The acceptable face of violence?

steddyeddy

Just getting the general views on the use of violence to achieve aims. Is it ever justified or is it always wrong. Looking around boards you can see a range of plarised opinions on the subject of violence. Im thinking about Nelson mandela, the ira and any other groups who used violence to achieve their aims.

To give my opinion I have volunteered in places in africa were endangered species were regulalry poached and I can say a lot of paochers were killed while trying to kill gorillas for example. I didnt like the fact that it was done but no other method worked. So can I ask the question here is there certain situations in which violence is justified or is it always wrong. I think personally it comes down to the methods used.

Dudess

Proportionate self defence.

steddyeddy

Ill clarify my postion on the campaigns of nelson mandela and the ira. I think some violence was understandle but not a bombing campaign as bombing is indiscriminate and certainly doesnt minmise deaths.

Sauve

While I don't agree with violence, sadly I think it is often necessary.
With all our high and mighty ideas about being a civilised race, at the end of the day we're all just animals and regularly show it.

michael999999

I suppose when british soldiers are shooting innocent people, and terrorising them because they simply play GAA some people have no choice.

I heard Joe Kirnan Armaghs old manager on Newstalks Off the Ball Thursday night. Said when he was a teenager british soldiers dragged him at gunpoint out of hes car, made him sit on a bridge facing the water.

They had him sit there for 10 mins with hes eyes closed, he was convinsed they were going to push him off and make it look like suicide, only a man pulled up in a car and asked what is going on.

All this because when they stopped the car they seen hes GAA bag on the back seat.

As he said himself, no one in the south can judge because no one down here will ever know the misery they were put through, simply for being Catholic.

leonidas83

Yes it is justifiable but a question like this would never have even been mentioned more than a hundred years ago, I think nowadays people are so caught up in being politically correct, they have lost sight of the type of hardships and fights our ancestors had to go through. Of course it is justifiable in certain circumstances

Dudess

I think people are so caught up in obsessing about the world becoming politically correct, when it isn't really, and often the term is being misused.

stovelid

Being a blanket supporter or opponent of violence in any sphere of life is simplistic. Each situation is different but obviously the taking of innocent life is wrong.

steddyeddy

michael999999 wrote: »

I suppose when british soldiers are shooting innocent people, and terrorising them because they simply play GAA some people have no choice.

I heard Joe Kirnan Armaghs old manager on Newstalks Off the Ball Thursday night. Said when he was a teenager british soldiers dragged him at gunpoint out of hes car, made him sit on a bridge facing the water.

They had him sit there for 10 mins with hes eyes closed, he was convinsed they were going to push him off and make it look like suicide, only a man pulled up in a car and asked what is going on.

All this because when they stopped the car they seen hes GAA bag on the back seat.

As he said himself, no one in the south can judge because no one down here will ever know the misery they were put through, simply for being Catholic.

I would agree with that to an extent. Thats why I used the example of the north.

Kasabian

For me the acceptable level of violence required is the level needed to end the suffering of the defenceless, persecuted and those whose lives are demeaned less worthy by a stronger force. This is scaleable in my opinion.

michael999999

Kasabian wrote: »

For me the acceptable level of violence required is the level needed to end the suffering of the defenceless, persecuted and those whose lives are demeaned less worthy by a stronger force. This is scaleable in my opinion.

Northern Ireland in a paragraph!

Kasabian

michael999999 wrote: »

Northern Ireland in a paragraph!

Could also be the breaking of the jaw of the bloke who has been bullying your little brother for no other reason than he thought he would get away wth it.

Scalability.

deisedave

Violence is just a part of life People can say we are a civil society all they want, Violence is just part of life. Not a nice part but still essential.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3SzIlrU_6k

One of the best quotes on violence I've ever heard.

talkinyite

Well if someone was to start on you, you'd hardly curl up into a ball and let yourself get kicked around would ye?

celticcrash

Suicide bomber with finger on trigger on bus, 1: Excuse me could you not do
That here.2: Fire extinguisher to the back of his skull.
Me thinks no 2

Sunnyisland

The question of when violence is justified has intrigued and baffled people for years,IMO Violence is certainly justified in some cases.And of course there are a hundred different forms of violence,From parents hitting children to suicide bombers,I think most people are glad that there decisions in life don't have to give them orders with real consequences in real time with real people which will lead to agony & death for others,But we have always lived in a very unequal and unjust world and i cant see that changing and people will when pushed use violence to achive there Aims.

orourkeda

Kicking junkies is perfectly acceptable.

HavingCrack

If violence wasn't used against Japan and Germany in WW2 most of Europe and Asia could still be occupied today. Sometimes you have no choice but to fight back. Violence should always be the very last resort however, certainly not the first. I do oppose bombing campaigns full stop however and do not think they can ever be justified.

LighterGuy

Is certain violence acceptable? yes. and its not just "in self-defense" (which is a given) But we're talking about people here. There are assholes and scum in this world.

Like someone can do something that deserves you to fight them. Theres lines you dont cross like. But yet, people do every day. The average person doesnt want to fight, and rightfully so, but you have to in certain situations.

Mickeroo

Depending on the situation, I think violence is entirely justifiable.

AudreyHepburn

For me violence is never justifiable and that fact that so many think it is makes me worry for society.

I do think though that sometimes it is easy to see why violence occurred. For instance recently my cousin told be about a talk she'd been by a man who'd almost joined the IRA at the height of the Troubles. He considered it after watching soldiers come into his home and break his mother's knees.

I do not and never will condone the IRA, they are terrorists. But I can understand why so many young men were driven to join.

So not justifiable but in some cases understandable.

MungBean

Violence is justifiable in certain cases but not murder. The OP is rather confusing. If I vote yes do you assume I agree with murdering poachers ?

Mickeroo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

For me violence is never justifiable and that fact that so many think it is makes me worry for society.

Meh, we wouldn't have a free society without having to use violence to get it at some point.

PK2008

Violence is only justified where unjustifiable violence is already present and cannot be subdued by non violent means

GFJD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUHpts1L-Y

losthorizon

michael999999 wrote: »

I suppose when british soldiers are shooting innocent people, and terrorising them because they simply play GAA some people have no choice.

I heard Joe Kirnan Armaghs old manager on Newstalks Off the Ball Thursday night. Said when he was a teenager british soldiers dragged him at gunpoint out of hes car, made him sit on a bridge facing the water.

They had him sit there for 10 mins with hes eyes closed, he was convinsed they were going to push him off and make it look like suicide, only a man pulled up in a car and asked what is going on.

All this because when they stopped the car they seen hes GAA bag on the back seat.

As he said himself, no one in the south can judge because no one down here will ever know the misery they were put through, simply for being Catholic.

What then do you make of the IRAs campaign against Protestants in South Armagh. Or their killing of FG Senator Billy Fox in Monaghan simply because he was a protestant. After Killing him they threw the families bibles in the fire.

GFJD

losthorizon wrote: »

What then do you make of the IRAs campaign against Protestants in South Armagh. Or their killing of FG Senator Billy Fox in Monaghan simply because he was a protestant. After Killing him they threw the families bibles in the fire.

We dont want to go down that road you want this thread to go chara.

We could go tit-for-tat with incidents and tragedy from boths sides. At the end of the day , peace and democracy has prefailed and will continue to prevail in the future. Lets all move on eh and let the electorate decide. You will get plenty of oppurtunity to VOTE for your opinions in the future. If that means, that you will vote for the anti-republican candidates from whatever party , then thats your perogative and good luck to ya.

Baked.noodle

Violence is a fact of everyday life. It is present in times of peace and times of war. The legitimacy of the state was born out of violence, and it's legitimacy is sustained by it's monopoly on violence. We may strive for peace but peace will only be maintained with the use of violence. Having said this, the will of the people uphold the legitimacy of the the states monopoly on violence. The legitimate overthrow of the state (and it's monopoly on violence) can only be undertaken by the people. The state, and the people, cannot renounce violence.

Chuck Stone

Dudess wrote: »

I think people are so caught up in obsessing about the world becoming politically correct bogged down by health and safety, when it isn't really, and often the term is being misused.

FYP :pac:

Feisar

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

For me violence is never justifiable and that fact that so many think it is makes me worry for society.

I do think though that sometimes it is easy to see why violence occurred. For instance recently my cousin told be about a talk she'd been by a man who'd almost joined the IRA at the height of the Troubles. He considered it after watching soldiers come into his home and break his mother's knees.

I do not and never will condone the IRA, they are terrorists. But I can understand why so many young men were driven to join.

So not justifiable but in some cases understandable.

I'd don't know, I wasn't there or involved but I would think a lot of people joined after instances like this. Can't really blame someone for it but instead of protecting loved ones people end up planting bombs in England.

And again as in other threads I find it strange that you condemn the IRA but not the British government. I sovereign western states seem to get a free pass when it comes to acts of terror. Bombs from planes do the same damage as bombs in cars.