Rebuild or Refurb

Madisonmenece

Hello All

First of all sorry if allot of things in this post have been answered elsewhere.

I am considering refurbishing and extending an old farm house which has been in our family since I guess the late 1800's. The house was being lived in until 2 years ago but will require a fair bit of work to get up to spec, which will more or less leave four 2' stone Walls behind.

I should point out the groundworks,masonry, partition walls, and painting/decorating  will be undertaken by myself and my father along with a most of the graft work, I have a family member who will undertake the plumbing/heating work. The roofing, electrics, external plastering and windows will be contracted out.

The extension will be approx 70m2 over two floors which will also involve removing an old extension which was built using breeze block many years ago

would it be financially beneficial to knock and rebuild from new plans considering the below listed will be required on top of the extension for a refurb.

- Breathable insulation and membrane on internal of the stone walls
- lime render the exterior of the stone walls
- install a French trench around the stone walls
- install a new roof 
- install new floors
- install/upgrade windows and doors to double/triple glazing 
- install heating system.
- rewiring entire house
- New stair case, partition walls, kitchen, bathroom.

Which ever route we go down I will engage an architect , but I will undertake the project management as it is what I do for living In the UK  I will however be moved back to Ireland by the time the project starts.

Has anyone undertaken a similar project either refurb or rebuild and what would you do different, did you have issues with planning ect.... I will be inspecting the property again this week and will produce material/construction cost for each scenario and go about obtaining some quotes.

Also since I have been working in the UK before the boom died out what are people's preferences regarding procurement of building materials on recent projects have you found it cheaper to source local, import, purchase seconds/cosmetic rejects.

I am aware the cost of building a house depends on various things such as location, quality of finishing but what would be a rough guide cost per m2 for a good finish taking into account we are undertaking a lot of the work ourselves. The property is in west cork.

Your feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Col

BryanF

Madisonmenece wrote: »

...
would it be financially beneficial to knock and rebuild from new plans considering the below listed will be required on top of the extension for a refurbish. .........

from a cost basis if you look at the Bruce Shaw 2011 index, you will note that low end quoted figures suggest that rebuild is more expensive. imo this will all come down to the dwelling condition and depends a lot on you and your 'free' labour input:)
what your question should be asking though is - 'will Cork County council allow me to demolish and re-build? I would suggest that's an answer you'll get once you do the following:

1. have a conversation/ pre-planning meeting with the LA
2. do your sums (weighed up the costs) + contingency
3. consider the environmental/conservation impact of demolishing versus refurbishment

Madisonmenece wrote: »

Also since I have been working in the UK before the boom died out what are people's preferences regarding procurement of building materials on recent projects have you found it cheaper to source local, import, purchase seconds/cosmetic rejects.

it depends on what materials your talking about. I know of a least one lime/traditional building providers and a hemp lime expert in west cork/Kerry.. west cork & cork city has several builder providers, probably the largest Irish window company, an architectural salvage yard and a good second-hand network, but you need to put in the leg-work or www. searches. there's also several good building firms at the passive house standard and several specialist builders/ trades dealing in lime and traditional methods.
things are not always cheaper but there are good deals to be done.

Madisonmenece wrote: »

I am aware the cost of building a house depends on various things such as location, quality of finishing but what would be a rough guide cost per m2 for a good finish taking into account we are undertaking a lot of the work ourselves. The property is in west cork.

builds are from a ridiculously low (imho builder bankruptcy) 650€ msq to 1500€ to infinity.. it depends on size (bigger is generally lower msq cost), competency/frugality of client (not loosing reality helps to:)), standard of build/finishes (not forgetting current B'regs or the endeavour towards passive house/zero carbon standards) and the site location/access/ slopes/ general condition etc..

look at the http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056137974
also see p26 & 31 http://www.bruceshaw.com/communicraft-cms-system/uploads/BS-handbook-2011.pdf
and here's one done 'up the country' http://www.constructireland.ie/Articles/Passive-Housing/19th-century-ruin-renovated-with-passive-house-aims.html

beyondpassive

Frank Cooney renovated an old farmhouse in CAvan which is shown in the Passivhaus refurbishment guidelines www.seai.ie/Publications/.../Passive_House_Retrofit_Guidelines.pdf

It's very important in a renovation to ensure that moisture and condensation are dealt with and surface temperature inside are above comfort levels.

The issue with bringing an old farmhouse up to our current expectations of thermal comfort are:

Foundations arnt deep enough to get sufficient insulation under the slab.
External insulation alters the proportion of the openings in solid area.
Insulating the building internally isn't an option.

Renovating is generally 60% of new build, though with a higher performance building this could be 80%, it is possible just to keep 2 external walls and build the rest as a new structure and still have a 'renovation and extension, but your getting into semantic arguments of what constitutes new build v renovation in planning terms.

Madisonmenece

Brian F

Thank you for your reply and the information supplied

I agree 100% planning will ultimately decide which route I go down, saying that if a replacement dwelling is not permitted we could always look into a new build, at another location on the land.


Beyondpassive

Thank you for your comments, I know very little about passive insulation but it has popped up several times since I started looking into the refurbishment. for some reason its not something I am drawn too, however that may have something to do with my lack of knowldge on the subject.


Thanks
Col