly burst in to tears and seemed genuinely to be in disbelief at her actions. The confusing part of which being that she has ZERO attraction to the guy in question in sober mind. I took some time away from her for last week to think, and she seemed to be in ribbons the whole week about it. She was very accepting of the fact that, in her opinion, she had "ruined us", and begged for a chance to show me her true feelings. She's very full on, always in contact etc, before and since. We had a bit of a blow-out on sat night, because basically I just don't feel like I can trust her now. Her attitude on it is that she "deserves" any snidey comments or unreasonable demands on my part for the time being.

The crazy thing is that I genuinely think she loves me, really loves me. The sex is fantastic, the absolute "best either of us have ever had", and emotionally we are very mutually in-tune, supportive, and connect so well. Ordinarily she beams when we are in couple mode in public etc. I have her in stitches laughing all day, and we're very much in our own little bubble the whole time. I check out pretty girls, and she checks out hot guys; We've been very mature and accepting of this, and acknowledged that that's fine and healthy, and a good thing. I just don't do the staring thing.

So... I don't know what to do. I'm having genuine issues with seeing how we can go out again and how I'll be ok with her doing her own thing etc. She was drunk/had taken various substances at the time, and doesn't act this way when sober. I love her, I want to make it work, and while: No, She didn't f**k anyone, kiss anyone, or act in a hugely sneaky/flirtatious way behind my back; But she still betrayed my trust repeatedly and made me an upset sideline observer as she made eyes at a guy for hours on end, to the point that he picked up on it and started doing it back.

Any advice from anyone who has experience with this?

beks101

If she really loves you and cares about you as she says she does, she would be willing to knock the drink and 'other things' on the head, to crack down on this behaviour and give your relationship a real shot.

The Princess Bride

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

On nights out she can be fairly wild, and likes to drink (amongst other things)...........
in the cold light of day...............
she has ZERO attraction to the guy in question in sober mind.....
Ordinarily she beams when we are in couple mode in public etc.......
So... I don't know what to do.......
She was drunk/had taken various substances at the time, and doesn't act this way when sober.....

Any advice from anyone who has experience with this?

Not everybody who drinks alcohol behaves as you described.Perhaps she either drinks too much or shouldn't drink at all?
She seems genuinely shocked with how she'd behaved,which sounds like she wants to change.I'd suggest you both go out and drink a little less,if you love each other as much as you think,then the absence of drink won't be an issue at all.
Good luck.

Distorted

It must be very irritating. Speaking as a woman, most women I know aren't that obviously flirty, but there are a few, and tbh at times when its done really obviously, it can be cringemaking. I've never seen any of my female friends do it, but I have observed other women in clubs (including a couple of times doing the staring thing at my husband, who remained utterly oblivious!).

I don't know how she can say she doesn't know she is doing it. It must surely take some kind of deliberate effort to do. There are some people who will say what you want to here and blithely continue on their own sweet way. The fact she does it only when drunk gives me more sympathy for her but again, when drink is regularly affecting your behaviour to that level it becomes a problem too.

Chinafoot

Given her reaction to the video I would say that it is down to the alcohol. You said yourself she is insecure so this could be a factor too. I think it might be unfair to consider it a betrayal on a par with physical cheating and I don't think you should be giving her shít over it. She doesn't "deserve" any "snidey remarks". If you can't be around her without acting like a child out of your hurt then simply stay away until you calm down. Don't let your previous bad experience force you to completely overreact to this situation. She's sorry, she appeared genuinely shocked and appalled at her drunken behaviour. Either you can forgive her or you can't.

I think that you both need to have a frank discussion about how her level of drinking is having a detrimental effect on the relationship.

She needs to cut back massively and if you care about this girl and want your relationship to work you should do the same. You say you have the same attitude to drink that she currently does, so if you want her to cut back the drinking (and lets face it, that appears to be the biggest factor here) then you can't expect her to sit there while you're milling the drink into you and putting all sorts up your nose.

An honest and adult conversation needs to be had.

LegacyUser

Thanks guys, op here...

I concur with a lot of the points regarding excess etc., however my concern is that a greater underlying commitment/fidelity issue exists, as suggested by a poster above, and that drink/drugs are merely a catalyst for her true self to come to the fore. With all due respect to the problems that alcohol/drugs cause; I've probably overstated their role in this. She's not a mad alcoholic slut or anythin, and we are both regularly bemoaning our weekend habits, saying "I don't wanna do this same ***** every weekend" etc. Basically, sacrifice would not be a problem, and was the first gesture she offered. I want us to be able to have fun though,and not have our nights limited by our relationship issues...

She's making a conscious "effort" (although I've made the point to her that having to "make an effort" to begin with is totally counterintuitive to having a healthy, trusting relationship), to the point that she's now scared to even glance at guys, so much so that during shopping/night out at the weekend, I had to reassuringly tell her it was ok to look at/talk to guys when I saw her freeze up when my mate started talking to her...

She's not trying to cling to any moral ground or point of argument about the whole thing, and as I stated above, completely concedes fault, and is afraid that she has "ruined us". I really want to be cool about this, to either get over it or break up, and to not make remarks or keep bringing it up, but it's tough. I'm genuinely trying to take this relationship in isolation from my previous bad experiences too. I don't feel I have a sense of entitlement or a right to drag her through the mud over it, but I definitely seem to be exerting some degree of punishment for it, more unconsciously than anything (taking time apart etc).

She seems to be making all the right repentant noises, I'm just scared I'm gonna be a horrified onlooker again at the weekend when she lets her guard down...

Gyalist

I can't believe that you are blaming this woman for your paranoia. So she is flirty when drunk/stoned, so what? That you would go to the extreme of watching her interact with your group of friends and recording it on your phone says much more about you than about her.

It may not be your intent, but what you are doing is going to increase her general insecurities. What is this arbitrary distinction between a glance and a stare?

It seems to me that you have brought your issues from the last relationship into this one and that whatever substances you are ingesting is compunding the situation.

I am a friend

Op I have to agree that the reason for her staring and eyeing up men on a night out would be of concern to me... It must also be very embarrassing to you having your friends think your gf is eyeing them up.

Chances are she does have a wandering eye which shows itself when she is drunk but it doesn't mean she would act on it..

LegacyUser

@Gyalist: Did you read my post(s) in full??

Gyalist wrote: »

I can't believe that you are blaming this woman for your paranoia. So she is flirty when drunk/stoned, so what? That you would go to the extreme of watching her interact with your group of friends and recording it on your phone says much more about you than about her.

par·a·noi·a/ˌparəˈnoiə/
Noun:
Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.

Are you saying that my concerns are without evidence or justification, and unreasonable given the circumstances? Would you abide by your significant other staring at specific members of the opposite sex while in your company, for extended periods of time, on repeated occasions, and simply deem it "flirty"?

I don't consider my actions unreasonable given her denial/dismissal on the previous occasions I tried to raise the issue. I would have thought her reaction to seeing her actions on video would have granted me fairly weighty justification?

What is this arbitrary distinction between a glance and a stare?

I think I've fairly definitively differentiated between a glance and a stare in my previous posts; The former being what we've discussed as being perfectly normal, even healthy - The latter being what I have described her doing repeatedly, at the one person, for hours on end.

It seems to me that you have brought your issues from the last relationship into this one and that whatever substances you are ingesting is compunding the situation.

I think this is far too convenient a conclusion to reach, given the background I have provided. Where were my "paranoia issues" hiding for the first several months of my relationship until this unpleasantness reared its head? I was fine with leaving her to her own devices around men on nights out, that is before she started acting the maggot.

@I am Friend:

I guess that's what I'm banking on should I continue in this and invest myself in it; That she just needs male attention, perhaps related to her insecurities etc, but that she knows where her heart/bed is...

ibarelycare

Sounds to me like it could be a self-esteem issues on your gf's behalf. She may be trying to see if guys find her attractive by attempting to see if they'll reciprocate her flirty looks. I guess you don't want to risk it going further than that though.

Calming down the drinking a bit is probably the best bet. You both seem to love going out every weekend so just change your habits a bit. Instead of starting drinking at 8 or 9, leave it til 11 or 12 to have your first drink and maybe look at what you're drinking too.

LegacyUser

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

Any advice from anyone who has experience with this?

You need to ask yourself a few questions.
1. Why are with a girl you obviously flirts with other guys (as you see it)?
2. Why are with a girl who doesn't have a mind of her own, and will quite happily bend to your will rather then (quite rightly) say 'I haven't done anything wrong'.
3. Have you gotten over your previous relationship? Because it sounds to me that you're bringing some control issues with you from the last relationship (understandably enough).
4. Does your girlfriend act inappropiately in any other ways? Or has she said things that have raised your suspicion? Because if you're basing all this on just 'looks' she gives, I think you're on a slippery 'control freak' slope.

To be honest, if I was with a guy who was giving me reason to be suspicious either through his actions, or from what I've 'observed' (I put marks on observed because your past will always colour your observations!), then I really wouldn't see the relationship going anywhere (due to his actions, or due to my disbelief that I actually have something good going on!)


Best of luck sorting it out

parrai

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

Hi all,

I have an issue that has come to a head in my relationship. I am a 27 year old male, going out with a 22 year old female (casually) for the past year, but officially for the past 6 months. During this time we have dealt with some insecurity and trust issues, more from her direction than mine, these issues perhaps based on very minor seeds of doubt created by me early-on. I however did come out of a LT relationship 3 months before meeting her, with my general trust in women being affected by a fairly horrific cheating episode that caused the breakup.

I think this is the start of your problem. I think this has marked you more than you either know or acknowledge.

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

She is quite insecure in general, and has some strong self-image issues, that I have done my best to allay.

This is a problem for her I think, whilst you are helping her with it, it is hers to solve.

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

In the past 2 months I have noticed, while she is quite drunk(/amongst other things), that she begins to repeatedly stare at various guys in the group that we hang around in, almost fixatedly.

I think this is her trying to solve it. I know it's not easy to see but she is 'off her head' and as you probably know, it's not easy to be keeping track of oneself in this frame of mind. Plus the fact that you have both allowed 'checking the opposite sex out' could be sending mixed signals, in regards of literally just checking someone out. When she is 'stoned/drunk/whatever' time is not applicable as you are probably aware, so 5-10 seconds is nothing really in the circumstances.

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

I'll cop it as the night goes on (happened naturally before, nowadays Im looking for it)

I think this is your previous experience coming back to haunt you, (please don't think I'm being cruel, it's just an opinion)

I think that if she loves you and you said you think she does, let her grow.
She isn't going anywhere and she is only 22, not a time for a serious relationship, but a time to grow emotionally, personally and mentally.
She goes home with you, you are together when you go out, so there really shouldn't be a problem. I think this is provd by what you say next;

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

When I confronted her last weekend, she didn't accept it until I said that someone else had said something, and I showed her the video. She instantly burst in to tears and seemed genuinely to be in disbelief at her actions.

And

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

The confusing part of which being that she has ZERO attraction to the guy in question in sober mind.

This shouldn't be confusing, it's the truth, she isn't into him, it's just the insecurity/drugs/alcohol etc

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

I took some time away from her for last week to think, and she seemed to be in ribbons the whole week about it. She was very accepting of the fact that, in her opinion, she had "ruined us", and begged for a chance to show me her true feelings.

This is what will kill your good relationship, cause this can only happen so many times until she'll be hurt enough to not want it anymore.

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

She's very full on, always in contact etc, before and since. We had a bit of a blow-out on sat night, because basically I just don't feel like I can trust her now. Her attitude on it is that she "deserves" any snidey comments or unreasonable demands on my part for the time being.

This is not fair, and to be honest I think you know it too. She hasn't done anything really, you say so yourself, so why can't you trust her?

Red_hand_catcher wrote: »

The crazy thing is that I genuinely think she loves me, really loves me. The sex is fantastic, the absolute "best either of us have ever had", and emotionally we are very mutually in-tune, supportive, and connect so well. Ordinarily she beams when we are in couple mode in public etc. I have her in stitches laughing all day, and we're very much in our own little bubble the whole time. I check out pretty girls, and she checks out hot guys; We've been very mature and accepting of this, and acknowledged that that's fine and healthy, and a good thing. I just don't do the staring thing.

I think this is a bad idea for you. You are right it is healthy but all it is doing is sending up red flags, that will remind you of being cheated on.

I really hope this helps... She and you both sound like a good couple, but you are older, and possibly still suffering from 'horrific ending' to the last relationship. Let her breathe... I think you have nothing to worry about, right now, but unless you deal with the last relationships' ending, you could well destroy this one.

Please Kill Me

Gyalist wrote: »

So she is flirty when drunk/stoned, so what?

Seriously??? I can't believe you even ask that!! Flirting when you are in a relationship is wrong!! End of!!! If my fiancee was flirting with anyone, or I was flirting and she saw it - that's it, relationship over! Flirting is one step away from cheating!

@ OP, if she persists in this behaviour, get rid of her before she takes the next step and breaks your heart!

JayC5

Gyalist wrote: »

I can't believe that you are blaming this woman for your paranoia. So she is flirty when drunk/stoned, so what? That you would go to the extreme of watching her interact with your group of friends and recording it on your phone says much more about you than about her.

I call BS to your statement Gyalist! - I have went out with someone before that acted in the same manner, and to be honest it's disrespectful, hurtful and completely annoying. "Flirty and drunk when stoned" and you say so what? - if it was the other way around and the OP was up to these shenanigans I'm sure she'd pull him up about it! Or are you saying that flirting and extended bouts of staring are the preserve of every girl? If that's the case I'd prefer a lifetime of singledom. Someone who indulges in this type of activity is motivated by something, could be vanity i.e. she gets off on a response from the recipient of said stare. It could also be insecurity i.e. she needs this attention to feel resassured about her looks etc.

Either way it's immature and a pain in the ass when you are their significant other. In my experience it happened with strangers, the person in question would be in my company but would stare at a stranger until the stare was reciprocated. Thus, making me feeling like a fcking idiot standing there being semi-ignored. This was quite a regular occurrence I hasten to add, and when I pointed it out casually at a later stage she threw a strop and created huge drama.... Secondly, suffering the humiliation of this stranger knowing that the girl I'm with is staring at him whilst in my company...! So, I'm on the side of the OP, he's hardly hallucinating therefore there's some form of activity on her part that's causing him stress. You call it paranoia, again I call BS. Perhaps it's in his best interests to play it cool and all but he's only being honest and if she doesn't accept that well, send her packing.

As for the filming of the event: it's not something I would have done, but she must have been making a right scene if he filmed her and she didn't even notice. Again, I'd be embarassed at the present company seeing me filming her but that's another story and not for this thread. Before I continue I'd like to stress a point in case I'm misintrepreted: I don't expect or suggest people should go around blinkered or avoiding eye contact or anything of the sort. We all look at objects, people and destinations every second of our waking lives - it's how we navigate through the physical world. In terms of the OP's issue it seems that there's a termporal discrepancy between the simple act of just looking and staring. If it was some form of habit not specific to one subject then surely she'd be going around zoned out staring bug-eyed at walls, beer mats and signs on toilet doors. Alas, it's not the case - this little problem seems to be confined to members of the opposite sex. And yes, while I agree that alcohol and other mood altering substances can heighten sensitivity and make us react differently to scenarios than when sober, I don't think it's the case here. The OP is 27 and I assume a mature adult, if I were to be honest I'd say that it has a lot to do with her age - young girls, in my experience, can be quite fickle and prone to such attention seeking. A girl of a more mature vintage would have left all that sort of nonsense behind and know what she did and didn't want without all this sort of hassle. Just saying... and yes, not all girls are the same blah x3 but youth is youth and it's wasted on the young and all that

So, OP, in my opinion you are spot on to call her on this, she's being a spoilt b*tch and acting like a kid that doesn't know what candy bar she wants in the shop. If drinking causes her to act like a red light vixen then there's a simple solution: don't drink or tone it down, hardly that difficult. If, however, she continues with this behaviour send her on her merry way and she can stare at whatever tom, dick or harry tickles her fancy without causing you further embarassment. She'll soon realise that a relationship takes effort and there's a certain etiquette that exists that warrants success i.e. don't send out sexual vibes to other members of the opposite sex when you are supposed to be in a monogamous relationship, or at least not in the company of her partner. Because at the end of the day what is flirting? - in essence, a form of communication or message whether that be visual or verbal directed towards another individual and expressing sexual desire or acknowledgement, this could be body language, subtle comments etc. I'd interpret flirting (when said person is not single) as expressing interest whilst restrained by circumstance. Not particularly nice to observe when you are the flirter's other half. Dress it up whatever way you want but that's the bare bones of it folks

LegacyUser

OP here...

@JayC5:

TBH, I was fairly surprised myself at some of the responses in this thread; Is the social norm/status quo such that people should accept a girlfriend persistently staring at guys (not even just strangers, but mates), and being flirty??? Fook that. I, like you, have enough respect for myself that I know I don't need to put up with it. All of this however is very logical and theoretical, because when you temper this demand of respect with feelings of "Love" et al., it becomes a muddier issue...

@Parrai

You have provided a very well thought out, and obviously experience-rich breakdown of the key issues at play, and potential causes leading to various effects. I have read it a couple of times... However I still think that fallout effect of my "past" is being overstated here. I will make the point to you, as I did to Gyalist (less contemptuously, of course) that I was fine before this all came up. She was out solo on nights out with the girls, separated in other rooms at parties etc. for long periods, amongst male company; one to one or otherwise; and I was fine with all of that. Not now however. I think it's all too convenient an amateur psychology diagnosis to label me a paranoid case of damaged goods (not your words, I know). I'm sensitive re: cheating, but I didn't lose my eyesight/reason in my last breakup...

I have justifiable, proven cause to be edgy about this. Cause that she fully acknowledges and apologises for. Sure, the video was one of my crazier moments, but I felt backed into a corner, and wanted to have undeniable proof of my claim in preparation for her repeat denial/dismissal.


The drinking/drugging thing, while being a generally important thing to keep an eye on, isn't in my opinion something that will make a difference here. TBH in a way it kind of facilitated me getting a proper look at what was/is(?) going on inside her head while her guard was down. It might just be the truth serum the situation needs, and then I'll know what to do. God knows I don't want to be in a situation for 6 months where she goes teetotal, thus being in "control", when all she wants to do is look at guys, but knows I'll notice. How does that situation end up? Ultimately though for sanity purposes, it probably needs to be curtailed.


Pretty much everything surrounding this issue has been covered. Thanks again Parrai for your post. Feel free anyone to respond, but I'll wrap my involvement up as neurotic analysis should only last so long, and I need to sh*t or get off the pot as far as committing and getting over this goes. I hope it's just an esteem issue that she grows out of/improves upon, and not a case of a selfish young girl who is insatiable, regardless of all the great qualities of our relationship.

Thanks

Taltos

As the OP has stepped away we are closing this thread.
OP - if something changes and you want it re-opened please PM one of the Mods.

Taltos