you either have it or you dont have it

Radioad

I thought I'd put this one out there. . .

Recently I was in a pub watching some musicans (since I play acoustic myself I was pretty much glued to the music) and the guys playing the music were all aged between 40 - 60 and were really good.

One of my mates in the group stated "you either have it or you dont have it" bearing in mind this particular person hasnt the foggiest idea about one end of a scale to the other or anything about music at all in fact. . .

since I dont have a "natural" ability to play - I have been playing for about 8 years and at this stage am a reasonable play guitar at home type person. . .

I have spend countless hours practising, reading, watching, some lessons to get to the stage I have. . . loved every minute of it. . . I also learned how to sing too and built a much stronger voice with about a 3 octave range. . .

I never claimed to "have it" - I always enjoyed listening to music and eventually started playing music. . . .

What is all you're thoughts on this area. . .

stevood

With enough practice I think one day it will click and you will have it. You do need a brain tho if you not a natural

lazernuts

I think you either have a real interest in it or not. No-one's got an innate ability to play an instrument.

I've tried to teach some people, but you could tell the interest wasn't there, so they gave up. But if they did have a genuine interest, there would be nothing stopping them learning through practice etc, and getting to an acceptable level.

But then there are varying degrees of proficiency that people can reach, and seem to not be able to progress beyond that.

For instance, i've been playing 20 years, and even though i can do fast soloing, i can't do Steve Vai type lethal fast soloing.(not that i really want to)

deaddonkey

Even the greatest and most talented musicians are nothing without countless hours of practice and work.

Rigsby

Interesting topic. It is significant that the age group of the people you were watching were on the more "mature" side. To become really proficient on a musical instrument can take half a life time of hard graft, patience and practice. Many seasoned pros have said that you never stop learning. If the truth be known, those guys were probably playing since their early teens. There are also the "naturals," who seem to reach this stage in a comparatively short time, but even they need to put in a fair amount of time perfecting their talent.

IMO, comparing your playing standard to others is only a recipe for frustration. Sure, by all means learn from them. Do your best to be as good as possible, but music is a form of self expression. IMO it is more important to enjoy playing and to progress at your own pace. There are no short cuts to "having it."

Plazaman

Being a great musician isn't really enough. You could be the best guitarist in the world but if you play a 10 - 12 song set without engaging the audience, then they'll lose interest no matter how good you are. Every solo musician / band needs to be or have a frontman, to have a bit of banter and fun with the audience, a bit of showmanship. Again skills learned with time and usually you'll see why older musicians with experience relax into shows and have more fun.

Rigsby

Plazaman wrote: »

Every solo musician / band needs to be or have a frontman, to have a bit of banter and fun with the audience, a bit of showmanship.

I agree to an extent, but it is not necessarily the case. The iconic trumpeter Miles Davis played to packed audiences through out the world....with his back to the audience, and was not known for his banter. In fact when I saw him live, he did not utter a word for the entire concert. His message was that the music can speak for itself.

"Van the Man" is another case in point.

Malice

You either have or don't have what exactly? The ability to play an instrument? The ability to play an instrument on stage in front of people? All of the above?

Radioad

Hi Malice

you either have talent & natural ability or you dont have talent and natural ability to play and instrument. .

Thanks,
Clive.

Esy

I actually agree with your mate. Some people have natural ability and some don't. That's not to say that loads of practice can't make someone without natural ability into a top class guitarist, but you can tell the difference when someone just has it in them. Think of the difference between Steven Gerrard and, say, Ronaldo. Both at the top of their profession but you can tell Ronaldo just has that little something extra that Gerrard, no matter how many hours he puts in on the training pitch, will never have.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Playing fast on the guitar just seems robotic, to me. And as such, I never really tried to do it. My love is for chord voicings, melody and time signatures. That is what I try to focus on when I compose/practice. I guess my rambling point is that just because you don't play flash, doesn't mean you have no talent. Shredding on a guitar is fairly superficial (imo), I don't see the appeal.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Playing fast on the guitar just seems robotic, to me. And as such, I never really tried to do it.

+ 1

thats why i love the likes of Rory Gallagher and SRV. Yes they did play fast, but not "for the sake of it" there guitar style is more about expression than speed. Rory's cover of "as the crow flies" gave me shivers down my spine when i first heard it, and still does!

Radioad

yea but I'm talking about natural talent. . . .

What is natural talent, is it years of hard graft on the guitar? Does a natural have to practise as much? Compared to person who wasnt born with a natural ability. .

any naturals out there that want to give their thoughts on it?

I love playing guitar - I often wondered - how would it be different if I was born with a natural ability. . .

i didnt start to play it until I was 23. . . Is this a late starter as opposed to someone who picks up the guitar at 13 or 14. . . I'm now 33 so I guesss If I had another 10 years of playing under my belt, would I be twice as good as I am now. . .

all comments / feedback greatly appreciated. . . I want to get a broad view of peoples opinions. . . .

Grolschevik

I knew a fellow who just didn't have a natural feel to his playing (yeah, I know, whatever that means!). He could sight read, play technically very well, but there seemed to be something missing -- for example, when jamming and/or improvising, his playing was stiff and his note choice was not intuitive. A good example would be his vibrato -- it just wasn't "musical" (yeah, yeah etc...).

(Someone told me that he was actually "tone deaf"; not sure if that's an issue, or even a real thing...)

Is this what the OP's mate might have meant?

Rigsby

Radioad wrote: »

yea but I'm talking about natural talent. . . .

What is natural talent, is it years of hard graft on the guitar? Does a natural have to practise as much? Compared to person who wasnt born with a natural ability. .

any naturals out there that want to give their thoughts on it?

I love playing guitar - I often wondered - how would it be different if I was born with a natural ability. . .

i didnt start to play it until I was 23. . . Is this a late starter as opposed to someone who picks up the guitar at 13 or 14. . . I'm now 33 so I guesss If I had another 10 years of playing under my belt, would I be twice as good as I am now. . .

all comments / feedback greatly appreciated. . . I want to get a broad view of peoples opinions. . . .

I think natural talent is like a rough diamond. It needs work and attention. This could involve practicing alone, but more often there is a mentor involved in one way or another. Just like a budding child footballer needs coaching to bring out his natural talent. As for age, I think the younger a person starts the better, as generally you learn faster and adapt better when you are young. On the other hand an older person might have more patience with learning than a younger one. My main point is that while being a "natural" is an asset, it still needs to be honed.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Radioad wrote: »

yea but I'm talking about natural talent. . . .

What is natural talent, is it years of hard graft on the guitar? Does a natural have to practise as much? Compared to person who wasnt born with a natural ability. .

any naturals out there that want to give their thoughts on it?

I love playing guitar - I often wondered - how would it be different if I was born with a natural ability. . .

i didnt start to play it until I was 23. . . Is this a late starter as opposed to someone who picks up the guitar at 13 or 14. . . I'm now 33 so I guesss If I had another 10 years of playing under my belt, would I be twice as good as I am now. . .

all comments / feedback greatly appreciated. . . I want to get a broad view of peoples opinions. . . .

As Edison put it. Genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

No amount of natural ability beats hard work. Even the likes of Einstein, Nash, Newton had to dedicate their entire lives to their work, despite their genius.

The same applies to guitar playing. It helps to be a musical genius, but you still have to work hard.

It's really that simple.

Seziertisch

Music is everywhere, originality isn't. What makes the greats great is that they sound like themselves, regardless of whether or not they are very technically proficient.

jus_tin4

talent is in every form of life. the people that excel in life are the people who may not have had the most talent but worked their asses of to become talented. no body knws the work you do behind closed doors.

the_syco

Rigsby wrote: »

I think natural talent is like a rough diamond. It needs work and attention. This could involve practicing alone, but more often there is a mentor involved in one way or another. Just like a budding child footballer needs coaching to bring out his natural talent. As for age, I think the younger a person starts the better, as generally you learn faster and adapt better when you are young. On the other hand an older person might have more patience with learning than a younger one. My main point is that while being a "natural" is an asset, it still needs to be honed.

Agreed 100% esp the bit about playing football. If not honed, you may be always the person picked for the football team, but not the one to get paid to play.

=-=

Look at Freestyle Motocross (FMX). New tricks are constantly made up, pushing what they do to new limits. I'm sure there are naturals there, but without a lot of hard work at home and constantly improving how they do it, and taking in what the competition does, they'll be left behind, or die trying.

Likewise with playing an instrument; being good is nothing without practise.

Radioad wrote: »

i didnt start to play it until I was 23. . . Is this a late starter as opposed to someone who picks up the guitar at 13 or 14. . . I'm now 33 so I guesss If I had another 10 years of playing under my belt, would I be twice as good as I am now. . .

Look at it from a different angle: if you started 10 years ago, would you have stuck with it if you didn't "get it" straight away? Would you have then forgotten about it and never touched it a guitar again? Would you have had as much patience and/or dedication as you do now back then?

IMO, age doesn't matter as it may in sports. In football you play until are no longer scoring goals, and then you stop. In music, unless you broke both arms, you could probably play some instrument until the day you died.

=-=

One thing I will say is: you need to know your audience. Tearing out black metal tunes to a pack of Brittney Spears fans may go over their heads, and they'll think you're ****e. Play it to a room of metallers, and they may worship you.

A bit of an extreme example, but unless you play to the right people, they may not see any natural talent. Personally, if Mozart played the piano in front of me I'd probably think he was sh|te and leave. A few people here would probably be enthralled by his performance and listen to his entire set, seeing him as a "natural"?

raindog.promo

"I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was.
Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me."
- Abe Simpson

Sergio

Very interesting thread and i agree with some points made by some of the folk here.
I think the biggest thing that sticks out from what youve said as the thread opener is that you have a passion for music and the guitar.Thats half the battle and the fact you said you enjoy every minute of learning it tells me that you do have talent and my only advice would be to keep doing what your doing.
Regarding watching certain bands and musicians its all depends on the people in the band and the chemistry.Some bands ive seen are absolute shocking and have no clue in how to connect with the audience at all.
Some bands then are amazing as musicians and entertainers and thats when some people just have it like you said but i think this can be acquired as a skill which like everything else can be learned with enough practice.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Colinboy wrote: »

Very interesting thread and i agree with some points made by some of the folk here.
I think the biggest thing that sticks out from what youve said as the thread opener is that you have a passion for music and the guitar.Thats half the battle and the fact you said you enjoy every minute of learning it tells me that you do have talent and my only advice would be to keep doing what your doing.
Regarding watching certain bands and musicians its all depends on the people in the band and the chemistry.Some bands ive seen are absolute shocking and have no clue in how to connect with the audience at all.
Some bands then are amazing as musicians and entertainers and thats when some people just have it like you said but i think this can be acquired as a skill which like everything else can be learned with enough practice.

Connecting with the audience.

I never quite got that, because I believe that bands who try to do it just come off looking contrived. I honestly believe that if you playing 'from your effing heart' you will connect with those in the audience who give a damn.

The rest aren't worth worrying about.

Gmol

Played with very talented people, I wasn't but made up for it by playing the e chord on my knees and it looked good. They replaced me with serious players but lost the feels and broke up . They were pretty damn good and could have made it but I think they lost the bs!!

Gmol

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Connecting with the audience.

I never quite got that, because I believe that bands who try to do it just come off looking contrived. I honestly believe that if you playing 'from your effing heart' you will connect with those in the audience who give a damn.

The rest aren't worth worrying about.

Nope you're completely wrong, you're thinking about playing to musos rather than the public, big difference.

Nervous Wreck

Thread is almost 5 years old. Closed.