Barrister to Solicitor

Lorelai

Hi there

Quick question re Kings Inns. I am currently working as a legal executive. Have a law degree and would like to get a professional qualification.

Wondering about the Barrister to solicitor route. I don't really fancy being a trainee and the Law Society course sounds very dry.

Does one become a barrister after the year course? Do you have to devil (if say one decided not to practice ever but work in another legal/in house capacity)? Is there no better word than "one" to substitute in the last sentences? Is it frowned upon not to devil?

Many thanks

Milk & Honey

The degree of barrister at law may be awarded after two years part time or one year full time in the kings inns. With the degree comes the entitlement to apply for a call to the bar by the Chief Justice. After this a person can style themselves Barrister at Law.
In order to become a member of the Law Library a new entrant must undertake to devil for a year.
Many people only go as far as the call to the bar and then work in areas unrelated to law or take up in-house employment in legal roles.
To transfer to solicitor a person must have three years practise as a barrister so it would mean devilling for a year and practise for two years afterwards.
The question should be phrased :- is there a better word that "one" to substitute in the last sentences?

dats_right

Lorelai wrote: »

Hi there

Wondering about the Barrister to solicitor route. I don't really fancy being a trainee and the Law Society course sounds very dry.

Many thanks

It seems that you want the qualification of being a lawyer without the hassle of putting the slog in to get there. I don't know much about short cuts but I should think that they would be seen for what they are by employers.

The only short cut i know is the new york bar. Have you got a law degree? If so you can do the ny bar. Alternatively, you could look at the qualification process in some banana republic somewhere which permits you to qualify without the usual incovenient norms such as a training contract.

johnnyskeleton

If you want to continue working as a legal executive, qualifying as a barrister is probably not a good idea. Your current boss might take the view that you are planning to leave, and any other potential boss might think you are just looking to make contacts and are not really interested in working as a legal exec.

Lorelai

I don't want to work as a legal exec for the rest of my life. I do want a professional qualification with as little hassle as possible - I mean life is too short. I have a first class honours degree from a non-banana republic Irish university and a masters so I am no stranger to graft. Thanks to those of you who had helpful comments.

johnnyskeleton

Lorelai wrote: »

I don't want to work as a legal exec for the rest of my life. I do want a professional qualification with as little hassle as possible - I mean life is too short. I have a first class honours degree from a non-banana republic Irish university and a masters so I am no stranger to graft. Thanks to those of you who had helpful comments.

To what end? Career wise, what do you want to do? If barrister, go the kinns inns route. If solicitor, go the blackhall route.

If you want a professional qualification that is recognised abroad, afaik most orther countries require pqe in addition to the qualification. So back to square 1 above for 3-5 years. Ditto if you wish to qualify as a barrister and do the conversion course, you need 3 years pqe.

If you are banking on the professions being merged in future and that the kings inns would be a better way to qualify as a new "lawyer", there is no guaranteethat this will happen any time soon (if ever).

If you want to practice abroad end of, I'd suggest you get your professional qualification there.

People on this thread are trying to point out to you that the qualification is linked to the branch of the legal profession you want to enter into, and that getting a qualification for a qualifications sake could be an expensive mistake for you.

But now you have been given the info, you can make your mind up yourself.

Lorelai

I'd like to be a barrister, but I have been told by friends in the profession that it is not a good idea as there are already too many barristers (and the same can most likely be said about solicitors), so I was hoping to get a sense of where that would leave me if I went ahead and found that to be the case.

I didn't realise that you had to practice for 3 years as a barrister to convert, I thought it was enough to work in some legal capacity, so that's helpful thanks.

No.2

Lorelai wrote: »

I'd like to be a barrister, but I have been told by friends in the profession that it is not a good idea as there are already too many barristers (and the same can most likely be said about solicitors), so I was hoping to get a sense of where that would leave me if I went ahead and found that to be the case.

I didn't realise that you had to practice for 3 years as a barrister to convert, I thought it was enough to work in some legal capacity, so that's helpful thanks.

You're correct as far as I'm aware. I haven't got a copy of the consolidated solrs acts but here's the reference from the Law Society's website:

Who is eligible to apply [to become a solicitor where qualified as a barrister]?
A person who has been called to the Bar of Ireland and for a minimum of three years has:

• practised as a barrister in the State
• been a member of the Judiciary
• been employed in the provision of services of a legal nature and/or
• been employed by the State in the provision of services of a legal nature

johnnyskeleton

No.2 wrote: »

You're correct as far as I'm aware. I haven't got a copy of the consolidated solrs acts but here's the reference from the Law Society's website:

Who is eligible to apply [to become a solicitor where qualified as a barrister]?
A person who has been called to the Bar of Ireland and for a minimum of three years has:

• practised as a barrister in the State
• been a member of the Judiciary
• been employed in the provision of services of a legal nature and/or
• been employed by the State in the provision of services of a legal nature

Interesting.

(6) For the purposes of this section, service by a person as a member of the judiciary in the State, or as a barrister in the full-time service of the State or as a barrister in employment shall be deemed to be practice as a barrister.
(7) In this section—
‘barrister in employment’ means a barrister who satisfies the Society in the prescribed manner that he has been engaged, under a contract of employment with an employer, full-time in the provision of services of a legal nature for a prescribed period (not exceeding three years) at such time or times as may be prescribed;
‘barrister in the full-time service of the State’ means a barrister who is required to devote the whole of his time to the service of the State in the provision of services of a legal nature and is remunerated for such service wholly out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas.

Not sure work as a legal executive counts, it seems to relate to in house counsel type roles.

I could be wrong though. I was always given to understand that it was 3 years of one before transferring to the other. I suppose the real question is if you practice for 3 years as a solicitor, convert to barrister, don't like barristerrin', do you then have to wait 3 further years to transfer back?

234

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I suppose the real question is if you practice for 3 years as a solicitor, convert to barrister, don't like barristerrin', do you then have to wait 3 further years to transfer back?

Why would you have to wait another 3 years? You would still be a solicitor as well as being a barrister.

dats_right

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Interesting.
Not sure work as a legal executive counts, it seems to relate to in house counsel type roles.

That was my understanding too, particularly as the role of a 'Legal Executive' is so ambiguous and open to very wide interpretations. In many cases, a legal executive performs a responsible role supporting solicitors and performs some of the functions of a solicitor. However, in a lot of other cases it is merely a title and is applied to mean anything from the guy who opens the post and does a bit of law clerking to an uppity secretary who cannot accept that she is just a secretary.

Grolschevik

dats_right wrote: »

That was my understanding too, particularly as the role of a 'Legal Executive' is so ambiguous and open to very wide interpretations. In many cases, a legal executive performs a responsible role supporting solicitors and performs some of the functions of a solicitor. However, in a lot of other cases it is merely a title and is applied to mean anything from the person who opens the post and does a bit of law clerking to an uppity secretary who cannot accept that he/she is just a secretary.

Just because...!:)

But I think legal execs -- even those accredited/trained/members of (whatever) the legal exec institute -- aren't engaged in the provision of "legal services" in the relevant sense.

Lorelai

Presumably though if you got the BL qualification you could then try to get a job which would be considered the provision of legal services?

johnnyskeleton

234 wrote: »

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I suppose the real question is if you practice for 3 years as a solicitor, convert to barrister, don't like barristerrin', do you then have to wait 3 further years to transfer back?

Why would you have to wait another 3 years? You would still be a solicitor as well as being a barrister.

You have to come off the roll of solicitors to become a barrister, and have to be disbarred to become a solicitor

johnnyskeleton

Lorelai wrote: »

Presumably though if you got the BL qualification you could then try to get a job which would be considered the provision of legal services?

Absolutely, although it is not entirely clear what that means. It could mean in house counsel or could mean any legal type service job.

234

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You have to come off the roll of solicitors to become a barrister, and have to be disbarred to become a solicitor

Thanks for correcting me. Just noticed the recipriocal provision in s51 of the 1994 Act.

impr0v

In my experience some of the larger firms will hire you to work in an equivalent capacity to a solicitor, with a BL degree. In that sense, it can operate as a shortcut to going to Blackhall - which I think is what you were originally asking. You would eventually have to transfer before you became partner.

Of course, taking the shortcut at the moment would likely just mean that you'd be out into a dead jobs market two years earlier than if you had gone to Blackhall (ignoring the fact that you would need to have secured a traineeship before going to Blackhall and would therefore be in employment). A prospective employer with a lot of choice might prefer a qualified solicitor to someone with a BL, though your legal exec experience may level the playing field.

There was talk about the legal services bill making it easier to transfer from one side of the fence to the other. I haven't read it to see if the proposals have made it into the bill.

celticd

Make sure the degree you possess and the institution which granted it are recognised by the kings inns