Help - Tenant Anti-Social Behaviour

darrend32

Hi,

Looking for some advice!

I have rented my 2-bed apartment to a tenant who is receiving social welfare assistance to pay the rent. Month rent and deposit paid up front, but rent now over a month late due to delays in social welfare process. Tenant has not been great at communicating this, but she has told me that the social welfare has confirmed that outstanind rent and this months rent will be paid on Thursday...

In the meantime, the management company of the apartment complex phoned me on Saturday to say that a serious incident had occurred at the complex, when a guest of my tenant(she was having a late-night party) smashed the window of the neighbour's house. Garda were called etc. I am still trying to establish exactly what happened. The management company want me to remove tenant.

So completely unsure what to do, I have 2 months rent due on Thursday - do I wait for that before doing anything? How difficult is it going to be to remove tenant? Am I liable for damages caused by some thug? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Kosseegan

You are not going to get any money on Tuesday, the tenant is bull****ting you. Issue her with a written notice warning her that there is a complaint about her guest breaking a window. State in the notice that you will terminate her tenancy if it continues. Also issue her with a rent arrears notice. Serve both in accordance with the procedures in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. After that you can think about issuing a termination notice if either the rent is not paid within 14 days or the behaviour is repeated.

athtrasna

Technically you are responsible for ensuring that your tenant complies with the development rules, and depending on your MC, they could start proceedings against you immediately as you are the one in breach of your lease with the MC. The directors of the Management Company are charged with acting in the best interest of all owners, and could seek immediate removal of the tenant, which would leave you out of pocket.

edellc

Kosseegan wrote: »

You are not going to get any money on Tuesday, the tenant is bull****ting you. Issue her with a written notice warning her that there is a complaint about her guest breaking a window. State in the notice that you will terminate her tenancy if it continues. Also issue her with a rent arrears notice. Serve both in accordance with the procedures in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. After that you can think about issuing a termination notice if either the rent is not paid within 14 days or the behaviour is repeated.

Rent allowance is paid into the post office on the last Thursday of the month in the Dublin south area not sure about the rest of Dublin or the rest of Ireland so no she is not bull****ting you on that front

I would go see her on Thursday to collect the rent and let her know that a complaint has been made about her and the incident that occurred.

Unfortunately we are not responsible for others bad behaviour and her guest should have had respect for her friend and the surroundings she was in but with alcohol involved this normally fails to happen

Give your tenant a chance the rent was paid up front and full deposit paid even though she is on RA please dont judge her like the poster above because she finds herself on hard times lots of people find themselves in receipt of RA due to loss of jobs and its the only way to keep a roof over their heads, so go with an open mind....If however she fails to hand over the rent on Thursday but all means issue her with a rent arrears notice and notice to terminate contract.

athtrasna

edellc wrote: »

Give your tenant a chance the rent was paid up front and full deposit paid even though she is on RA please dont judge her like the poster above because she finds herself on hard times lots of people find themselves in receipt of RA due to loss of jobs and its the only way to keep a roof over their heads, so go with an open mind....If however she fails to hand over the rent on Thursday but all means issue her with a rent arrears notice and notice to terminate contract.

I am not judging the tenant. I am speaking as a director of our management company where we have HAD to crack down on landlords of anti-social tenants immediately to protect all of our investments. The fact that the tenant is on RA is irrelevant, the fact that she was the cause of serious antisocial behaviour and damage to the property of another owner, is enough for the MC to act in the common interest.

Ray Palmer

One instance of anti-social behaviour is not enough to insist on the tenant being removed. As it was not even the tenant this makes it more so the case.

Contact the HSE and check that the tenant is due the rent. Unless she was previously on RA or on the housing list she is not going to be getting RA. It takes 6 months to be able to apply for RA otherwise. There are ways around it but that is the rule .

Did you fill out any forms?

edellc

athtrasna wrote: »

I am not judging the tenant. I am speaking as a director of our management company where we have HAD to crack down on landlords of anti-social tenants immediately to protect all of our investments. The fact that the tenant is on RA is irrelevant, the fact that she was the cause of serious antisocial behaviour and damage to the property of another owner, is enough for the MC to act in the common interest.

Im mocking the post not the poster to make it clear...........but a management company that actually does something other than take money LMFAO, clearly as a director you may have the right ideas but the minions of management companies very rarely carry them out

Also one incident is not enough to kick a tenant out, and your bully boy tactics regarding issuing this that and the other without consulting the tenant is yet another example of the heartlessness that the celtic tiger bore, yes the laws are there for a reason but such hard tactics on the first occasion which wasn't even caused by the tenant is ott

Why don't people talk to one another anymore everyone seems so quick to turn on the heavy handed stuff without conversation...sigh...too much american tv me thinks

director of the management company get over yourself and come back to earth where ppl are ppl and we talk first then threaten law second

athtrasna

edellc wrote: »

Im mocking the post not the poster to make it clear...........but a management company that actually does something other than take money LMFAO, clearly as a director you may have the right ideas but the minions of management companies very rarely carry them out

Also one incident is not enough to kick a tenant out, and your bully boy tactics regarding issuing this that and the other without consulting the tenant is yet another example of the heartlessness that the celtic tiger bore, yes the laws are there for a reason but such hard tactics on the first occasion which wasn't even caused by the tenant is ott

Why don't people talk to one another anymore everyone seems so quick to turn on the heavy handed stuff without conversation...sigh...too much american tv me thinks

director of the management company get over yourself and come back to earth where ppl are ppl and we talk first then threaten law second

I'm not sure you understand that the directors are owners? We are not employees, we have a management agent who runs the place from day to day (including fee collection) but we have the legal responsibility (the management company is the legal entity comprising all owners in the development).

The incident in question involved tenants who moved in that were "known to the Gardai". A knife was pulled on a visitor in the car park. Did you seriously expect us to give them a second chance? The landlord didn't care because his rent was getting paid, so we had to act to make the place safer for all other residents.

Now can you tell me how that's not acting in the best interests of people? Talking is well and good, but when you can't live safely in your own development, yes you do go straight to the law :mad:

edellc

athtrasna wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand that the directors are owners? We are not employees, we have a management agent who runs the place from day to day (including fee collection) but we have the legal responsibility (the management company is the legal entity comprising all owners in the development).

The incident in question involved tenants who moved in that were "known to the Gardai". A knife was pulled on a visitor in the car park. Did you seriously expect us to give them a second chance? The landlord didn't care because his rent was getting paid, so we had to act to make the place safer for all other residents.

Now can you tell me how that's not acting in the best interests of people? Talking is well and good, but when you can't live safely in your own development, yes you do go straight to the law :mad:

Dont be so patronising obviously directors own companies :rolleyes: and as I said your intentions may be just but many minions fail to carry out their duties as described maybe not yours but plenty of management companies behave in such a manner

As for the tenant being known to gardai and knives being produced NOWHERE in the op post is this mentions so I can only presume that this is private info that was shared by pm with you and you have now made known to all

If the op wanted that surely the op would have posted this info so to make it common knowledge and then try justify yourself as being honourable by saying that your acting in the best interest of people well I dont think your acting in the best interest of the OP

Clearly the OP was seeking options on a situation without the full story being posted which is allowed but you posting information for the op is just disgraceful

athtrasna

edellc wrote: »

Dont be so patronising obviously directors own companies :rolleyes: and as I said your intentions may be just but many minions fail to carry out their duties as described maybe not yours but plenty of management companies behave in such a manner

As for the tenant being known to gardai and knives being produced NOWHERE in the op post is this mentions so I can only presume that this is private info that was shared by pm with you and you have now made known to all

If the op wanted that surely the op would have posted this info so to make it common knowledge and then try justify yourself as being honourable by saying that your acting in the best interest of people well I dont think your acting in the best interest of the OP

Clearly the OP was seeking options on a situation without the full story being posted which is allowed but you posting information for the op is just disgraceful

Firstly I was referring to our situation, not the OPs. Your previous post attacked my post that the MC can take action against a landlord. I was clarifying that there is a time when it is necessary.

I was not being patronising about the directorship and I think you still don't understand. In a multi unit development, everyone who buys a unit is a member of the management company. The management company owns the common areas and apartment blocks, and the purchasers actually get long leases, usually about 1000 years. The owners elect directors at the AGMs to oversee the running of the development and to act in the best interest of all owners. We have five in our development. We are all volunteers and spend hundreds of hours every year working to ensure that our development is well run and a pleasant place to live, part of achieving this is taking any anti social behaviour incidents very seriously.

99% of Management Companies hire Management Agencies eg X Property Management. The agencies collect fees, hire contractors, and deal with day to day issues. It looks like you think I am involved in a management agency which is not the case.

Nowhere did I suggest the knife incident took place in the OP's development. The example was given in response to your comment about people needing to talk and not be high handed.

Grolschevik

Lads, I think there's a bit of miscommunication here.

From my reading, I think that Edelic's first response was really addressing arguments made by Kosseegan. Yep, see the quote in post 4.

Similarly, Athtrasna has similar experience of anti-social behaviour as in the OP, and it was in Athtrasna's case that the knife was pulled, not in the OP. So no PMs necessary there...

Athtrasna was simply stating that, based on his/her experience, it might be necessary for the management company to act in certain cases of antisocial behaviour.

darrend32

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the helpful advice.

At this point, I am sitting tight waiting to see will rent be paid. I am waiting to hear back from Management Company in relation to the parties and vandalism - I guess if they want me to remove tenant they will have to inform me in writing. I want to give the tenant the benefit of the doubt but smashing the next door neighbour's patio window is ridiculous and I feel so guilty about the whole situation. However, I am also concerned about the difficulties involved in removing a tenant - I believe it is not a straightforward process.

Underneath all of this is the frustration that I have, like many people, had to move from my own property to a rented accommodation as I was unable to afford the interest rate hikes on the mortgage. Nightmare!

Ray Palmer

darrend32 wrote: »

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the helpful advice.

At this point, I am sitting tight waiting to see will rent be paid. I am waiting to hear back from Management Company in relation to the parties and vandalism - I guess if they want me to remove tenant they will have to inform me in writing. I want to give the tenant the benefit of the doubt but smashing the next door neighbour's patio window is ridiculous and I feel so guilty about the whole situation. However, I am also concerned about the difficulties involved in removing a tenant - I believe it is not a straightforward process.

Underneath all of this is the frustration that I have, like many people, had to move from my own property to a rented accommodation as I was unable to afford the interest rate hikes on the mortgage. Nightmare!

DO NOT JUST WAIT to see if the rent will be paid. Check it out first thing in the morning. You are putting your finacial life in major risk. Do you have any idea how much damage somebody can do to your place along with how they can just not pay you any rent. You are in an extremely risky situation

darrend32

Thanks,

To reply to your original post, I have completed all necessary forms at the start of the lease(which was late August). Tenant then said proof of ownership was also required which was submitted by tenant to HSE on Monday - they have told her rent plus rent owed will be paid on Thursday - I meant that I would wait on this being paid before dealing with the anti-social behaviour.

I absoloutley get the risky situation I'm in, as my mortgage is not being paid and I am dealing with a difficult tenant - however have you tried ringing the HSE?? They are impossible to get either on the telephone or by email and i have been told they wont give out information on individual cases anyway.

Again - thanks for the input.

nibtrix

darrend32 wrote: »

I want to give the tenant the benefit of the doubt but smashing the next door neighbour's patio window is ridiculous and I feel so guilty about the whole situation.

Has the tenant, or their friend, paid for the smashed window to be replaced? Presumably if there is proof that they smashed it (witnesses, cctv) then they are liable to pay for it? Are the management company chasing for payment of the repairs?

If there's no proof they did it then you would find it very hard to evict them, wouldn't you?

Victor

edellc wrote: »

director of the management company get over yourself and come back to earth where ppl are ppl and we talk first then threaten law second

You might ease off a bit in your comments.